Renaissance Center at a Crossroads?

[401don]

I'll say it again... Car museum. GM must have thousands of old vehicles hidden away in warehouses gathering dust. There are some absolutely massive retail spaces in there that are hidden from public view that could easily accommodate.

Not exactly a revenue generator.

[stasu1213]

I'll say it again... Car museum. GM must have thousands of old vehicles hidden away in warehouses gathering dust. There are some absolutely massive retail spaces in there that are hidden from public view that could easily accommodate.

My friend had asked one of the employees in the newly renovated Parr Why don't they place classic cars on the conveyor belt especially during Dream Cruise weekend the response was "We here to sell cars". That is why GM don't really care about making the complex a tourist attraction also. A car museum would generate revenue . Many people would come and look at cars of the 50s and 60s. Detroit need more entertainment other than venues that also sell alcohol for collection of liquor tax

[takascar]

You don't need to Google his quotation to know that it's fictitious. Just ask "What evil empire would say that?"

Any cause that has to resort to imagining enemies cannot itself be legitimate.

Sorry, but all true. My dad used to work for Wayne County and knew a city councilman [[trying to remember his name now) who told him the story.

He was kind of angry about it because he said it was a bunch of white woke liberals who were doing this, the same ones who treat black folks like helpless victims instead of people with agency [[NOTHING has changed).

He said all of his constituents would just roll their eyes and say "those dumb-a** white folks are at it again". He wished they would actually help people in the city rather than do what we call "virtue signalling".

Oh well, at least we know this isn't something new in the last few years....

[401don]

My friend had asked one of the employees in the newly renovated Parr Why don't they place classic cars on the conveyor belt especially during Dream Cruise weekend the response was "We here to sell cars". That is why GM don't really care about making the complex a tourist attraction also. A car museum would generate revenue . Many people would come and look at cars of the 50s and 60s. Detroit need more entertainment other than venues that also sell alcohol for collection of liquor tax

Please name a museum that makes money. Those classic automobiles require exact temperature and humidity standards as well.

[Burnsie]

Is it possible to open up the ground floor to the outside [[meaning take down the roof of the circular area between the towers and the center hotel tower and open it up to the elements)? Would that make it easier to navigate? In warmer months you could have outdoor seating for restaurants that would be placed on that level. This has been my two cents.

I'd also thought that sections of the podium could be demolished so that there are clear demarcations between each tower; having to go outside briefly to get to another tower would do so much to ease the confusion there.

[Burnsie]

A car museum would generate revenue . Many people would come and look at cars of the 50s and 60s.

The Henry Ford Museum basically fulfills the car museum need. Though GM has its heritage collection of 165 cars in Sterling Heights. It's annoying that the general public can't visit it.

[Jason]

Sorry, but all true. My dad used to work for Wayne County and knew a city councilman [[trying to remember his name now) who told him the story.

He was kind of angry about it because he said it was a bunch of white woke liberals who were doing this, the same ones who treat black folks like helpless victims instead of people with agency [[NOTHING has changed).

He said all of his constituents would just roll their eyes and say "those dumb-a** white folks are at it again". He wished they would actually help people in the city rather than do what we call "virtue signalling".

Oh well, at least we know this isn't something new in the last few years....

Probably because they were provincial racists and defaulted to that position when seeing a Japanese-American guy getting work here? Noguchi was one of the most prominent artists in the world, and the work he did was a perfect fit for Detroit. Are there any white guys who would have been better suited for the job?

[southen]

Sorry, but all true. My dad used to work for Wayne County and knew a city councilman [[trying to remember his name now) who told him the story.

He was kind of angry about it because he said it was a bunch of white woke liberals who were doing this, the same ones who treat black folks like helpless victims instead of people with agency [[NOTHING has changed).

He said all of his constituents would just roll their eyes and say "those dumb-a** white folks are at it again". He wished they would actually help people in the city rather than do what we call "virtue signalling".

Oh well, at least we know this isn't something new in the last few years....

A second hand story from your father? Must be true! I didn't realize the term "woke" was used then as well. Did he say libtard too or is that your own ignorant spin on Detroit hiring one of the best designers of that period?

[Richard]

Not exactly a revenue generator.

That is not true,there are plenty of auto eccentric museums across the country that generate positive revenue.

As a rule though most museums are a mix of taxpayer supported and revenue generating at the door admittance fees and private parties paying to store their vehicles for public view in a climate controlled atmosphere,as are art museums,one of the most popular art museums in the world generates $65 million a year in revenue.

Art is in the eye of the beholder - who is to say automobiles are not classified as art.To me put a Monet and a brass era Packard or many other automobiles next to each other and I see equal beauty.

We cannot dismiss that somebody put a rock in a box and marketed it as a pet and made millions,so anything is possible.

There appears to be enough space there where even if the collection motivated people to come into the building to spend money on other venues and shops,it would then be construed indirectly as being a revenue generator.

From Concours d’Elegance to local car shows,you never not see a crowd.

[softailrider]

Great looking buildings from the outside but it seems like most people hate going in there for a variety of reasons. People don't seem to want to shop or work there. It's almost like they went out of the way to make that place user unfriendly.

[Gistok]

GM spent only $75 million to buy it, a bargain for sure! And then added $500 million in changes... but didn't make it a better experience for visitors and shoppers. Maybe Gilbert didn't want it because it would cost another bazillion dollars to actually make it visitor friendly.

[night-timer]

Detroit will always struggle to create Detroit-centric attractions. It just isn't a big tourism town. If you want large crowds going into the location where Joe Louis Arena was, it should've stayed as a major sports venue. The place was packed. I'm just not sure who will visit a historic cars museum - locals or out-of-towners? The posh hotel and the highrise towers of the Renaissance Center is indeed one of Detroit's most recognizable landmarks. It's convenience to Downtown and the River has potential, but the potential has been there for a long time without much growth.

[Richard]

^ I think it depends on who you are targeting in tourist trade.

Detroit was known internationally- you have an international airport
Detroit was known as the birthplace of Motown
Detroit was known internationally as the birthplace of the automobile

You may not have that anymore and people have worked really hard to erase any history,but what you do have is that international knowledge built in,you do not have to introduce or sell Detroit in the international realm,they already know it.

Outside of the rat what make’s Disney world so popular? Because it is a destination that in the international tourist market it is sold as a package,the flight,rental car,hotel and things to do are put in a neat little package that removes the fear of traveling to an unknown location.

Stateside you can go to any city and see a car museum but there is only one place where it all started,that holds weight.

I kinda think Detroit needs to get over this not good enough or nothing to offer thing,it was a city known for innovation across the world,from appliances to automobiles to tractors,it did not help build a city it helped build then rebuild a world,so not only once but twice.

So much potential just sitting there going to waste.

[401don]

That is not true,there are plenty of auto eccentric museums across the country that generate positive revenue.

As a rule though most museums are a mix of taxpayer supported and revenue generating at the door admittance fees and private parties paying to store their vehicles for public view in a climate controlled atmosphere,as are art museums,one of the most popular art museums in the world generates $65 million a year in revenue.

Art is in the eye of the beholder - who is to say automobiles are not classified as art.To me put a Monet and a brass era Packard or many other automobiles next to each other and I see equal beauty.

We cannot dismiss that somebody put a rock in a box and marketed it as a pet and made millions,so anything is possible.

There appears to be enough space there where even if the collection motivated people to come into the building to spend money on other venues and shops,it would then be construed indirectly as being a revenue generator.

From Concours d’Elegance to local car shows,you never not see a crowd.

We're talking about what is needed to turn the Ren Cen around financially. What I'm saying is that an auto museum would have zero revenue effect on the overall health of that edifice.

[K-slice]

We're talking about what is needed to turn the Ren Cen around financially. What I'm saying is that an auto museum would have zero revenue effect on the overall health of that edifice.

In a vacuum you may be half right, but in reality that statement is just dead wrong. The RenCen is already surrounded by thousands of pedestrians each day, the last piece of the puzzle is getting them to walk in the door. Once you draw them in with SOMETHING then you can build more and more to cater to that foot traffic.

This is why sports stadiums, malls, amusement parks, etc don't JUST have sports, shops, and rides.

Of course, I'm talking about the base of the towers and not the towers themselves.

[Richard]

We're talking about what is needed to turn the Ren Cen around financially. What I'm saying is that an auto museum would have zero revenue effect on the overall health of that edifice.

Yes discussing it but you first have to ask GM if they really care about turning it around financially in the first place,it’s probably a good deprecation write down and was it really intended to be self supporting in the first place?

Clearly in that situation you would not be looking at a museum as a sole venue that supports the entire building it would be no different then a mall that relies on multiple businesses.

You would be looking at creating a destination where they could trap and entertain a family for a day,enough things to keep them occupied and places for them to rest as they get a bite to eat etc.

A museum in that setting could also help to eliminate that,been there done that aspect because they could be constantly revolving stock of vehicles combined with other things that create a different experience everytine you visit.

[Gistok]

^ With the maze like interior of the 4 story podium level structure [with no right angles] people could... after visiting the museum in the middle, treat it like a labyrinth challenge... they could spend hours trying to find the exit!

[Richard]

^ lol a mall is a maze to me,that’s why they have boards with maps that say,you are here.

The whole point is using what you have and making it work verses looking for reasons for it not to work.

That could be a part of the charm,add a yellow brick road and an occasional tin man or scarecrow and you have a theme.

[Gistok]

^ The Renaissance Center 4 story podium is unlike any mall. It's not like there are stores or public areas stacked upon each other like in a mall. The square 4 story podium has different shaped public areas on different levels... the only common denominator is that the central core is an 8 story hotel atrium. Each floor has public and private areas that go off in all directions. A floor plan map may not always help...

[Richard]

^ yes we also have similar in downtown Tampa,the locals refer to it as the beer can.

Granted it is only 31 stories but it has maintained a 80 - 90 % occupancy rate sense it was built in 1988.

Its design was actually ment to look like a light house and represent optimism.

Maybe that was not GMs intent ?

[Gistok]

Sigh... this is a "you need to have been there moment"... and also... GM purchased the 1977 built complex from Ford back in 1995... so they spent $500 million on renovations... but there were structural changes they could not make to improve circulation.

[Richard]

I was not there in the moment in a lot of places in the last 250 years.

So what you are telling me is that in one of the most innovative cities the world they cannot figure out how to make it work?

[Gistok]

I was not there in the moment in a lot of places in the last 250 years.

So what you are telling me is that in one of the most innovative cities the world they cannot figure out how to make it work?

I can't get into the head of dead architect John Portman, and why he did what he did. So trying to educate you in describing some place that you have never been to or experienced... is just not worth my time...

[401don]

Yes discussing it but you first have to ask GM if they really care about turning it around financially in the first place,it’s probably a good deprecation write down and was it really intended to be self supporting in the first place.

GM occupied a large percentage of the building because it was purchased to house their employees. They no longer need a lot of that space and other tenants have left as well. The huge public spaces are and always have been a write-off but they can't afford to have 6 huge towers with very low occupancy. To say they are happy because it's a write-down makes no sense. Did they build the Wintergarden because it would be more space to write off? I guess Gilbert will be okay if the Hudson Site sits empty because it's a write-off?

[Richard]

I can't get into the head of dead architect John Portman, and why he did what he did. So trying to educate you in describing some place that you have never been to or experienced... is just not worth my time...

I do not need to get into his head,we have a floor plan and there are probably blueprints out there,that’s what you have to work with.

It was his job to get into the head of Ford and what they envisioned and create a building in that,I do not know ? Pillars of strength?

I also never posted that it was GMs preference to use it as a write down,like that reply tried to insinuate,I am just thinking if GM was really interested in making it a profitable situation they certainly have the money to hire somebody whose job it is to figure that stuff out.

They are not going to know how much of a write down they need until the accountant tells them,hey you need a write down,got a place to dump a few 100 million ? Yea we have this place over here we can dump some money into it,it does not have to make sense.

I also posted they may not even need it to be profitable.

I am not in their head,but I did reference a similar design building that has been profitable sense the day it was built albeit on a smaller scale in comparison.

Readapting irregular or challenging buildings is not a new thing,people have adapted 1000 year old buildings to fit into todays needs,remember the challenges people discussed with the Wurlitzer building ? Have not heard much but it appears to be still functioning.

You could ask GM what they want to do,it may be on the bottom of the list of things to deal with and not really care if it is underutilized.

You cannot force or demand they do what is in the best interests of the community,it is their building after all.