Judge orders Packard Plant Demolition

[Midnight Rambler]

My Vintage E-Machine that I had everything store bit the dust for the particulars and times have changed,I had it pegged at 5 million after purchase at that time but adjusted increased material and labor cost to get the 9 million.

What that included back then and based on verbal commitments with the rail company,purely out door storage of raw materials,and a auto manufacturer as an off site storage of sorts to operate as a JIT 90 day buffer.

What that would have done was create an income that covered carrying costs and partially paid for the future stages.

Included the basics replacing/rebuilding structural integrity\ windows ré manufactured on site/power inside.

Lots of concrete and rebar - Raw materials brought in from the port by rail with a portable concrete plant on site,direct pours,the rebar would have been available from the local steel mill,no longer there though.

Different times now but maybe more advantageous.

I forget the name of the street now that it faces,not the street between the admin building and plant where the walkway collapsed but the other Main Street that runs the length.

Based on two immediate needs or things that would be the most beneficial would be the intent to bring a chip factory in there and roof top solar array,you would have to use a local families political connections in Washington to help lure the fed funds and incentivize the company in Taiwan to motivate them to add an additional factory there.

Everything runs on chips so it is not necessary to produce them specifically for the automotive sector.

We are past the point of producing them cheap,it’s irrelevant how cheap they are if you cannot get them,the military is also going to need chips and with buy American contracts it creates potential.

If the foreign company wants that contract,they have to produce them here in the states.

The feds already are gung ho about throwing up solar and it would be the largest solar array located in a urban setting.

So the objective would be to put that whole run of a building back online from street to street.Call it phase one.

Once you get the chip factory in there it becomes a magnet for other technology based operations,but I would still be leaning towards development of advanced rail systems both in light and heavy aspects.

Looking at specific needs,what the local labor force can support or pretty much useing what you have to work with to your advantage.

Usually a lot of that could be offset by tax credits,brown field credits and tax captures,but to me the object would be to make it a fed thing,because you are looking to benefit the country as a whole and the objective is to provide benefit to the community without increasing the burden on the community.

It sounds intriguing and I do see the potential. $9 million to achieve baseline functionality seems optimistic though. The demolition of Joe Louis Arena, for example, was projected to cost the city $10 million.

[renf]

Am I correct in thinking that before he purchased many properties in East Village from the city during its bankruptcy, John Hantz was considering the development of urban farms in abandoned buildings in the city. This type of urban farming involves the growing of vegetables and, perhaps, some fruits in a large building located in a city. Presumably this is possible and may reduce the cost of food production. I thought that Mr. Hantz gave
some consideration to such an entrepreneurial endeavor in Detroit.

There have been recent news reports that at least some investors are considering the type of urban family described above. One might think that the abandoned Packard Plants on East Grand might be a location
for an experimental urban farm. Alas, I do not know much about this
innovative type of urban farming but the plants, presumably, won't be
much bothered by the condition of the building.

[Richard]

You would still need to fix the shell,both for stabilization and safety reasons.

That is feasible also,1 acre of land is equal to 43,000 sqft so lined up hydro grow runs would equal a large farm.

Is it feasible,as a reference there was a recent bust in California where a warehouse located in an industrial section of the city, that was 1/4 the size of Packard,showed they were pulling in over $16 million per year from the seized records,that was with weed.

It could be used for a pharmaceutical factory not meaning weed.

Its not the condition of the property or weather it is a space that could be put back online or is preventing its re-use,the crutch there is the staggered ownership of the parcels,that needs to be addressed demolition or not.

My thinking is this,sense using the horse head method would have the animal rights group in a uproar.

Originally the real estate arm of Packard corporation was the Packard Land Development Corporation,they assembled the parcels,built the factory then leased the factory to Packard,a separate company.

In this case,form a corporation,everybody that owns parcels there turns them over to the corporation and in return receives equal shares in ownership,including the city.

The current owner could raise concerns because he has a large part,but he is really without choice,either he plays along or not only loses what he has but with a $5 - $10 million dollar judgment.

If the city spot demolishes it,the remaining parcel owners could hold out for top dollar which would prevent another company coming in there to purchase it all and build a new factory.

But once total ownership of all of the parcels once again are under the control of one entity, it becomes a viable piece of property to fix or even sell.

There are few other options,the current guy selling his part is pointless,the city demolishing their part and his part is pointless,it does not create a solution,it just takes the same current mess and turns it into vacant lots that cost the taxpayers millions to create,that you will never get back.

I can see if the city says we are taking it to demolish it so another company will buy the land and build a new factory,but they cannot do that without total control of all parcels.

There is always a curve in real estate and how the economy flows,there comes a point in time when the cost of labor and materials makes it more feasible to fix older structures then to build new.

If there was a case of alining the stars that make this property viable in probably the last 50 years,now is it.

The economy makes it feasible to fix
The opportunity and demand for the space is there

They can use the demolition aspect as a tool in order to force everybody into an agreement,which is what they may be already doing or attempting.

From a taxpayer aspect that is risky and the laws have changed sense the last time the city took control and illegally demolished parts of it,one mistake could end up costing the taxpayers a heck of a lot more then the $5 - $10 million as proposed,they could be on the hook for replacing what they demolished.

This is a time where they fire up the coffee pot or bring in the hookers n blow,and sit every parcel owner down and come to a viable solution.

It would be a win - win for everybody involved,face it,you are the taxpayers that are going to be stuck with this,you have to decide what you want your end game to be,a bunch of dead vacant lots or a viable asset to the community that provides jobs,opportunity and lessons your overall current tax obligation.

All of the numbers that I presented even from back then,was based on using zero tax dollars,because at that time Governor Snyder had removed all incentives for any property developments within the city due to the upcoming bankruptcy.

Then you could take the next step,run a street car/light rail from downtown Detroit,past the factory to downtown Hamtramck and Downtown Highland Park and using fed funds creating an opportunity zone and you would open up that whole corridor for development.

You could live in any one of those éreas and work anywhere along that corridor without having to drive a car.

[canuck]

Am I correct in thinking that before he purchased many properties in East Village from the city during its bankruptcy, John Hantz was considering the development of urban farms in abandoned buildings in the city. This type of urban farming involves the growing of vegetables and, perhaps, some fruits in a large building located in a city. Presumably this is possible and may reduce the cost of food production. I thought that Mr. Hantz gave
some consideration to such an entrepreneurial endeavor in Detroit.

There have been recent news reports that at least some investors are considering the type of urban family described above. One might think that the abandoned Packard Plants on East Grand might be a location
for an experimental urban farm. Alas, I do not know much about this
innovative type of urban farming but the plants, presumably, won't be
much bothered by the condition of the building.

Heck, even industrial rooftops are a possible angle when all is said.

These guys in Montreal have been at it for years now. They were the First company to operate a commercial
rooftop farm in the world, and they have built 4 across the city.


https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...als-lufa-farms

[Richard]

Heck, even industrial rooftops are a possible angle when all is said.

These guys in Montreal have been at it for years now. They were the First company to operate a commercial
rooftop farm in the world, and they have built 4 across the city.


https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...als-lufa-farms

That works in higher density places where you have limited space and very expensive dirt.

With Detroit currently you have a small amount of residents carrying the tax obligation at a stranglehold,most of the current development that has taken place has been done through the use of tax capture tools,fine for 15 years down the road but it does not address immediate needs,which is not giving the current residents more breathing room financially,and encouraging others to move there.

The reason I suggested roof top solar because it could be installed at no cost to the taxpayer and at the very least remove a little stress in their utility bills.

Plus given the current circumstances,solar is like a puppy dog,who can say no,even better because of the high amount of green energy fanatics in the region it would draw support.

Even better it would be the largest solar array in a urban setting in the country,which would put Detroit all over the news in a positive way as they go back to the days of yesteryear when setting the standard to follow.

That is the whole point in all of this,to stop following and become the standard that everybody else follows.

Its what built the city in the first place,without it the only thing that would be there would be a small river city with a bunch of otter trappers boozing and whoring it up after a hard days trapping.

Lots of River city’s bit the dust ,when Detroit gave up its innovative roots and started following the crowd instead of setting the standard,it bit the dust into bankruptcy.

Its not taking what you do not have,it’s taking what you do have and shaping it into a more productive future,while not leaving those there today behind in the wake.

As the city gains density in the future sure all of that roof top garden aspect could come into play.

The state already has a viable farm production,the whole rooftop greenery thing is more suited to looking cool,absorbing the heat of a dense city and cleaning the air from pollution in a dense city that has little actual vacant land left to plant anything.

No I have not been to Montreal either,but it is not hard to figure out with the cost of real estate you ain’t putting a garden in a vacant lot,so in the name of innovation the next step would be to utilize every square inch of available real estate,the roof tops are really all that are left.

Not that I care about solar but if you have a piece of commercial property you want every square inch to produce revenue,the only thing the roof is doing is keeping the weather in or out,it’s not making you any money,freeloading,might as well put it to work,if it powers up a few tooth brushes all the better.

I have zero clue how much power it would produce,but even if it just powers the plant,which is actually being done in other cities on a smaller scale,so it must be viable,even better you get all that free money from the feds to purchase and install it.

[Jimaz]

Abandoned - Detroit's Packard Plant

At one time, Detroit Michigan was the capitol for automotive manufacturing. The perfect place for Packard Automotive to relocate to and build their dream plant. After decades of success and buildings encompassing millions of square feet, the brand went under and their factory was in limbo. Now, the former Packard plant stands as a monument of failure and quite possibly the largest abandoned factory in the world, in the middle of Detroit.

• Tracking Time
• Nailhed
• Michael Kuentz

[renf]

Thank you, Richard, for your thoughtful comments about the possible
use of the former Packard plant for commercial farming. I assume that
growing crops inside a building is somewhat less risky than growing
crops in the field. There is, presumably, much less risk of drought,
torrential rains or frosts that might wipe out a crop growing in a field.
Thanks

[Zacha341]

^ Yes, I'm for more city farming where possible. But is there not an issue of toxic waste in the ground there in places?

[Richard]

^ the states version of the EPA has a record of every industrial property with levels of contamination,available online.

Not sure about now after all the illegal wanton demolition that occurred there recently but there was no contamination there before,the only thing that was listed as questionable was a pile of illegally dumped transformers.

Its a numbers game but when my cousin converted my uncles beef farm into green houses growing hydro veggies she does half the work and makes double the money,everything is set up on timers,even in the middle of a Minnesota winter she grows strawberries.

It eliminates the seasonal produce aspect.

I think even at Packard if it was set up to do fresh herbs 365 it may be feasible because they demand a higher resale.

There are lots of interesting and creative possibilities in adaptive reuse,the buildings may have outlived their original use but they still provide the basics of what you need for any intended use,4 walls and a roof,the rest is a matter of numbers and the ability to say,what can we do to make this productive verses,it’s useless tear it down.

If tax payers are going to eat it one way or another why not team up with the university’s and have a working agricultural center where the students get hands on experience and the crops are sold to the local population.

Lots of possibilities.

It is even suitable for textile manufacturing which kinda uses the same concept of a line as automotive manufacturing,bring the raw materials up from the south,clothing made with high cotton content is actually more environmentally safe then the highly toxic nature of manufacturing polyester,which also requires a fossil fuel base.

I lean towards working with what you have and creating a diverse local economy,a building and a workforce that would not require a massive amount of training to employ but you also have a mix of technology based needs for the higher end of the employment sector.

Even with an agricultural aspect you are introducing a more diverse economy that is need to buffer the ebbs and flows of the automotive industry,there is a lot of talent locally,if you do not figure out to harvest that,they will leave,they need to grow and mature also.

The only way that building stands as a monument to failure,is if it is demolished, because the real failure is in the inability to adapt,which is why it is in the condition it is in,the building did not do anything to anybody.

[Richard]

county has foreclosed on the parcels that the new owner has and are moving forward with demolition,he still retains the administration building.

I am not sure exactly what parcels the city already owns outside of the one across from the administration building that the walkway used to connect.

So even though it has not been the Packard Plant that everybody thinks it was for the last 40 years it’s now going to be even less.

There are some of his parcels that he worked a deal on that he thought were included in the sale but were not,so that person or persons will lose their part along with other investors that bought into the dream,sad ending all around.

[Danny]

The Old Packard Plant is back to square one. A Parthenon-like American Ruins that is making a laughingstock in Detroit.

[Richard]

It like let’s spend 2 million over here where very few live in demolitions verses a neighborhood where the public is at risk.

[Zacha341]

Detroit moving [fast] to demolish portion of Packard Plant...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...t/69525152007/

https://twitter.com/DetroitDemo313

[night-timer]

Have a heart. Save the place, even if only for sentimental reasons. The Packard Plant might be a dump, but I like the joint.

[Danny]

YAY Finally!

[Scottathew]

Have a heart. Save the place, even if only for sentimental reasons. The Packard Plant might be a dump, but I like the joint.

I strongly disagree. It's well past saving. It's just a detriment to the community.

Tear it down. Move on.

Unfortunately the nearby neighborhoods look pretty rough and deserted. I'd love to say that tearing this down will help, but I fear it may be too late. I'm not sure what the solution is to turn around the neighborhood.

[Honky Tonk]

I strongly disagree. It's well past saving. It's just a detriment to the community.

Tear it down. Move on.

Unfortunately the nearby neighborhoods look pretty rough and deserted. I'd love to say that tearing this down will help, but I fear it may be too late. I'm not sure what the solution is to turn around the neighborhood.

I don't know, The Packard Motel seems to be doing fine. Maybe they can reopen the A&P across the street?

[Dumpling]

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3790...7i16384!8i8192

The Packard Motel hung in there for a good many years but it has closed within the last two years.

[sirrealone]

I'm not sure what the solution is to turn around the neighborhood.

Step 1 was always going to be getting rid of this eyesore. At least now there's a hope for Step 2.

[Richard]

Step 1 was always going to be getting rid of this eyesore. At least now there's a hope for Step 2.

Thats what they said about Poletown,how did that work out ?

People are still thinking when they hear the words,Packard Plant,it encompasses everything Packard Plant when it does not.

The only thing it will do is open up some more vacant lots,Packard plant will still exist it will just be like here is a piece,here is a vacant lot,here is another piece.

Its still not a solution outside of spending $1.7 million,it’s not going to do anything to improve the neighborhood for the existing residents.

Just create more empty space where people can dump trash in.

Its providing a false hope,the city has been doing greats at converting and building places for people to live,but unless you are going to cut them a check,where are they going to work?

Demolition does not always automatically relate to progress,its repeating the devastation that was caused by desperate urban renewal programs that were proven failures back in the 1960s.

Providing hope would be the city looking for ways to put it back online,the city wanting it to go away is a sign of the city giving up in desperation and trying to make everything out of site out of mind,it’s not a solution.

Its the city saying,we have $1.7 in free money and in a city that is fraught with neighborhood issues,this is the one that has the highest priority.

I think it has more to do with the city trying to erase a history of bad mistakes when it comes to that property,because the reality is they are the ones that created its demise,it’s their failure.

Its a danger to the community? The city is just as guilty of demolition by neglect as they claim the owners were,because they have also been the owners,the walkway that collapsed was just as much of the city’s responsibility to maintain in good or safe condition as the other owners.

When the city itself fails to maintain or secure its vacant properties,how can it cite other property owners for doing the exact same thing?

[Zacha341]

Enough all ready. Tear it down! Before a body is found there.

[Zacha341]

Nice historical photo, but at the end this was for sho' a 'NO-TELL MOTEL'! Ick!

[Richard]

Enough all ready. Tear it down! Before a body is found there.

Lol like body’s cannot be dumped in the overgrown and trashed vacant lot that will remain.

The whole thing is not being torn down,just bits and pieces.

[royce]

It's time. It is in bad shape. Parts of it have collapsed. All of it needs to be torn down. Clear the entire site and promote it as a site for a distribution center or giant warehouse. Proximity to I-94 is a definite selling point.

[Smirnoff]

For the person[[s) that questioned; yes, we can extradite from Peru.