School Shooting at Oxford High School

[Zacha341]

Bottom line for many is their choice and desire for guns for protection [not hunting at all]. Regardless of party or lobby. Who stands for them?

Some readily negate that option [personal protection] - and if their choice fine with me. Let's not forget that guns aren't the only murder tool. As I've stated I had teenaged cousin attacked and murdered by a knife wielding killer.

Speaking of mass gun killings let us remember that the US is not the only place on the globe where this is occuring. We've now had a mass shooting of innocent families and children - gunned down in a Church in southwest Nigeria.

At least 50 killed in massacre at Catholic church in southwest Nigeria

Gunmen disguised as congregants carried out attack on ...

[Zacha341]

Emotions, politics boil over ahead of Oxford march about gun violence

https://www.wxyz.com/news/emotions-p...t-gun-violence

[ABetterDetroit]

[QUOTE=Zacha341;625428]Bottom line for many is their choice and desire for guns for protection [not hunting at all]. Regardless of party or lobby. Who stands for them?

Some readily negate that option [personal protection] - and if their choice fine with me. Let's not forget that guns aren't the only murder tool. As I've stated I had teenaged cousin attacked and murdered by a knife wielding killer.

Speaking of mass gun killings let us remember that the US is not the only place on the globe where this is occuring. We've now had a mass shooting of innocent families and children - gunned down in a Church in southwest Nigeria.

At least 50 killed in massacre at Catholic church in southwest Nigeria

Gunmen disguised as congregants carried out attack on ...

[/QUOTE


Uhh… Nigeria is caught up in a violent terrorism based right wing insurgency. It sucks for the good people of Nigeria no doubt, but I fail to see any logical comparison to that dire situation and Firearms being the number 1 cause of death for children in The United States of America.

Oxford was unfortunately just 4 more deaths of teens among thousands. Exact numbers for last year are not out yet but they will be awful for sure. At least for those of us that have empathy for victims and their surviving family members that have to live with losing a child, sister or brother to such senseless violence.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2200169

[Richard]

You keep repeating the lie.

I posted the links that show the #1 cause of children deaths is determined by one’s definition of what defines a child.

I also posted links that prove that 83% of the gun violence with “children” are attributed to the use of guns in suicide but are listed as total deaths.

It can be argued that because a gun was used in those suicides it equates to death by gun in the bigger picture and if you remove the guns,you will lower the death rate.

I will not work that way,because people jump off of bridges in order to commit suicide ,but yet we are not advocating for the removal of bridges.

You are advocating for removal of the tool and not the reason for their use in the first place.

That tells me once again,people do not actually care about the children and the fake tears of sadness is only about a narrative.

If people really cared they would be more interested in preventing those deaths before they get to that final solution,regulating guns is not regulating the emotions that take people to that place where they feel the need to pick one up out of desperation.

Remove the suicide rate out of the gun violence equation and a “child” is just as likely to die in a distracted driving accident as they are in gun violence.

[Zacha341]

I did not bring it up as a comparison of firearms deaths of children here in the US. I mentioned it as a statement re. how mass shootings are occurring globally. Indeed the reasons vary: political, personal, social, mental illness etc.

Nigeria is caught up in a violent terrorism based right wing insurgency. It sucks for the good people of Nigeria no doubt, but I fail to see any logical comparison to that dire situation and Firearms being the number 1 cause of death for children in The United States of America.

[Honky Tonk]

Let's face facts. A lot of deaths could have been avoided at Uvalde had the police responded properly. Instead they were standing around arresting and cuffing Mrs. Gomez because she wanted to save her children. Which incidentally she did, by climbing a fence, and rushing into the school, once she was uncuffed. Were they waiting for the perp to run out of ammo first?

[jcole]

I do NOT understand how people keep trying to compare someone with a knife to someone with a gun that has a clip with 20 or 30 rounds in it. Do they think that anyone can reuse a knife 20 times to kill people in the amount of time that a gun will do the job? Or that they can throw a knife accurately from the distance a gun shoots from? It is apples and oranges.

[Richard]

Let's face facts. A lot of deaths could have been avoided at Uvalde had the police responded properly. Instead they were standing around arresting and cuffing Mrs. Gomez because she wanted to save her children. Which incidentally she did, by climbing a fence, and rushing into the school, once she was uncuffed. Were they waiting for the perp to run out of ammo first?

It probably a combination of things

I posted where the police have no duty to protect students that are not in custody,that was determined after the lawsuits against the police in the Florida school shooting.

They could not let the parents run into an uncontrolled situation,imiagine what would have happened if they just let the parents run into there and then they became victims.

The police could not have just run in there,is called situational control,if they had and fired off a shot and it hit a student,then it would be all over the news.

There was a border patrol agent that was getting his hair cut close by when the shooting started,he was off duty and borrowed a gun from the barbershop owner and went in,he could not find the shooter but he got his kids out,right away the media reported it was him that ran in and shot the shooter,he had said repeatedly that was not the case.

There is also a war on police going on,that is making a lot of departments second guessing actions,which is costing lives.

People made the choice where they want a smaller police presence and less action from them,then get mad when they do not react,or are placing potential liability over actions.

[jcole]

The police in Uvalde were SCHOOL police. By definition that means they are they to protect students, teachers and school property. Jeez..

It probably a combination of things

I posted where the police have no duty to protect students that are not in custody,that was determined after the lawsuits against the police in the Florida school shooting.

[Richard]

The police in Uvalde were SCHOOL police. By definition that means they are they to protect students, teachers and school property. Jeez..

The guy walked up and shot two of the school police before entering the building.

Just because you create a definition in your mind does not make it applicable.

The Texas DPS investigation revealed that up to 19 Uvalde police officers were in the school hallways and did not storm the classroom to remove Ramos — even as children were alive inside and calling 911 to plead for help — because Arredondo determined that Ramos had transitioned from an active shooter to a barricaded hostage-taker.”

https://news.yahoo.com/uvalde-shooting-incident-commander-had-192823891.html

But then again I was not there and like everybody else will have to wait until the facts come out,otherwise it would be to easy for me to second guess every move without having that first hand knowledge.

[sirrealone]

I do NOT understand how people keep trying to compare someone with a knife to someone with a gun that has a clip with 20 or 30 rounds in it. Do they think that anyone can reuse a knife 20 times to kill people in the amount of time that a gun will do the job? Or that they can throw a knife accurately from the distance a gun shoots from? It is apples and oranges.

Exactly. I seem to remember a day when a group of heroic passengers on a plane proved that when you group together, you can overpower a knifeman.

[southen]

But then again I was not there and like everybody else will have to wait until the facts come out,otherwise it would be to easy for me to second guess every move without having that first hand knowledge.

Says the guy who constantly puts out conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence. Lmao.

Isn't it fascinated that when it involves the Left you have no issue with wild speculation with no basis in reality but if it involves the Right everyone must wait until they get all of the facts. It is almost as if you have a narrative...

[Maof]

The guy walked up and shot two of the school police before entering the building.

This happened at the Uvalde shooting?

[Richard]

Says the guy who constantly puts out conspiracy theories without a shred of evidence. Lmao.

Isn't it fascinated that when it involves the Left you have no issue with wild speculation with no basis in reality but if it involves the Right everyone must wait until they get all of the facts. It is almost as if you have a narrative...

I provided the facts that disputed the false narrative that you repeated,all you had to do was provide your own facts to dispute that,but you could not,so you made it about me.

Thats weak.

[Richard]

This happened at the Uvalde shooting?

But CNN reporter Natasha Bertrand tweeted on Tuesday night: "Sgt. Erick Estrada of the Texas Dept of Public Safety tells @andersoncooper the shooter crashed his car near the school, got out with a gun and wearing body armor, was engaged by law enforcement, but made his way into the school anyway and went classroom to classroom shooting."

https://www.newsweek.com/officers-en...ooting-1709870

Some of those officers were shot," Olivarez continued. "So at that point they began breaking windows around the school trying to evacuate children, teachers, anybody they could, trying to get them out of that building."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-sch...salvador-ramos

The mass shooter then fired at a school district security officer, ran inside the elementary school and shot at two arriving Uvalde police officers outside the building, according to a Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson, who added that all three officers were injured.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/25/police...killing-spree/


What it looks like is they knew he was on his way and multiple officers were headed that way and got there as soon as he did and he shot his way in.

It’s a small town with 11,000 residents? Interesting how they have an entire school police force.

The break down seems to be in communications,people calling 911 and 911 dispatch unable to communicate at the beginning with officers at the scene.

There was another report that the officer in charge did not qualify for a radio that connected the regular police with the school police.

There are also reports that it was border patrol agents that breached the school organized,they would have had communications where they could have begun an organized room to room search.

There seems to be some confusion as to the definition of “police” when it comes to the school “police” force as to what their role is as actual “police” .

So there are multiple agencies on scene at the same time but none of them with the ability to communicate with each other in order to become organized in a timely manner.

What it looks like is with LEO as a whole needs to have a dedicated communication channel where in an emergency it would tie them all together because,as it stands they all have different radio systems that operate on different frequencies.

I am thinking that schools can implement an emergency lockdown system,where like in this case,the officer radios the main office and push a button that automatically locks every classroom door,the shooter would have been denied entry to any classroom and as he spent time looking for random victims it would have bought time for a response.

But there are also reports that LEO spent time finding somebody with a key in order to excess parts of the school that had locked doors.

But until it is investigated and the timeline that spells out the chain of events, it is hard to even come up with a preventative solution,which is going to be difficult because every school and situation is going to be unique on its own.

Everytime something happens it turns into a gun debate,when 80% of children deaths surround suicide with a gun,the first thing they do is hold an emergency House hearing in order to establish new gun laws and nothing about the insane suicide rate.

To me anyways it continues to be about the gun and little to do with the motivation behind the use of it as a means to an end.

[southen]

I provided the facts that disputed the false narrative that you repeated,all you had to do was provide your own facts to dispute that,but you could not,so you made it about me.

Thats weak.

What is weak is having one set of standards for yourself and another for anyone that may disagree with you.

[Richard]

What is weak is having one set of standards for yourself and another for anyone that may disagree with you.

You can disagree with me all you like,it is a discussion,but when you are presented with facts and instead of disputing those facts you turn it on me personally,that is not disagreeing with me,I did not write the facts,you are supposed to provide your own facts that dispute the ones presented.

Maybe if you held yourself to a higher standard?

[southen]

You can disagree with me all you like,it is a discussion,but when you are presented with facts and instead of disputing those facts you turn it on me personally,that is not disagreeing with me,I did not write the facts,you are supposed to provide your own facts that dispute the ones presented.

Maybe if you held yourself to a higher standard?

Actually you said people shouldn't speculate. It has nothing to do with your facts but how you choose to frame the argument as it suits you. On this issue people shouldn't speculate. On other issues though there isn't a conspiracy theory too stupid for you to toss out there.

If you are the standard then perhaps I should write 40 paragraphs with only 2 of them being on topic and toss out some made up ideas of the subject.

[Richard]

Actually you said people shouldn't speculate. It has nothing to do with your facts but how you choose to frame the argument as it suits you. On this issue people shouldn't speculate. On other issues though there isn't a conspiracy theory too stupid for you to toss out there.

If you are the standard then perhaps I should write 40 paragraphs with only 2 of them being on topic and toss out some made up ideas of the subject.

“But then again I was not there and like everybody else will have to wait until the facts come out,otherwise it would be to easy for me to second guess every move without having that first hand knowledge.”


Those are the words I wrote that you quoted and are basing your entire rant on.

I would suggest you get your story straight first before starting a pissing contest.

Show me where I posted people should not speculate.

spec·u·late


/ˈspek[[y)əˌlāt/


verb

• 1.form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence:

second-guess

vb1. to criticize or evaluate with hindsight
2. to attempt to anticipate or predict [[a person or thing)


your words

Isn't it fascinated that when it involves the Left you have no issue with wild speculation with no basis in reality but if it involves the Right everyone must wait until they get all of the facts. It is almost as if you have a narrative...


So you planted your own narrative in your head and ran with it after taking something out of context.

Once again,I posted links to back up my post ,do you have anything with substance to offer?

[Gistok]

^ Richard, for someone that thinks "sure" is spelled "shure".... and accept/except sense/since have the same meaning... do you really think it is a good idea for you to lecture others on word meanings??

[Zacha341]

6/9/2022 News:'Potential intruder' fatally shot by police outside Alabama elementary school...

School resource officer shoots 'suspicious man' dead after he tried to enter a locked school...

[Rocket]

Lately I've been wondering how much of this increased violence could be from the vac ci nes.

The DMED data shows a nearly TEN fold increase in neurological disorders among the vax'd [as well as a 21 times increase in people with hypertension [systolic BP above 140]].

My casual observation of coworkers who were and were not vax'd seems to back this up. The couple that were are more moody, and a bit depressed, and now have high blood pressure. Both seeing BP increases from the low 130's to the high 180's, all starting the week after getting the shot, and they've stayed that way for months now. Perhaps the moodiness is from not getting sleep? High BP will keep a person awake.

Bottom line, are we doomed to suffer through a MUCH more violent society for the next 30 years?

The number of people I see loosing their "S" these days is dramatically increased from what it was in 2019.

[canuck]

^ Richard, for someone that thinks "sure" is spelled "shure".... and accept/except sense/since have the same meaning... do you really think it is a good idea for you to lecture others on word meanings??

The short answer is no, unfortunately, I fear the
l o n g answer will be yes…

PS: I also like his use of collage for college. Priceless.

[canuck]

Lately I've been wondering how much of this increased violence could be from the vac ci nes.

The DMED data shows a nearly TEN fold increase in neurological disorders among the vax'd [as well as a 21 times increase in people with hypertension [systolic BP above 140]].

My casual observation of coworkers who were and were not vax'd seems to back this up. The couple that were are more moody, and a bit depressed, and now have high blood pressure. Both seeing BP increases from the low 130's to the high 180's, all starting the week after getting the shot, and they've stayed that way for months now. Perhaps the moodiness is from not getting sleep? High BP will keep a person awake.

Bottom line, are we doomed to suffer through a MUCH more violent society for the next 30 years?

The number of people I see loosing their "S" these days is dramatically increased from what it was in 2019.

Your stats look pretty kosher to me. I’m impressed.


Did you use a gun scope or a stethoscope to check their heartbeats?

[Rocket]

Your stats look pretty kosher to me. I’m impressed.

Did you use a gun scope or a stethoscope to check their heartbeats?

LOL, No. But after they missed a day of work each of a couple different weeks to go to the doctors, they shared with me what their doctors found.

Not good.

And the stats were from the U.S. military's DMED system, as testified to before the US Senate in January. All readily available.