Interstate 375 to be transformed into street level boulevard

[erikd]

My understanding was that the choice was only to repair I-375 which was at the end of it's designed life or re-imagine it. Lots of money was to be spent in either case and getting rid of it seems the most sensible plan.

This is correct. I-375 is at the end of it's lifespan, and it either needs to be completely rebuilt in its current form, or be rebuilt in a different form. It is not only less expensive to rebuild it as a surface street, but it will also cost much less to maintain it in that configuration going forward.

[mwilbert]

As an Eastsider, I feel slighted by this project. They are closing freeway access to downtown for the East Side only.

You feel how you feel, but it's not like you can't get downtown on a freeway without 375, you are literally at Ford Field when it splits off 75. When the time comes I think they should remove the section of the Lodge below the Fisher as well, and I guess equity would then be restored.

[royce]

I know that part of I-375 and I-75 wiped out Hastings Street and displaced African Americans from businesses and residences. My question is, "Do we have proof/documentation that black businesses and black residences were illegally obtained? Was "eminent domain" used or were properties given their fair market value and owners accepted? Also, who were the owners? Did African Americans own most of the properties in Black Bottom and Paradise Valley or did people mostly rent?

I went to many of the meetings seeking input from the public on how to best redo the area. During several of the meetings, some African Americans would ask if black families were going to have opportunities to purchase land along the proposed boulevard. How would you go about rectifying that?

Another public meeting is going to be held today April 19, 2023 at Eastern Market Shed #3 starting at 4 pm. My question now is now that the federal government has stepped in with 100 million dollars and a focus on "righting the wrongs of the past" through an 'equitable' manner, what changes will MDOT make on this project?

[Seven&wyo]

I know that part of I-375 and I-75 wiped out Hastings Street and displaced African Americans from businesses and residences. My question is, "Do we have proof/documentation that black businesses and black residences were illegally obtained? Was "eminent domain" used or were properties given their fair market value and owners accepted? Also, who were the owners? Did African Americans own most of the properties in Black Bottom and Paradise Valley or did people mostly rent?

I went to many of the meetings seeking input from the public on how to best redo the area. During several of the meetings, some African Americans would ask if black families were going to have opportunities to purchase land along the proposed boulevard. How would you go about rectifying that?

Another public meeting is going to be held today April 19, 2023 at Eastern Market Shed #3 starting at 4 pm. My question now is now that the federal government has stepped in with 100 million dollars and a focus on "righting the wrongs of the past" through an 'equitable' manner, what changes will MDOT make on this project?

Should people now be prosecuted for the sins of the past[[whether it be through taxes or cutting them from bidding on property) for people of the past? No that’s retarded stop treating people with kid gloves because of the color of their skin. Christ…

[southen]

Should people now be prosecuted for the sins of the past[[whether it be through taxes or cutting them from bidding on property) for people of the past? No that’s retarded stop treating people with kid gloves because of the color of their skin. Christ…

Always the sign of intelligence when someone uses the word retarded.

Like a stone tossed into a pond the ripple effects of the sins of our past still impact people today. There should be attempts made to rectify those things. The debate should be of "How?" and not if we should. I-375 deliberately targeted and destroyed a thriving African American enclave, yet nothing should be done to acknowledge that going forward? We aren't going back to slavery, there are people alive today who were impacted by this policy then.

Christ....

[Seven&wyo]

Always the sign of intelligence when someone uses the word retarded.

Like a stone tossed into a pond the ripple effects of the sins of our past still impact people today. There should be attempts made to rectify those things. The debate should be of "How?" and not if we should. I-375 deliberately targeted and destroyed a thriving African American enclave, yet nothing should be done to acknowledge that going forward? We aren't going back to slavery, there are people alive today who were impacted by this policy then.

Christ....

Yes but where does that end and where does it begin? Should we go back to see which tribes African Americans are from to decide which deserve more “attention”? No. Should we help the Italians and polish and Irish for being discriminated against in the early 1900’s? No. should Africans[[because people like you group an entire continent of people into one group) repay Europeans for enslaving them at one point in history? No. No one today has been impacted by by the freeway expansion they’re all dead or very old and have moved on and their families have moved on as well assuming they were effected at all. My good man you have to think harder or else I might have to call you a retard.

[K-slice]

I know that part of I-375 and I-75 wiped out Hastings Street and displaced African Americans from businesses and residences. My question is, "Do we have proof/documentation that black businesses and black residences were illegally obtained? Was "eminent domain" used or were properties given their fair market value and owners accepted? Also, who were the owners? Did African Americans own most of the properties in Black Bottom and Paradise Valley or did people mostly rent?

I went to many of the meetings seeking input from the public on how to best redo the area. During several of the meetings, some African Americans would ask if black families were going to have opportunities to purchase land along the proposed boulevard. How would you go about rectifying that?

Another public meeting is going to be held today April 19, 2023 at Eastern Market Shed #3 starting at 4 pm. My question now is now that the federal government has stepped in with 100 million dollars and a focus on "righting the wrongs of the past" through an 'equitable' manner, what changes will MDOT make on this project?

Many of the same questions I've asked that have never been answered. The principal of eminent domain goes back well into the 1800s so I assume all property owners were compensated at the time, despite the fact that the media never mentions this. As to finding out who the rightful owners were, that would take some doing.

Obviously the construction of the highways had severe ill effects all over the city that we're all aware of, but I always assume the destruction of these few specific blocks is way overblown by media just looking for a "paradise lost" story to tell.

[southen]

Yes but where does that end and where does it begin? Should we go back to see which tribes African Americans are from to decide which deserve more “attention”? No. Should we help the Italians and polish and Irish for being discriminated against in the early 1900’s? No. should Africans[[because people like you group an entire continent of people into one group) repay Europeans for enslaving them at one point in history? No. No one today has been impacted by by the freeway expansion they’re all dead or very old and have moved on and their families have moved on as well assuming they were effected at all. My good man you have to think harder or else I might have to call you a retard.

Critical thinking isn''t really a strong suit for you I guess. I never said it was simple but when it comes to I-375 specifically it is a bit more cut and dry, but I suspect that is why you dragged Europe into it and every other conservative talking point to avoid the issue. This isn't to counter racism, this is to counter racist policies implemented by the government to deliberately destroy a black neighborhood. Wealth is passed along in this country via family businesses and home ownership, but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

[Seven&wyo]

Critical thinking isn''t really a strong suit for you I guess. I never said it was simple but when it comes to I-375 specifically it is a bit more cut and dry, but I suspect that is why you dragged Europe into it and every other conservative talking point to avoid the issue. This isn't to counter racism, this is to counter racist policies implemented by the government to deliberately destroy a black neighborhood. Wealth is passed along in this country via family businesses and home ownership, but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

Wow you just completely missed the point of what I was saying. Bravo.

[masterblaster]

Many of the same questions I've asked that have never been answered. The principal of eminent domain goes back well into the 1800s so I assume all property owners were compensated at the time, despite the fact that the media never mentions this. As to finding out who the rightful owners were, that would take some doing.

Obviously the construction of the highways had severe ill effects all over the city that we're all aware of, but I always assume the destruction of these few specific blocks is way overblown by media just looking for a "paradise lost" story to tell.

I question your description of 'few specific blocks' to describe Black Bottom, most likely as a way to diminish this neighborhood and its size. Please see the links below. It was more than just a few blocks.

http://www.detroits-great-rebellion....~element66.jpg

To characterize Black Bottom as a 'thriving' neighborhood, as some publications have state, would probably be untrue; it was most likely a ghetto with old, substandard housing. But much of Corktown was built the same way.

[casscorridor]

Yes, the Chrysler Freeway, like other urban highways across the country, was incredibly destructive and should have never been build. But to claim that its removal will "right the wrongs of the past" is a false promise, as there is no righting that wrong.

Detroit is a completely different city now, there's no turning back the clock to the late 1950s. It's also easy to blame urban freeways for all Detroit's ills, but if the Chrysler was never built, that area might have very well still ended up looking like the surrounding prairies. Who are we to say?

The freeway removal should be pitched purely on how it will benefit the city as whole today and how it fits into a positive vision of the city's future, not some sort of reconciliation of past misdeeds that will only stir more resentment and division.

[kuuma]

did anyone here come down to the public comment event at the eastern market tonight? i listened to a lot of residents giving really thoughtful feedback on the minutiae of the design, and conversing with city officials, architects, and mdot reps. it seemed like a lot of the folks involved in revising the design were taking actual notes from residents and were generally open to feedback. some confrontational folks on both sides, but largely it felt like a constructive event. now to await the next revision and see what actually gets implemented..

[royce]

did anyone here come down to the public comment event at the eastern market tonight? i listened to a lot of residents giving really thoughtful feedback on the minutiae of the design, and conversing with city officials, architects, and mdot reps. it seemed like a lot of the folks involved in revising the design were taking actual notes from residents and were generally open to feedback. some confrontational folks on both sides, but largely it felt like a constructive event. now to await the next revision and see what actually gets implemented..

I attended, kuuma, and yes, the MDOT reps did take down notes. Now, whether or not any of the public's suggestions are seriously considered, remains to be seen. I enjoyed the video simulating what things will look like with the new design.

My biggest complaint, after watching the video, is that the new boulevard doesn't offer street parking on its east side, where new land will be available for redevelopment. If you're going to have possible retail, then there needs to be parking on the street and not in some side parking lot. Other than that, the new design looks doable.

[oladub]

I never said it was simple but when it comes to I-375 specifically it is a bit more cut and dry, but I suspect that is why you dragged Europe into it and every other conservative talking point to avoid the issue. This isn't to counter racism, this is to counter racist policies implemented by the government to deliberately destroy a black neighborhood. Wealth is passed along in this country via family businesses and home ownership, but you are telling me that a policy that targeted both of those things for a specific community has no lasting impact and nothing should be done to right that wrong?

In 1963, my step-mother's retired aunt was living on Evanston in Detroit and had to move because her house was condemned for I-94 a block away. So she moved in with us. At that time, It was all white east of Connors and so was Harper Woods, St. Clair Shores and Roseville. Yet the highway planners came through and targeted white housing and tore apart white neighborhoods in exactly the same way. Buttigieg is wasting money on the flakey premise that yesteryears' highway decisions were racist. The same money spent in any of those neighborhoods on education would have done more good. The expressways did hurt local store owners in both white and black neighborhoods but this is 60 years later. Those people are gone and neighborhoods have restructured themselves. Crossing a six lane road isn't going to be safer for children to cross than a pedestrian bridge. It isn't as if there isn't a shortage of vacant land already available to build all the things planned for this project.

This brings to mind FDR's investment in hydroelectric dams providing immediate employment. TVA dams, the Hoover Dam, and the Grand Coulee Dam have paid for themselves many times over and still provide inexpensive and clean electricity. Today's Democrats are tearing down FDR's hydro dams in the Pacific Northwest for rich anglers. I'm puzzled at whether destroying hydro electric dams or expressways is a more stupid reversion. This time its Democrats who are trying to bring back some idealized memories of the 50's.

[Gistok]

^Oladub, are you sure she moved in 1963? I lived on Marseilles [[not far from Morang)... and we moved there in 1960, and I could remember seeing I-94 completed all the way to 8 Mile. I remember seeing the wall of dirt where the freeway ended just beyond the I-94 8 Mile exit. Of course it could have been a little later than 1960.

I don't believe all freeways thru Detroit caused detrimental problems for the neighborhoods. Granted Black Bottom was destroyed, and lord knows how many areas were decimated by the wide swath of I-96 where the express/local lanes cleared out a huge section of the west side.

But our family moved to Marseilles for the main reason of the freeway access. And I-94 on the east side followed Harper Ave., without taking out many businesses, and I always thought that it was the best example of a freeway not affecting the neighborhoods it went thru. The east side flourished for decades after I-94 went thru. It wasn't the freeways that killed that part of the east side. It was the white flight circa 2000, and towards the city limits it was the Engler administrations removal of city residency that removed the "Copper Canyon" section of the east side, and city police, fire, and other city employees that left the city in droves that made other residents leave as well. My late mother didn't want to leave Marseilles St., and when she passed away in 2010, she was the last white person living on her block.

[oladub]

^Oladub, are you sure she moved in 1963? I lived on Marseilles [[not far from Morang)... and we moved there in 1960, and I could remember seeing I-94 completed all the way to 8 Mile. I remember seeing the wall of dirt where the freeway ended just beyond the I-94 8 Mile exit. Of course it could have been a little later than 1960.

I don't believe all freeways thru Detroit caused detrimental problems for the neighborhoods. Granted Black Bottom was destroyed, and lord knows how many areas were decimated by the wide swath of I-96 where the express/local lanes cleared out a huge section of the west side.

But our family moved to Marseilles for the main reason of the freeway access. And I-94 on the east side followed Harper Ave., without taking out many businesses, and I always thought that it was the best example of a freeway not affecting the neighborhoods it went thru. The east side flourished for decades after I-94 went thru. It wasn't the freeways that killed that part of the east side. It was the white flight circa 2000, and towards the city limits it was the Engler administrations removal of city residency that removed the "Copper Canyon" section of the east side, and city police, fire, and other city employees that left the city in droves that made other residents leave as well. My late mother didn't want to leave Marseilles St., and when she passed away in 2010, she was the last white person living on her block.

Yes, I'm pretty sure because that fall we moved from Farmbrook, two blocks from Marseilles, to a suburb. The sledding hill in Balduck Park was dirt from dug out expressways. That's another plus for the expressways. I wonder where the dirt will come form to fill in the part of the former expressway being brought up to street level.

My reservation, considering what you wrote, was that I looked up Evanston on Google Maps. Evanston ran parallel with Harper a block north of Harper and it looked to have been unaffected by the dig.I remember something about construction equipment thereabouts but it is a vague memory. I don't know or remember the time between her being told to move and her moving in I think in 1963-1964.

[K-slice]

I attended, kuuma, and yes, the MDOT reps did take down notes. Now, whether or not any of the public's suggestions are seriously considered, remains to be seen. I enjoyed the video simulating what things will look like with the new design.

My biggest complaint, after watching the video, is that the new boulevard doesn't offer street parking on its east side, where new land will be available for redevelopment. If you're going to have possible retail, then there needs to be parking on the street and not in some side parking lot. Other than that, the new design looks doable.

Is there a link you know of to view this material? It sounds like something new that I haven't seen.

As I wasn't able to go, hopefully someone brought up my main thought that the blvd as proposed is toooo wiiiide.

[southen]

In 1963, my step-mother's retired aunt was living on Evanston in Detroit and had to move because her house was condemned for I-94 a block away. So she moved in with us. At that time, It was all white east of Connors and so was Harper Woods, St. Clair Shores and Roseville. Yet the highway planners came through and targeted white housing and tore apart white neighborhoods in exactly the same way. Buttigieg is wasting money on the flakey premise that yesteryears' highway decisions were racist. The same money spent in any of those neighborhoods on education would have done more good. The expressways did hurt local store owners in both white and black neighborhoods but this is 60 years later. Those people are gone and neighborhoods have restructured themselves. Crossing a six lane road isn't going to be safer for children to cross than a pedestrian bridge. It isn't as if there isn't a shortage of vacant land already available to build all the things planned for this project.

This brings to mind FDR's investment in hydroelectric dams providing immediate employment. TVA dams, the Hoover Dam, and the Grand Coulee Dam have paid for themselves many times over and still provide inexpensive and clean electricity. Today's Democrats are tearing down FDR's hydro dams in the Pacific Northwest for rich anglers. I'm puzzled at whether destroying hydro electric dams or expressways is a more stupid reversion. This time its Democrats who are trying to bring back some idealized memories of the 50's.

There are scholars who have written on this topic ad nauseam but you got an issue with Democrats so I guess it never happened.

[Seven&wyo]

There are scholars who have written on this topic ad nauseam but you got an issue with Democrats so I guess it never happened.

Aha “It’s been studied by scholars guys trust me” pathetic as usual.

[kuuma]

As I wasn't able to go, hopefully someone brought up my main thought that the blvd as proposed is toooo wiiiide.

sticky notes covered the maps of every station about it being too wide, so there's definitely a critical mass of residents who share your sentiments. i went back and forth with the mdot project manager for a solid 20 minutes about how it's unnecessary to have two left turn lanes at every single southbound light, and that they're vastly overestimating the number of lanes needed. he was convinced they're needed to keep event traffic from backing up, and it seemed so much rationale was paid to event traffic overall, but i'm hoping the groundswell of feedback from people living in the area gave him pause on that matter.

[Danny]

Might as well bring back Paradise Valley Commercial District, too. First time in history to covert a freeway to a boulevard.

Let's called it Hastings Bvld.

[southen]

Aha “It’s been studied by scholars guys trust me” pathetic as usual.

From the "everyone did slavery and racism is over" guy? Yes. Pathetic. The right wing push back against academia and expertise is both hilarious and sad.

[Seven&wyo]

From the "everyone did slavery and racism is over" guy? Yes. Pathetic. The right wing push back against academia and expertise is both hilarious and sad.

Well let’s see bro. Post some links, articles, papers don’t just sit there and act like that’s enough. We’ve been over this many time on this forum you need to think

[southen]

Well let’s see bro. Post some links, articles, papers don’t just sit there and act like that’s enough. We’ve been over this many time on this forum you need to think

I gotta teach you how to google? There are countless articles and papers on the subject. dO YoUr OwN rEseArcH. Bro.

[Seven&wyo]

I gotta teach you how to google? There are countless articles and papers on the subject. dO YoUr OwN rEseArcH. Bro.

“Scholars and academics are on my side guys even though I can’t even regurgitate any of their points even a little they’re on my side” Everytime you and I have a little back and forth you some how sink lower at the end.