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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonWylie View Post
    I posted an excerpt, can't post the whole thing though, sorry. I'll see if I can pull some photos








    Anchored by the $250 million Detroit Center for Innovation, a University of Michigan graduate school campus focused on research and innovation, the updated Ross/Ilitch plan would bring a long-envisioned new hotel to the unused land south of the arena, new office and retail space on the Woodward-fronting surface parking lots for Comerica Park, more commercial development along Columbia Street and affordable and market-rate residential space along Park Avenue.

    Some of the development unveiled today — the Woodward project [[originally residential), the hotel on Henry Street and a community space over I-75 [[long envisioned as retail) — has conceptually been on the Ilitch family's Olympia Development of Michigan's real estate company's drawing boards, Crain's has previously reported, although none of it has gotten off the ground.
    source

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Wow!! Look at all that "proposed" development!!

    I propose that they first finish the Detroit Life Building, the Blenheim Apartments, and a building behind the Fine Arts facade. And then there's the Henry St. Historic District, and all of the other empty historic buildings that the Ilitches own.

    We've been tricked so many times by the Ilitches, that if Stephen Ross can get things going... more power to him... but I'm not holding my breath!
    Considering office and retail are the most speculative ventures for at least the next few years,it probably would not be prudent to hold your breath anyways.

    Unless of course if you wish to do so,it is a free county

    Is “Tricked” the best use of a word? I have always based it on when somebody does not do what they say the first time,everything else after that is taken with a grain of salt,saves from being repeatedly “tricked”.

    I think they say,fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me.
    Last edited by Richard; May-26-22 at 03:40 PM.

  3. #53

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    This is pretty funny. I click on the last post and when I worked backwards to the photos I assumed they were ten years old.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Considering office and retail are the most speculative ventures for at least the next few years,it probably would not be prudent to hold your breath anyways.

    Unless of course if you wish to do so,it is a free county

    Is “Tricked” the best use of a word? I have always based it on when somebody does not do what they say the first time,everything else after that is taken with a grain of salt,saves from being repeatedly “tricked”.

    I think they say,fool me once shame on you,fool me twice shame on me.
    Richard... this would be fool us the 3rd time... which is why pretty much everyone on this forum is skeptical. The Ilitches promised us a lot of ancillary development after they got state/county/city money for Comerica Park back in 1999... no development happened. But lots of parking lots were created.

    The Ilitches promised us a lot of ancillary development after the got state/city money for Little Caesar Arena in 2017... the promised "District Detroit" development... but nothing ever happened, except lots of parking lots were created [[and finally the 13 story historic Eddystone Hotel was redeveloped next to the arena after the city threatened the Ilitches).

    So they now own about 15 other historic buildings... and we are still skeptical, as most DetroitYESers were after the 2017 announcement.

    Things with the Ilitches are so bad, that one of the historic buildings behind the Fox Theatre, has been a restoration in progress for about 20 years now [[Detroit Life Building).

    This is why we don't believe anything that the Ilitches say... until it is FINISHED.

    Now having NYC massive Hudson Yard developer Stephen Ross involved in the latest plan does add hope that Ilitches District Detroit gets finished [[not just a vast expanse of parking lots). But Ilitches have burned Detroit so often... that we'll believe it when we see it.

  5. #55

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    They also had an agreement with a sports and entertainment company out of Kansas City to help them bring DD to life. The agreement was terminated because Olympia was impossible to deal with. Don't be surprised if you see something similar happen with Related Cos.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    They also had an agreement with a sports and entertainment company out of Kansas City to help them bring DD to life. The agreement was terminated because Olympia was impossible to deal with. Don't be surprised if you see something similar happen with Related Cos.
    My theory is that Illitch is wanting a significant Comerica Park refresh. The ballpark is 22 years old now, and if the Tigers are “keeping up with the Jones” and the renovations other MLB clubs have made to their stadiums built around that time, then it’s approaching time for a Comerica park remodel as well.

    Obviously Illitch is hoping for some public financing to cover that renovation, so the pretty District Detroit pictures help sell it to the politicos. I can’t fault him for trying, as it already worked twice. Once for the original ballpark construction, and then a second time to help fund LCA. Since it worked before, why not try it again…?

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    My theory is that Illitch is wanting a significant Comerica Park refresh. The ballpark is 22 years old now, and if the Tigers are “keeping up with the Jones” and the renovations other MLB clubs have made to their stadiums built around that time, then it’s approaching time for a Comerica park remodel as well.

    Obviously Illitch is hoping for some public financing to cover that renovation, so the pretty District Detroit pictures help sell it to the politicos. I can’t fault him for trying, as it already worked twice. Once for the original ballpark construction, and then a second time to help fund LCA. Since it worked before, why not try it again…?
    You're probably not too far off...
    Smdh

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gistok View Post
    Richard... this would be fool us the 3rd time... which is why pretty much everyone on this forum is skeptical. The Ilitches promised us a lot of ancillary development after they got state/county/city money for Comerica Park back in 1999... no development happened. But lots of parking lots were created.

    The Ilitches promised us a lot of ancillary development after the got state/city money for Little Caesar Arena in 2017... the promised "District Detroit" development... but nothing ever happened, except lots of parking lots were created [[and finally the 13 story historic Eddystone Hotel was redeveloped next to the arena after the city threatened the Ilitches).

    So they now own about 15 other historic buildings... and we are still skeptical, as most DetroitYESers were after the 2017 announcement.

    Things with the Ilitches are so bad, that one of the historic buildings behind the Fox Theatre, has been a restoration in progress for about 20 years now [[Detroit Life Building).

    This is why we don't believe anything that the Ilitches say... until it is FINISHED.

    Now having NYC massive Hudson Yard developer Stephen Ross involved in the latest plan does add hope that Ilitches District Detroit gets finished [[not just a vast expanse of parking lots). But Ilitches have burned Detroit so often... that we'll believe it when we see it.
    Yes sir,it is commendable that you took the time to write multiple paragraphs that you yourself would not read,and after 8 years I kinda get the jist of what is going on in Detroit.

    Having said that,there are others that may be new to the city and might find that information pertinent.

    Hows the fairgrounds development going,never mind.

    The pretty pictures are nice to see,but personally I am more interested in seeing development that does not offer long term tax captures and helps with immediate lower tax burden to current residents and would help increase population.

    The phase going on now is fed funding for housing,that is where the focus is going to be,so you really cannot expect much else,if you do not expect it you will not be disappointed.

    When the shovel hits the dirt,then you know it is in most cases serious,interest rates rising,material costs shooting up through the roof etc.,you have to figure the math for most of these projects was done over 2 years ago,so most likely some will collect dust on the drawing board.

    Most renderings are submitted for the public to gain support in funding,it’s what they would like to do but to take it serious probably is not the best way,the public input or a way to get people talking about it is a good indicator of the chances of the public signing off on the incentives.

    It does not mean it is funded yet.
    Last edited by Richard; May-26-22 at 11:42 PM.

  9. #59

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    Related co aren't dummies who were born yesterday. They're not going to waste their time and money if there was even a hint that what they're working on in partner with the Ilitches wouldn't happen. He actually literally says this in the interview.

    The hotel and office building shown here will get built. Can't say for the rest of the concept though.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by southen View Post
    I'll believe it when I see it. It is nice to see Ross's quotes on Detroit and how he wouldn't be involved if he didn't see it happening, but he and Related haven't been able to speed up progress on the innovation center at all. Crazy that the land they are using is completely vacant and they can't start construction until next year.
    The land being vacant has nothing to do with anything. Last he talked about it they were still in the process of raising funds for the center other than his contribution.

  11. #61

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    surprised no one has made mention of the 75 'park' cap yet Name:  75 cap.JPG
Views: 784
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  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by hybridy View Post
    surprised no one has made mention of the 75 'park' cap yet Name:  75 cap.JPG
Views: 784
Size:  83.1 KB
    Same reason nobody mentions the Lions wining the Superbowl.

  13. #63

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    The majority of this plan may have a good shot at coming to fruition, hear me out on this. Two words: Stephen Ross [[or Related Companies, whichever pair you prefer).

    Ilitch is just like Kefallinos, Matty Moroun, or any other slumlord. They milk the properties for whatever they're worth with absolute minimum effort until someone comes along to buy them at an appreciated value, we know this.

    Ross comes along and he's ready to buy, values are up, why would Ilitch not sell? It's slumlord 101 to sell when the right offer comes around. Ross doesn't need anything from Ilitch other than the land. Ross and Related aren't fools, they can plainly see what's been going on, and likely wouldn't put their reputation in a place where they start to get blamed for the 35 years of broken promises and rotting buildings Ilitch has overseen.

    Now, I'm sure as a stipulation for Ross to acquire this land from the Ilitches, there will be all kinds of branding agreements, and "The District" will be plastered all over the developments, but anyone with eyes will know who's really behind this.

    Had Moroun been better at branding he could have "partnered" with Ford on MCS. Or Kefallinos could have required that his name be attached to Lafayette West. Then all the idiots could have said "see guys, they had a plan all along".

    Anyways, this post is getting long, but the changed circumstances this time give me hope.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by hybridy View Post
    surprised no one has made mention of the 75 'park' cap yet Name:  75 cap.JPG
Views: 784
Size:  83.1 KB
    My only comment for the freeway cap is that i wanna see it go all the way to Brush. you really can't have a connected "district" without addressing that chasm, though i'm pleasantly surprised it made even this rough design. hoping Related's presence in the project will eclipse the Illitches and give this all an actual shot at existing. I hope all our skepticism is proven wrong this time.

    I also wonder if we'll see a big framework coming soon from Bedrock – perhaps a new design of the riverfront around Atwater, with all their recent acquisitions. Bedrock and Olympia are sure to have a low key rivalry in who can drop the best district plans..

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiricalivory View Post
    The land being vacant has nothing to do with anything. Last he talked about it they were still in the process of raising funds for the center other than his contribution.
    The center was first announced in October of 2019. One of the wealthiest developers in the country working on behalf of one of the wealthiest institutions needs over three years to fundraise for this? Throw in the fact that he’s on his second location with a new development partner, one with a horrendous record mind you, and I’m not sure where all the blind optimism comes from. I want this to happen as much as anyone but it didn’t work with Detroits best developer, but it’s gonna be a home run with Detroits worst? Until shovels are in the ground it’s all talk. Partner with the Ilitchs and you’ll get the same skepticism they receive until you prove otherwise.

  16. #66

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    No offense but I don't think you have any idea how something like this becomes reality lol, they dont just decide to build and then shovels immediately go in the ground. For comparison the Cornell campus in New York was announced in 2011, didn't start construction until 2014 which was also on vacant land so there's nothing really unusual about the U of M timeline here.

    We have no idea what happened between Bedrock and Related so idk what the point is there.

    A hotel and an office building being built on an Ilitch lot isn't really far fetched at all. They already built multiple ground up buildings on Woodward by themselves. And with the innovation center they're just donating the land.

  17. #67

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    We can argue this one until the "cows come home"... and there's over 1000 posts in the DYES archives that had this same argument about if District Detroit was going to be a reality.

    I call Skipper's Rule.

  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satiricalivory View Post
    No offense but I don't think you have any idea how something like this becomes reality lol, they dont just decide to build and then shovels immediately go in the ground. For comparison the Cornell campus in New York was announced in 2011, didn't start construction until 2014 which was also on vacant land so there's nothing really unusual about the U of M timeline here.

    We have no idea what happened between Bedrock and Related so idk what the point is there.

    A hotel and an office building being built on an Ilitch lot isn't really far fetched at all. They already built multiple ground up buildings on Woodward by themselves. And with the innovation center they're just donating the land.
    lol. lol.

    The point is that they already moved on from one developer and one plot of land. That developer has a pretty good track record. They have since moved onto working with a developer that has a substantial track record of fancy renderings and no follow through, something that this center has been to this point, and that doesn’t raise an eyebrow at all? Ross has personally donated $100 million of the estimated $300 million cost. Related isnt going to chip in? The Ilitches are only providing the land they bought for pennies on the dollar, they aren’t fronting anything despite being worth billions? They have had renderings and building drawings for some time and have not raised enough money to start construction? Is it a firm 2023 start time or can we expect it to get bumped if they are unable to raise funds?

    I ask because clearly you have some experience in this field since you present all of your opinions as fact.

    I love how you give them credit for the two buildings they did build, one of which was a $40 million tax write off to Wayne State. I guess they can be trusted now.

  19. #69

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    IDK man, open this recent crains article in reader view and you can read his own words. He says they're very comfortable with the fundraising.

    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...ommunity-space

    The Ilitches obviously have no development credibility, I'm not going to defend them lol but I don't think they have this secret evil plan to keep parking lots in Detroit forever and ever. Their bottom line is they love money and they want to put in the least effort possible to get it. That's why this partnership with Related is perfect for them, they don't have to do anything. You're hyper focused on Olympia when you should be looking at Related who is actually going to do the work here.

  20. #70

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    Well he said it so I guess it must be true. Good developers never stretch the truth to get what they want. I cant wait for Hudson’s to top out at 912 feet.

    A reason to be skeptical is the association with Olympia. It is why previous development agreements with them have fallen through. They micromanage and don’t want to put any skin in the game that isn’t taxpayer backed. That might look like a point in their favor but it is precisely why I see them blowing this deal. Related has sizable investments in other cities but to date they haven’t spent one penny on development in the city and now they have a huge development plan that could be billions in total investment? DG may be somewhat frustrating in that he overpromised on underdelivered on some of his projects but he has a track record of starting things and getting the ball rolling immediately. His investments have also been substantial. He has earned the benefit of the doubt, this group has not.

  21. #71

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    I feel like, reading between the lines, that these renderings are more of a "look what could be built here" and they are putting this out in hopes they get more partners to buy in and building some of the things themselves. I think the Innovation Center and the buildings announced earlier will get built. Ross also is farther along in planning on a building on 3rd and Charlotte, although not nearly as impressive as any of these renderings.

    I could see the Illitches finishing another one or two, very slowly. Maybe Ross buildings a hotel or apartment building. But I think they want more partners to jump in and build some of the buildings, which we've already discussed that Olympia is not good about partnering with developers.

  22. #72

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    Let’s talk about the freeway cap shown in the map drawing.

    What benefit does the freeway cap provide Olympia? Honest question. Does a freeway cap mean more events at LCA? Does it mean more guests in the proposed adjacent hotel? Does it provide any meaningful business benefit to Illitch or Olympia? And the answer to all of that is a big no.

    Don’t misunderstand my point. I get why many on the board like the concept. I even agree with that, and the benefits to the urban fabric it provides. It would be good for the city if it happened. But would it benefit Illitch in any meaningful way?

    And to me, that is the giveaway. The cap was included because the artist knew that’s what people wanted to see. But freeway caps are also very expensive, and again provide little to no $ benefit to Illitch. So there is no chance he is finding that. Building a freeway cap would be a horrible business decision. Which brings us full circle to the only group that would pay for it… the tax payers.

    Illitch is just creating a sim city with as many buildings as possible to see what public money can be drummed up. MDOT $ for a freeway cap, county $ for a Comerica Park renovation, State $ for an office building to attract new jobs to the state. But the funding source is always the public, with Illitch capturing some of the windfall. That’s what this is about.
    Last edited by Atticus; May-27-22 at 07:20 PM.

  23. #73

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    Better get a move on. Ross is 82 yrs. old.

  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    And to me, that is the giveaway. The cap was included because the artist knew that’s what people wanted to see. But freeway caps are also very expensive, and again provide little to no $ benefit to Illitch. So there is no chance he is finding that. Building a freeway cap would be a horrible business decision. Which brings us full circle to the only group that would pay for it… the tax payers.
    Spot on. All these maps they've trotted out over the years feel more like dream boards instead of actual plans.

  25. #75

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    Keith Bradford Named President of Olympia Development and The District Detroit - DBusiness Magazine

    Prior to joining Ilitch Holdings, Bradford spent 23 years with Walt Disney World in Orlando, including almost nine years as vice president of Disney Springs. At that position, he lead the effort to double the size of Downtown Disney and rebrand the product to Disney Springs. As part of the redevelopment, Brandford and his team added more than 13 new restaurants and 70 new retail locations to the existing portfolio.
    Maybe, just maybe, they have someone who actually will do something.

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