Half of Detroiters illiterate?

[Jimaz]

....At least give you news casters a quick lesson in how to pronounce the street names before you turn them loose as traffic reporters.

I recall hearing that there is some book of standard pronunciations intended to guide public speakers. You'd think professionals would keep a copy of it right there by the microphone. Every microphone should have one.

Here's an interesting alternative solution to that problem: HowToPronounce. It's a crowdsourced project that plays the sound of multiple pronunciations in multiple languages and ranks them. Anyone can participate so there's a risk of vandalism as with Wikipedia but in general it's a useful resource.

I can get lost in there. Everyone should bookmark it.

[jcole]

Just did; thanks.

I recall hearing that there is some book of standard pronunciations intended to guide public speakers. You'd think professionals would keep a copy of it right there by the microphone. Every microphone should have one.

Here's an interesting alternative solution to that problem: HowToPronounce. It's a crowdsourced project that plays the sound of multiple pronunciations in multiple languages and ranks them. Anyone can participate so there's a risk of vandalism as with Wikipedia but in general it's a useful resource.

I can get lost in there. Everyone should bookmark it.

[Ray1936]

Worst I've heard here in Vegas was a local weathercaster noting that there were thunderstorms in "Charlie vox" Michigan.

[Former_Detroiter]

Worst I've heard here in Vegas was a local weathercaster noting that there were thunderstorms in "Charlie vox" Michigan.

Many Detroiters don't pronounce many of the street names in their own city correctly. Charlevoix is just one of them. I have yet to hear Detroit pronounced correctly.

[Rocket]

Many Detroiters don't pronounce many of the street names in their own city correctly. Charlevoix is just one of them. I have yet to hear Detroit pronounced correctly.

day-TWAH?

I've yet to hear anyone pronounce 'because' correctly, so I have little hope for the rest of it.

[Honky Tonk]

day-TWAH?

I've yet to hear anyone pronounce 'because' correctly, so I have little hope for the rest of it.

Correct. Just like Dubois isn't pronounced "doo-boys" but "doob-wah".

[jcole]

There is correct in French or correct by Detroit traditionally. Like Gratiot; no one here says "Grashow" but we say "Grashit" not Grati-ot. I don't expect every stranger to know how to say it but I do expect newscasters, weathercasters and traffic people to say "Grashit" if they are based here. And DeTROIT, not DeeeTroit. That's like saying Eyetalian

[13606Cedargrove]

There is correct in French or correct by Detroit traditionally. Like Gratiot; no one here says "Grashow" but we say "Grashit" not Grati-ot. I don't expect every stranger to know how to say it but I do expect newscasters, weathercasters and traffic people to say "Grashit" if they are based here. And DeTROIT, not DeeeTroit. That's like saying Eyetalian

Excellent response. English is hard to learn because one must learn to mispronounce correctly. Place names are a good example. Charlotte, Michigan and Charlotte, North Carolina are pronounced two different ways. Many place names in the British Isles are pronounced not even closely with the letters that spell them out.

[Jimaz]

.... English is hard to learn because one must learn to mispronounce correctly....

There's an interesting sentence. Now I'm trying to imagine how to mispronounce incorrectly. <brain cramp>

[Henry Whalley]

There's an interesting sentence. Now I'm trying to imagine how to mispronounce incorrectly. <brain cramp>

Rectally. IN-KOREA-RECTALLY. And roll the rr, as in Latin.

That's the proper way to mispronounce incorrectly, but it's no cure for a brain cramp. Only a long dry brain fart will cure that.

[canuck]

Funny thing is, in Montreal, even born and bred newsfolk might pronounce French and English words incorrectly when in the other language. The suburb of Longueuil is pronounced Long-gale as opposed to Long-goy [[close approximation) by English speakers for like ever. French speakers mispronounce English place names also.

[Henry Whalley]

Only a long dry brain fart will cure that.

Worst case scenario -- a wet brain fart will cure brain cramps.
The danger being that one may take to reading Ayn Rand.

[jcole]

Worst case scenario -- a wet brain fart will cure brain cramps.
The danger being that one may take to reading Ayn Rand.

[Richard]

Excellent response. English is hard to learn because one must learn to mispronounce correctly. Place names are a good example. Charlotte, Michigan and Charlotte, North Carolina are pronounced two different ways. Many place names in the British Isles are pronounced not even closely with the letters that spell them out.

and if you live in North Carolina it could be pronounced Nath Caralina.

It’s interesting,from the start schools teach spelling by sounding words out but most are not pronounced as they spelled.

[night-timer]

There have been a few Youtube documentaries about illiteracy and Detroit's troubled high schools, and they're not behind a pay-wall, even if they are a few years old. This is a good one, which I have watched several times:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xypiZ-hqdY&t=1471s

Watch out though, I think Nolan Finley puts in an appearance at one point...

Check out these, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plgG3bO_79w

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...oit+bankruptcy

[Richard]

Not for nothing but inner city schools had had issues sense the 60s,if Detroit could solve that problem it would be the only city in the country that could.

[Henry Whalley]

...inner city schools had had issues sense the 60s...

There was no inner city. In the 1960s, Detroit was one of the most prosperous cities in the world with good public transportation, good schools, etc. You must be thinking of some other city.

[Richard]

There was no inner city. In the 1960s, Detroit was one of the most prosperous cities in the world with good public transportation, good schools, etc. You must be thinking of some other city.

A moment in history that sealed the Detroit schools' fate

The Michigan Legislature stepped in and passed a law that Senator Coleman Young sponsored. Young was later Detroit’s first black mayor.
The law did give more neighborhood control over schools, but it also legalized segregation in the Detroit schools by allowing white kids to leave their neighborhood school that had a growing black population and transfer to one that was more white and vice versa.

https://www.michiganradio.org/educat...t-schools-fate

Map: Inferior Education in Detroit 1960


At that time over half of the city was 15% below the national average.

[Dumpling]

I can't immediately find out how many Detroiters take the GED test every year and what percentage pass the test every year. The Michigan pass rate is 60% or higher. A few years back the testing center powers that be did not like the 60% pass rate nor did they appreciate the fewer numbers of test takers that went with that, so the pass score was lowered to where they liked it as a mirror of achievement rather than a barrier to entry.

https://www.towncharts.com/Michigan/...tion-data.html

There is a subchart in the above showing that a majority of Detroiters have either graduated high school, passed a GED test, or taken some college.

The combination of those Detroiters who have neither graduated from high school nor passed a GED test nor even received an education in the first place is about 18%. So it is possible that up to 18% of Detroiters may still be marking an X for their signature, ordering dinners by means of pictures on restaurant menus, and requesting assistance from others to read.

Any claim higher than 18% for illiteracy for Detroiters needs to be clarified and substantiated. Educational attainments are lower for Detroiters than for other metro Detroiters on average but that is not the same as illiteracy.

[313WX]

I don't pay to read behind the News' paywall because I won't subsidize comatose persistent vegetative state [PVS] hacks like Nolan Finley. But will someone who has access, please paraphrase this opinion piece Dumas: Half of Detroiters illiterate? We need action [[detroitnews.com)

"Functionally Illiterate" would be more accurate...

[313WX]

There was no inner city. In the 1960s, Detroit was one of the most prosperous cities in the world with good public transportation, good schools, etc. You must be thinking of some other city.

You must be thinking of a different Detroit, or being sarcastic.

By the 60s, Detroit's population/economic decline was well underway [[albeit not at the accelerated pace that it took place in the 70s) and the streetcar system had long been gutted.

Why do you think the riots that decade were so much more severe in Detroit?

[Henry Whalley]

You must be thinking of a different Detroit, or being sarcastic.

Certainly, one of us is thinking of a different place. In your opinion, where was the "inner city" of Detroit in 1965-66?

[313WX]

where was the "inner city" of Detroit in 1965-66?

"Inner city" is a euphemism for specific lower income and/or majority-minority neighborhoods in a big city that are rundown and/or plagued with social problems.

Historically, these neighborhoods tended to be closest to the center of a big city [[though not always), thus explaining the "inner" part of "inner city."

Are you suggesting a town as big/diverse as Detroit in the 1960s didn't have such neighborhoods?

[Richard]

Certainly, one of us is thinking of a different place. In your opinion, where was the "inner city" of Detroit in 1965-66?

I posted the map - by 1965-1966 the freeways had already torn apart the established majority African American neighborhoods,so according to the map a majority of the city became an inner city of a depressed school system.

If you are young then it might be hard to understand terms that were applied as white flight occurred,inner city was exactly what it says,the circle of African American residents that surrounded the still remaining downtown businesses at that time others that could afford it still lived in the outskirts of the city but still within the city boundaries.

You keep moving the goal posts though,now it is the time frame of 65-66 when Detroit city school issues can be traced back to the 1800s.

But it is irrelevant,Detroit school system has no different ills then any other low income inner city or city for that matter,because inner cities in that sense do not exist anymore,public schools are underfunded or starving for capital for a mountain of reasons,the only common denominator they have is the administration building is always a brand new multi million dollar facility while the class rooms need paint.

That and the amount of people being arrested after stealing millions from the schools.

Growing up I had a friend who’s father was in the family business,to toughen his kids up he dropped them off everyday at an all black school in downtown Minneapolis,they got their ass beat everyday until they became tough.

At that time you did not even go into downtown if you were white without having some sort of self protection,even the workers.

The Ford assembly plant there looked like a prison,not to keep people in but to keep them out.

In contrast I went to an all white school in the suburbs with 2000 other students and never saw a fight on school grounds if you wanted to fight you had to make arrangements after school and away from school grounds.

It begs to question and still happens today because I have a majority African American school 6 blocks from me where the police are constantly being called to because of the level of violence all during the school day.

I think you can throw all the money you want at a school system and it is just pissing money away until you deal with the cultural issues.

Poverty and level of funding has zero impact in the bigger picture because there are schools in the poorest countries in the world that still does not have electricity and running water but yet they still educate the students without the violence and distractions.

They do not have shoes as they go home to their dirt shacks that also do not have power or water,but they speak multiple languages,can read and write fluently by the 5th grade,it does them zero amount of good but they still do it.

People hate to admit it but de segregation was the worst thing that happened to the African American communities,when you look at African American communities before that they were strong communities that looked after each other with viable businesses and everybody took care of each other,they were strong communities that actually rivaled many all white communities.

They were fine on their own until people and the government decided to step in and tell them what was best for them like they were incapable of thinking for themselves.

Nothing to do with actual schools but a couple of nights back there was another shooting at the already internet famous Chucky Cheese by my house,it a place where kids are supposed to be safe and have a good time and yes it is a majority African American clientele.

I kinda think sooner or later the African Americans as a community need to step up to the plate,it’s not the so called white mans job to fix this,so why pretend to think we can,until that happens you are not going to fix school systems just as they have not been able to do so for decades.

People can come together as a community in support or try to but really it is like trying to help a drunk,until he or she or them decides they want to change,you will never change them.

The constitution calls for every American citizen to be treated equally all these laws implemented to force change or recognition are by nature purposely trying to divide people into groups and cause problems just so people can get paid or elected to solve them,which they never do because it is job security.

[canuck]

I posted the map - by 1965-1966 the freeways had already torn apart the established majority African American neighborhoods,so according to the map a majority of the city became an inner city of a depressed school system.

If you are young then it might be hard to understand terms that were applied as white flight occurred,inner city was exactly what it says,the circle of African American residents that surrounded the still remaining downtown businesses at that time others that could afford it still lived in the outskirts of the city but still within the city boundaries.

You keep moving the goal posts though,now it is the time frame of 65-66 when Detroit city school issues can be traced back to the 1800s.

But it is irrelevant,Detroit school system has no different ills then any other low income inner city or city for that matter,because inner cities in that sense do not exist anymore,public schools are underfunded or starving for capital for a mountain of reasons,the only common denominator they have is the administration building is always a brand new multi million dollar facility while the class rooms need paint.

That and the amount of people being arrested after stealing millions from the schools.

Growing up I had a friend who’s father was in the family business,to toughen his kids up he dropped them off everyday at an all black school in downtown Minneapolis,they got their ass beat everyday until they became tough.

At that time you did not even go into downtown if you were white without having some sort of self protection,even the workers.

The Ford assembly plant there looked like a prison,not to keep people in but to keep them out.

In contrast I went to an all white school in the suburbs with 2000 other students and never saw a fight on school grounds if you wanted to fight you had to make arrangements after school and away from school grounds.

It begs to question and still happens today because I have a majority African American school 6 blocks from me where the police are constantly being called to because of the level of violence all during the school day.

I think you can throw all the money you want at a school system and it is just pissing money away until you deal with the cultural issues.

Poverty and level of funding has zero impact in the bigger picture because there are schools in the poorest countries in the world that still does not have electricity and running water but yet they still educate the students without the violence and distractions.

They do not have shoes as they go home to their dirt shacks that also do not have power or water,but they speak multiple languages,can read and write fluently by the 5th grade,it does them zero amount of good but they still do it.

People hate to admit it but de segregation was the worst thing that happened to the African American communities,when you look at African American communities before that they were strong communities that looked after each other with viable businesses and everybody took care of each other,they were strong communities that actually rivaled many all white communities.

They were fine on their own until people and the government decided to step in and tell them what was best for them like they were incapable of thinking for themselves.

Nothing to do with actual schools but a couple of nights back there was another shooting at the already internet famous Chucky Cheese by my house,it a place where kids are supposed to be safe and have a good time and yes it is a majority African American clientele.

I kinda think sooner or later the African Americans as a community need to step up to the plate,it’s not the so called white mans job to fix this,so why pretend to think we can,until that happens you are not going to fix school systems just as they have not been able to do so for decades.

People can come together as a community in support or try to but really it is like trying to help a drunk,until he or she or them decides they want to change,you will never change them.

The constitution calls for every American citizen to be treated equally all these laws implemented to force change or recognition are by nature purposely trying to divide people into groups and cause problems just so people can get paid or elected to solve them,which they never do because it is job security.

So, your school lunch program ain’t worth a dang at the end of the day, eh Richard?