Ex-Urban Water Crisis

[Danny]

First, the Flint Water Crisis not the new water crisis way out the ex-urbs. A water main break has affected water supply from Rochester Hills as far as Almeda. A boil water advisory is in effect. It will be weeks before the water can restore.

Can you see the difference between the Flint Water Crisis and the water crisis in the ex-urban communities?

Here is the source.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...-need-to-know/

[Jimaz]

They don't yet know the root cause of this current water main break so it's difficult to compare with the Flint tragedy.

I live in the affected area and, as fate would have it, I'm in the process of swapping in a new stove that isn't connected yet. The fickle finger of fate has declared that Jimaz shall not boil water! But I had some clean water in stock and was able to snag 24 x 500 ml bottles of water courtesy of the State of Michigan so my meager needs are met.

I never noticed a drop in pressure so I'm a bit skeptical whether I really have a problem. So I got to thinking. The boundaries between affected and unaffected areas are drawn along coarse city and township boundaries. I doubt the water pressure problem follows those boundaries exactly. Only households whose pressure drops below 20 PSI need to be concerned. It would be nice to have a meter on each household's water line that recorded the lowest pressure in the most recent 24 hours and maybe set off an alarm if necessary.

I confess I am a recovering compulsive ponderer.

[Scottathew]

The boundaries between affected and unaffected areas are drawn along coarse city and township boundaries. I doubt the water pressure problem follows those boundaries exactly. Only households whose pressure drops below 20 PSI need to be concerned. It would be nice to have a meter on each household's water line that recorded the lowest pressure in the most recent 24 hours and maybe set off an alarm if necessary.

I confess I am a recovering compulsive ponderer.

Good questions. Here's some insight that I have:

Surprisingly, these systems generally do follow municipal boundaries. GLWA cities generally maintain their own local distribution systems and have a few interface points with GLWA where they have pressure-reducing valves to take the REALLY HIGH GLWA pressure and reduce it down to a pressure that won't break their local distribution systems.

20 PSI matters, and it matters for the entire journey of the water. Why? Because water pipes are a little leaky. Not super-duper leaky, we call super-duper leaks "breaks". So if we maintain enough pressure in the system the water will leak from inside of the pipes out. If we don't maintain enough pressure the stuff outside of the pipes might leak in.

So while you might have proper pressure at your house, it might not matter if there was a part of the system that the water travelled through the did not have proper pressure.

[Scottathew]

They don't yet know the root cause of this current water main break so it's difficult to compare with the Flint tragedy.

Here's a picture of the break. That's a 120 inch diameter pipe, TEN FEET. It's McLarge Huge.




Here's a picture of people standing next to a replacement section for the pipe [trigger warning, they're democrats]:

[Jimaz]

....So while you might have proper pressure at your house, it might not matter if there was a part of the system that the water traveled through the did not have proper pressure.

Good answers! Thanks for explaining that. It makes sense.

[Jimaz]

Argh! More damage detected. They added another week to the estimate. Now they're expecting a fix in three rather than two weeks.

To be fair, they did warn that might happen.

[Jimaz]

Okay, my new stove is now installed, connected and tested. I also have a new supply of clean bottled water that's more than adequate so I'm all set.

The question remains: Is there a more refined way to react to these problems without relying on guidance from a governmental body whose analyses may be constrained to coarse municipal boundaries?

I'm looking for ways that individual households can make decisions confidently.

I understand that there are bacteriological tests that require 48 hours before results are known. If an individual household could perform those tests and stockpile a batch of potentially potable water over that 48-hour period, the results would indicate whether or not that stockpile was, or was not, potable.

Why don't we try that?

Edit: Or at least start trying to move toward that?

[Richard]

Okay, my new stove is now installed, connected and tested. I also have a new supply of clean bottled water that's more than adequate so I'm all set.

The question remains: Is there a more refined way to react to these problems without relying on guidance from a governmental body whose analyses may be constrained to coarse municipal boundaries?

I'm looking for ways that individual households can make decisions confidently.

I understand that there are bacteriological tests that require 48 hours before results are known. If an individual household could perform those tests and stockpile a batch of potentially potable water over that 48-hour period, the results would indicate whether or not that stockpile was, or was not, potable.

Why don't we try that?

Edit: Or at least start trying to move toward that?

You can figure out how to fix a broken web site but not how to boil water without a stove?

Did you know that you can take a cup of water out of a mud puddle,add 2 drops of bleach,shake it up and safely drink it ?

You have a 30 - 40 gallon water heater,it has a hose bib on the bottom where you can connect a garden hose to it,add a few drops of bleach and have 40 gallons of potable water.

They say the average person uses 10 gallons of water per day,people trying to save the planet but buying 1000s of plastic bottles of water - that leach toxic chemicals into the water when they become warm.

Stay tuned for next week when we bring you more life hacks that make you independent of others decisions and more self reliant.

By the time they issued a boiled water notice,it was already to late.

Go home one day and pretend that you will have no power or water for 10 days,how would you survive by stockpiling the same things that you buy already ?

Remember no power equals no refrigeration,no lights and no computer,the key is to prepare before something happens,it is to late after it already has.

[Lowell]

Here's a picture of the break. That's a 120 inch diameter pipe, TEN FEET. It's McLarge Huge.

Great pictures Scottathew!

And Jimaz, indeed you are.

I confess I am a recovering compulsive ponderer.

[Danny]

There were two large potholes happen years ago along 15 Mile Rd. from Moravian St. to Hayes Rd. Cause, the old 15 Mile Rd. storm drain intercept that was built since the early 1970s. And most of the concrete structure is 50 years overdue for a fixing.

[jcole]

The current issue is unrelated to that

[Danny]

The current issue is unrelated to that

When you have any type of water and sewage problems it will be discussed.

[Jimaz]

... The boundaries between affected and unaffected areas are drawn along coarse city and township boundaries. I doubt the water pressure problem follows those boundaries exactly....

Here's one example, likely an exception to the rule, where the boundaries didn't coincide: Some Utica residents should continue to boil water.

If you live in a home or work for a business that is located from Northpointe Boulevard to Schoenherr Road, you are receiving water from Shelby Township and are still under the boil water advisory.

The original event was announced on the 13th and that story is dated the 18th. I'd like to know whether or not anyone there become ill during that time. The story doesn't say.

I'm not trying to be accusatory. I'm just curious how these things work under the hood and whether improvements can be made.

[Jimaz]

Well, here's a pleasant surprise.

GLWA LIFTS BOIL WATER ADVISORY FOR REMAINING 7 COMMUNITIES

but lines must be flushed, tanks emptied and refilled and filters replaced {see the link}.

[JonWylie]

It's almost like we don't have the resources to keep up with our continued suburban sprawl.

[Zacha341]

Right! And the problem will be kicked-down-road until it's a crisis as we see with the Hoover Dam/ Lake Mead situation!

[Jimaz]

...And Jimaz, indeed you are.

I confess I am a recovering compulsive ponderer.

I think I caught it from Winnie The Pooh. Either that or Pinky and the Brain.

NARF!

[Ray1936]

Right! And the problem will be kicked-down-road until it's a crisis as we see with the Hoover Dam/ Lake Mead situation!

For what it's worth, Lake Mead is up 2 1/2 feet in the past month thanks to our usual summer monsoons. Hey, it's a start.

[Richard]

Who would have ever thought a desert would lack water resources through the decades?

I think it is cool how the lower water levels have revealed things that have not been seen in over 100 years,like the footholds dug into the cliff faces where people used to climb them 500 years ago and nobody has seen before.

They keep blaming things on climate change,while forgetting about population change,if a tree fell in the forest before nobody heard it or if that forest burned nobody was bothered,the Indians used to burn the forests in order to replenish them,build a house in the forest and you see the tree fall and that fire burns your house.

Infrastructure is a strange one,Romans built roads and aqua ducts to move water and they are still standing 2000 years later,we stick a pipe in the ground and are lucky if it lasts 5 years.

Some cities water supply still comes through hollow logs buried over 100 years ago,maybe that was before job security was discovered.

[Scottathew]

They keep blaming things on climate change,while forgetting about population change

Both are very real issues!

[jcole]

We can blame population shift to the Southwest largely on the invention of air conditioning. Prior to that most of the large cities in the country were in the cooler climes because summer below the Mason Dixon was too hot for a lot of industries and large high rises. Then came air and there went the North....

[jcole]

Rank	Population [[000)	1950
1	New York	7,892
2	Chicago	3,621
3	Philadelphia	2,072
4	Los Angeles	1,970
5	Detroit	1,850
6	Baltimore	950
7	Cleveland	915
8	St. Louis	857
9	Washington	802
10	Boston	801

Now

1. New York, New York – 8,467,513
2. Los Angeles, California – 3,849,297
3. Chicago, Illinois – 2,696,555
4. Houston, Texas – 2,288,250
5. Phoenix, Arizona – 1,624,569
6. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania – 1,576,251
7. San Antonio, Texas – 1,451,853
8. San Diego, California – 1,381,611
9. Dallas, Texas – 1,288,457
10. San Jose, California – 983,489

[Dumpling]

When [not quite reality yet] drones are not picking up LIME e-scooters and hanging them on their coat hooks on their cell towers, they will be looking with LIDAR for future water main breaks [I was at the Eagle Harbor Art Fair when the Port Huron water main break happened].

https://www.mswmag.com/online_exclus...sk-of-bursting

I do have questions about what has been happening with the water main breaks but don't know some basics that I should.

The affected section this time is twenty six miles long or so, but there was only twelve feet or so of readily available replacement pipe for some emergency on hand in the whole country. This sounds like a just in time kind of a policy? And this was completely unexpected?

[Jimaz]

Update 21: 120-inch Water Transmission Main Break

This past weekend GLWA returned its 120-inch water transmission main back to service and the regional system back to normal operations. This was several days ahead of the previously stated timeline of October 5. With normal operations restored, GLWA is lifting the request that the 23 originally impacted communities limit outdoor water usage.

[Dumpling]

I like that there were continuing updates and that the contractors and GLWA worked as a team. Okay....there's one more ask: even if the remaining 25 miles of pipeline is solid and good to go for a long time, we should have more than 12 feet of replacement piping on hand here in Michigan close to the pipeline. Enough for two water main breaks at least so 300 feet at least. Also if anyone knows why this pipe break happened please add that info to this thread, thank you.