The 2022-2023 Detroit Pistons

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-01-22, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

I don't agree with that. Bey has way more value than a second rounder, but the problem is that he should be coming off the bench.

Assuming Bogdonovich gets traded at some point, they have 50% of a serviceable rotation. Cade, Ivey, and Duren should be penciled in as future starters. Bey and Stewart would be fine coming off the bench. Everybody else, they're basically warm bodies.

Hayes has to be a pick Weaver wishes he had back. However, that draft class is looking to be pretty weak in retrospect. You get three first round picks, you have to count on one not working out, so I can't ding Weaver too, too bad for missing on Hayes. But not getting one guy worth starting out of those three picks definitely stings for a roster that didn't have any starting caliber talent to begin with.

I was screaming at the TV for Detroit to take Haliburton, and look at him now. He fell 5 picks I believe past Hayes to Sacramento. Detroit's biggest problem however is defense or lack thereof. Teams get anything they want vs us. Dallas comes in tonight, so I'm sure Luka will have another 40 pt triple double.

**401don** · December-13-22, 09:07 AM

With Cade's surgery and Orlando's back-to-back wins over the Raptors this week we are firmly in place to once again get the most ping pong balls. I don't need to play the lottery as long as I follow Detroit teams.

**Danny** · December-13-22, 09:50 AM

Since the Ar- Cade machine is broken, The ball hogging Pistons are looking for another off-season and rebuilding. Oh well!

**softailrider** · December-22-22, 01:04 AM

Pistons extended Troy Weavers contract. I guess they must be happy with his trades and draft picks, which have resulted in the worst record in the league. I know CC had surgery but I think this team should still be somewhat competitive and they are not.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-22-22, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Pistons extended Troy Weavers contract. I guess they must be happy with his trades and draft picks, which have resulted in the worst record in the league. I know CC had surgery but I think this team should still be somewhat competitive and they are not.

I agree to a certain extent. Detroit is in tank mode for another year. CC is out for the year and I thought they could at least make the play-in tournament at one time, but that's out the window. So they're trying to join the Victor Wembanyama sweepstakes. Sometimes, some of those turnovers they make look scripted to me. I just think they need to hear a new voice. Casey has worn out his welcome as far as I'm concerned. One consolation is my whipping boy, Killian Hayes is playing better. [[Still would have taken Haliburton)

**401don** · December-22-22, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

I agree to a certain extent. Detroit is in tank mode for another year. CC is out for the year and I thought they could at least make the play-in tournament at one time, but that's out the window. So they're trying to join the Victor Wembanyama sweepstakes. Sometimes, some of those turnovers they make look scripted to me. I just think they need to hear a new voice. Casey has worn out his welcome as far as I'm concerned. One consolation is my whipping boy, Killian Hayes is playing better. [[Still would have taken Haliburton)

Ivey and Duren are both showing the potential we hoped for but guys like Bey and Bagley aren't stepping up. The Bagley contract looks like the big overpay everybody said it was.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-22-22, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

Ivey and Duren are both showing the potential we hoped for but guys like Bey and Bagley aren't stepping up. The Bagley contract looks like the big overpay everybody said it was.

Agreed. I don't know what happened to Bey. After scoring 51 pts vs Orlando last year, finishing 2nd in 3pt makes for a rookie, and making the all-rookie 1st team, his shooting has disappeared. I heard the Pistons have been shopping him, but they want a 1st round pick in return. And you're right about Bagley as well. I'm sure the Kings were more than happy to trade him, and by giving him that extension, Detroit thought a change of scenery would work out. He hasn't lived up to his position as a high 1st round pick, but we see this all the time.

**sirrealone** · December-22-22, 10:48 AM

I think with guys like Bey and Bagley, you run into an almost perpetual cycle of doom. They're not good enough to be 'the guy', and their weaknesses are exposed when they're asked to be. They would do a lot better as complementary pieces with better talent surrounding them. So, you get rid of them and hope that the next person through the revolving door is able to do what they weren't.

Cade, Ivey, and Duren are, in theory, supposed to be that 'better talent' but Cade is out, and Ivey and Duren are rookies and aren't ready to step up to that role, and may themselves turn out to be the same types of complementary players. or high tail it out of here before they take that leap. The Pistons aren't a destination for top end free agents. Getting those types of guys here hard for a team that's been mired in losing and isn't a landing spot for top end talent. They basically have to lean on the draft or hope to find untapped potential. Dumars made that last part look easy when he first built the 'Goin' To Work' teams, but he couldn't recapture that magic after the initial roster broke down, and analytics has probably made it harder to do so anyways.

Weaver hasn't been able to deliver on what we'd hoped, but honestly, I'm not sure who could have done better getting us out of the perpetual rut that we're stuck in.

**softailrider** · December-23-22, 09:47 PM

I think tonights game against the Hawks was one of the worst Pistons games I've ever seen. This team isn't even remotely competitive. How is Casey still the coach of this team? What is he bringing to the table? Mr. Gores is absent, he just doesn't seem to care.

**401don** · December-24-22, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I think tonights game against the Hawks was one of the worst Pistons games I've ever seen. This team isn't even remotely competitive. How is Casey still the coach of this team? What is he bringing to the table? Mr. Gores is absent, he just doesn't seem to care.

One of the Toronto sports channels picked up the game but for the 1st time this year I couldn't be bothered to watch. Glad I didn't. Expectations have gone from 30-35 wins to not being a complete embarrassment but even that's out the window now. Looking forward to the Tigers season. Rinse & repeat.

**EGrant** · December-24-22, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I think tonights game against the Hawks was one of the worst Pistons games I've ever seen. This team isn't even remotely competitive. How is Casey still the coach of this team? What is he bringing to the table? Mr. Gores is absent, he just doesn't seem to care.

While this isn't quite the rock bottom of the players pulling a mutiny against John Kuester back in the day, this was one of the most pathetic on-court performances I've seen from the Pistons. Just absolutely zero defensive effort.

I've defended Casey, as he's kept his teams engaged despite the obvious fact that the Pistons have been tanking over the past few years, but these types of games are BAD for the development of young players. This should be his last season as head coach.

**401don** · December-27-22, 09:23 AM

Last night the Pistons outdid even their low standards. They come back from 15 down in the 3rd qtr. hitting 3's from everywhere and outscore the Clippers 53-24 to take a 14 point lead with 3:00 min. remaining. The Clippers decide to concede early because they have a back-to-back in Toronto tonight and put their entire bench in. The Pistons are then outscored 16-2 and lose in OT. They don't have one guy they can go to for a bucket when it counts.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · December-27-22, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Last night the Pistons outdid even their low standards. They come back from 15 down in the 3rd qtr. hitting 3's from everywhere and outscore the Clippers 53-24 to take a 14 point lead with 3:00 min. remaining. The Clippers decide to concede early because they have a back-to-back in Toronto tonight and put their entire bench in. The Pistons are then outscored 16-2 and lose in OT. They don't have one guy they can go to for a bucket when it counts.

I agree. It was a disgraceful performance. Something has to give here. Are they intentionally losing for draft position? You're not supposed to tank deliberately, but we all know it happens. Or has Casey lost control of the team? People want to say it's their youth, but I disagree. I don't care how young they may be, they weren't supposed to lose that game. They might as well trade Bojan who should be their go-to guy when they need a bucket. I know he's probably tired of all this losing he's not familiar with.

**EGrant** · December-28-22, 10:15 AM

I don't think Casey has lost control of the team from a morale standpoint, but they keep making simple mistakes, especially on defense. I wonder if his coaching just isn't getting through to the guys and they need someone to come in and lay down the law. That's just wild speculation, as this is Detroit Yes and I am not in practice on a daily basis lol.

That being said, this roster is an absolute dumpster fire, not even counting Cade's injury. I guess Troy Weaver didn't think bringing in a wing who can defend better than the guys I see at the local YMCA was important this past offseason.

**EGrant** · December-29-22, 09:35 AM

The Pistons best performance of the season will always be known for the game Moe Wagner bodychecked Killian into the bench, and Killian came back and sucker punched him.

**Danny** · December-29-22, 09:43 AM

Get ready for some DEEEETROOIT BAAASKETBRAAAWWWLLL!

And it's not malice in the Palace.

**Zacha341** · December-29-22, 10:26 AM

How's the seating in the new arena? I hear they're steep and seats high stacked.

**401don** · December-29-22, 10:40 AM

[QUOTE:EGrant;630663]The Pistons best performance of the season will always be known for the game Moe Wagner bodychecked Killian into the bench, and Killian came back and sucker punched him.[/QUOTE]

The term sucker punch is being used everywhere because it was from behind but it appears he mostly caught him with the forearm. Also, I would say their best win was against Golden State or against Utah on the 2nd of back to back on the road. Orlando is a lousy team just like the Pistons.

**softailrider** · December-29-22, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

The Pistons best performance of the season will always be known for the game Moe Wagner bodychecked Killian into the bench, and Killian came back and sucker punched him.

That punch from behind Wagner wasn't a good look but what was KH supposed to do? He had to retaliate in some way, didn't he?

**EGrant** · December-29-22, 03:30 PM

I don't know, maybe don't punch someone in the back of the head? There's a good reason it's illegal in combat sports. Just get in his face, shove him and let your teammates break it up.

**softailrider** · December-30-22, 12:51 PM

Wagner deliberately shoved Hayes into the bench, It wasn't accidental. He had to respond in some fashion. Doesn't matter if your a kid on a playground or in the NBA playing at Little Caesars, you can't allow yourself to get pushed around - It'll keep happening.

**401don** · February-10-23, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

I don't agree with that. Bey has way more value than a second rounder, but the problem is that he should be coming off the bench.

When you posted this I'm not sure Wiseman was the guy you had in mind. Granted, he's better than a second rounder but how many of these projects who can't shoot do we need? I guess Weaver is admitting what a huge mistake it was to extend Bagley.

**sirrealone** · February-10-23, 12:53 PM

Overall assessment of the trade: Pistons didn't get remarkably better nor did they get much worse [[which, let's face it, may not be possible). Got rid of a guy that they clearly did not intend to give a second contract to, in exchange for a player that may or may not deserve one himself.

I understand the reasons for getting rid of Bey. Neither he nor Bogdonavich plays defense, so having both of them on the floor at the same time spelled disaster 100% of the time. He doesn't pass. His three-point efficiency has dropped dramatically.

But, yeah, Wiseman isn't exactly an inspiring return. Weaver's trade deadline strategy seems to be to bring in perceived busts and hope that they can strike gold. I hope that he does scratch off a winning lottery ticket one of these times, but in these days where analytics reign supreme, he's putting way too many eggs in that basket.

Weaver started off well. He cleared out the mess that VanGundy made. But with a clean slate, he hasn't done nearly enough to put together a team that can compete in today's NBA. Even if Cade had played this year, this team would have still been awful. We're getting really close to becoming the 80's Clippers, where even when they do get some good players, they bolt the first chance they can. Lottery purgatory is tough to get out of.

**401don** · February-10-23, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

Overall assessment of the trade: Pistons didn't get remarkably better nor did they get much worse [[which, let's face it, may not be possible). Got rid of a guy that they clearly did not intend to give a second contract to, in exchange for a player that may or may not deserve one himself.

I understand the reasons for getting rid of Bey. Neither he nor Bogdonavich plays defense, so having both of them on the floor at the same time spelled disaster 100% of the time. He doesn't pass. His three-point efficiency has dropped dramatically.

But, yeah, Wiseman isn't exactly an inspiring return. Weaver's trade deadline strategy seems to be to bring in perceived busts and hope that they can strike gold. I hope that he does scratch off a winning lottery ticket one of these times, but in these days where analytics reign supreme, he's putting way too many eggs in that basket.

Weaver started off well. He cleared out the mess that VanGundy made. But with a clean slate, he hasn't done nearly enough to put together a team that can compete in today's NBA. Even if Cade had played this year, this team would have still been awful. We're getting really close to becoming the 80's Clippers, where even when they do get some good players, they bolt the first chance they can. Lottery purgatory is tough to get out of.

A very good summation. It makes me nervous to hear Weaver say he thought Wiseman should have been the 1st pick the year he was drafted. He's probably just talking up the guy but anybody who can't step out and shoot these days better be really dominant inside and on defense.
Most of the mock drafts have the Pistons taking Henderson 2nd but if they do get the 2nd pick I don't know how they take another guard over Brandon Miller, a guy who could fit perfectly at either forward position.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-11-23, 10:33 AM

Pistons rebuild started out promising. Now I don't know with Weaver's infatuation with bigs [[ forget about Marvin Bagley III?) That Wiseman deal might be resinded because GPII failed his physical because the Portland Medical staff didn't reveal he had a core muscle injury and they were injecting him with pain killing shots, so he could continue to play. GS says he could miss the rest of the season after surgery. GS has to decide by sometime today if they'll still go thru with the trade. If not, all players go back to their previous teams. Heads should roll behind this. What a mess!!