School Shooting at Oxford High School

[Henry Whalley]

Good God.... I went to Detroit Public Schools is the 1960's and do not remember anything like that...

Agreed, it seems that this country broke in the 1960s. Now the world sees us as the greatest threat to the survival of the species. A civilization that's running on fumes.

[ABetterDetroit]

No compromise can be made? We couldn’t end the manufacturing or importation of magazines that hold more than 10 rounds? I know that there are millions of them out there but we surely don’t need millions more. Eventually it would save lives at mass shootings when high capacity magazines weren’t sold with every semi-automatic and easily obtainable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI0TvX0eDRs

[softailrider]

Lots of kids grow up around firearms. Maybe they go target shooting or trap shooting or hunting with their parents. There's a lot of kids who are familiar with firearms and don't go shooting up their High School. Parents have to monitor their kids, these parents failed.

[Ray1936]

Lots of kids grow up around firearms. Maybe they go target shooting or trap shooting or hunting with their parents. There's a lot of kids who are familiar with firearms and don't go shooting up their High School. Parents have to monitor their kids, these parents failed.

Yup. With a population of, what, 330 million or so? There's gonna be some wackos that drop through the caution screens and go bonkers. I'm more worried about the killer comet coming from Andromeda, frankly.

[Hermod]

The problem is that when a kid reaches "the end of his tether" and decides he wants to endit all, some want to go out in a blaze of glory.

My prediction, "Guilty as charged on all accounts" but major tearfest from the defense about bullying and emotional abuse during the penalty phase. He will get something much less than life in prison.

[ABetterDetroit]

Lots of kids grow up around firearms. Maybe they go target shooting or trap shooting or hunting with their parents. There's a lot of kids who are familiar with firearms and don't go shooting up their High School. Parents have to monitor their kids, these parents failed.

I understand that. You make perfect sense. It doesn’t change the fact that America has a gun homicide rate far higher than any other first world nation. Why does ‘nothing’ have to be done about that fact? We can’t even stop ghost gun kits from being sold over the internet? Convicted felons are buying the damn things for Gods sake. A simple background check on who purchases firearms a problem? Again, no other first world country addresses weapons in their society with a “I haven’t had my kid killed yet so I don’t give a shit” attitude. A little empathy for families of victims would go far.

Fortifying all public spaces and militarizing every police force is fucking expensive. Some common sense could save us a shit load in taxes down the road.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/us/ky...her/index.html

[Richard]

Yup. With a population of, what, 330 million or so? There's gonna be some wackos that drop through the caution screens and go bonkers. I'm more worried about the killer comet coming from Andromeda, frankly.

In the United States,11 Teenagers are killed while texting and driving every day. This number doesn’t include anyone else in the car, only teen drivers killed while texting and driving.

https://www.simplyinsurance.com/text...mp-1764e1c02f6

Teen drivers killed nearly 3,500 people from 2013 to 2017, according to a new study by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. The AAA looked at the period it calls "100 Deadliest Days" -- from Memorial Day to Labor Day.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/thousands-...ry?id=63345650

We could save 11 teenagers lives and another 25 innocent lives that were taken out in the process everyday.

if it was really about saving kids they would have been banning cars and cellphones long ago.

But because the majority do not want to give up their cellphones,those 36 daily lost lives are meaningless or worth it.

[Richard]

Lots of kids grow up around firearms. Maybe they go target shooting or trap shooting or hunting with their parents. There's a lot of kids who are familiar with firearms and don't go shooting up their High School. Parents have to monitor their kids, these parents failed.

anybody that has raised teenagers or was a teenagers know what it is like,little house on the prairie was a show on television.

They say up to 80% families in the United States are disfunctional,a lot of that has to do with both parents working,if it is a two parent family,of a single parent situation not being able to spend enough time with their children.

How much control does a parent actually have over a teenager?

Problem children in school is not a new thing,in our high school it was not uncommon for trucks to be sitting in the parking lots with loaded rifles in them,nobody ever even thought about picking one up and shooting up a school.

With the everyday violence in society,music and television one can only isolate their child so much,when they reach their teenage years,parents are not really in control of their environment,they can in the household,but as soon as that kid steps out the door,they have now become influenced by the world.

What classifies as a failed parent? Once that kid decides to take a certain path,no matter what their upbringing is if they choose the wrong path all of that upbringing goes out the window.

I think society as rule has lost its moral ground,this is just a symptom of.

[Richard]

Apparently Richard is selective in his backing of law enforcement.

apparently you are selective in what is spelled out in the constitution,I think it is hilarious how there are repeated posts about the make up of what constitutes a gun owner or their political leanings.

It just shows how most will put their personal narrative above common sense.

Show me the link where the sheriff has stated that the parents purchased the gun for the teenager.

You guys have said it several times,and used it as a basis,is it to much to ask to show that?

I do not care what the teenager said on social media,because we already know people like to talk shit on social media.

Contrary to the narratives being presented,I do not own any guns,but I swore a oath to protect the constitution of the United States as many have done in the past,are doing in present and will be doing in the future and if I was willing to sacrifice my life to protect that constitution and in exchange for others lives so they could live,I am sure not going to lay down while others piss all over it because they do not like it personally.

I do not care how triggered anybody is over guns,as long as it is spelled out in that constitution,that’s the rule,people can bitch and moan and call everybody that follows the constitution a POS all they want,it does not change a thing.

You and Brock,show me the link where the sheriffs department has stated the parents bought the gun for their child.

If you cannot do that you are spreading fake and false information intentionally in order to fan the flames.

YouTube goes out of its way to stifle anything conservative or negativity towards the current president.

But they have no problem allowing videos that provides music to shoot a school up by.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jtlF-QgFzY

This is the kind of crap these teenagers are watching.

[oladub]

This should be the very least of any charges:


Michigan authorities consider charges against the school shooting suspect's parents
NPR|11 minutes ago
Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said that the parents of the suspect failed to keep a recently purchased firearm out of the hands of their son, who is accused of killing four classmates.

An interesting idea if society still believes parents are responsible for their children's behavior. Absentee dads and single moms should be held accountable too. However, since parents have been pushed around lately losing power to school boards and the federal government, it might be more difficult to hold them liable for what their kids do.

Yesterday, my post #23 in this thread read in part, 'There are around 55 million school children in the United States, and on average over the past 25 years, about 10 students per year were killed by gunfire at school.' I've been wondering what causes of death were more significant that the average of 10 deaths a year from school shootings. I'm thinking that there must be a lot more children and teens dying from car accidents than from school shootings. I found a government link

https://wisqars.cdc.gov/fatal-leading

that allows ages, race and sexes to be inputed for the 10 largest causes of death. I chose the 14-17 age group, all races and both sexes in 2019; the last complete year before COVID. Those who died in the Oxford high school were from 14-17 years old. This is the result:

1) unintentional accidents 1,620 [[includes 1002 MV traffic, 183 poisoning, 148 drowning...)
2) suicide 1,308
3) homicide 796 [[The average of 10 annual in school killings would be included in this number)
4)Malignant Neoplasms 409
5)heart disease 163
6) congenital abnormalities 137
7) influenza and pneumonia 45
8) cerebro-vascular 44
9) chronic low respritory disease 39
10) Septicemi 29

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

apparently you are selective in what is spelled out in the constitution,I think it is hilarious how there are repeated posts about the make up of what constitutes a gun owner or their political leanings.

It just shows how most will put their personal narrative above common sense.

Show me the link where the sheriff has stated that the parents purchased the gun for the teenager.

You guys have said it several times,and used it as a basis,is it to much to ask to show that?

I do not care what the teenager said on social media,because we already know people like to talk shit on social media.

Contrary to the narratives being presented,I do not own any guns,but I swore a oath to protect the constitution of the United States as many have done in the past,are doing in present and will be doing in the future and if I was willing to sacrifice my life to protect that constitution and in exchange for others lives so they could live,I am sure not going to lay down while others piss all over it because they do not like it personally.

I do not care how triggered anybody is over guns,as long as it is spelled out in that constitution,that’s the rule,people can bitch and moan and call everybody that follows the constitution a POS all they want,it does not change a thing.

You and Brock,show me the link where the sheriffs department has stated the parents bought the gun for their child.

If you cannot do that you are spreading fake and false information intentionally in order to fan the flames.

YouTube goes out of its way to stifle anything conservative or negativity towards the current president.

But they have no problem allowing videos that provides music to shoot a school up by.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jtlF-QgFzY

This is the kind of crap these teenagers are watching.

show me where I said they bought the gun for their creep of a son.

And while you’re “defending the constitution” please find out what “well regulated militia” daddy is a member of.

[Richard]

show me where I said they bought the gun for their creep of a son.

And while you’re “defending the constitution” please find out what “well regulated militia” daddy is a member of.

Originally Posted by MikeM
Is the statement to that fact by the sheriff good enough for you or will you continue to bloviate?



Apparently Richard is selective in his backing of law enforcement.
…………….

You quoted an intentionally false statement and agreed with its narrative.

Is it really that difficult to understand,or you just figured you would throw my name out there in order to gain some relevance in your mind.

The sheriffs update is posted on YouTube and he clearly says they have not addressed that aspect yet as of today.

As for the rest,you are a smart guy apparently,go ask him yourself or are you scared?

Sense you think you already have all of the facts,why are you even asking?

I would be willing to bet you would never pick up a weapon in defense of your country or the constitution,you would expect everybody else to do it for you so you can continue to exist off of the backs of everybody else.

It is interesting to me anyways how some with that mindset moved away when the city was down,the city they choose to move to has now turned to crap while Detroit continues to climb after they left ,it speaks volumes.

Consistently a part of the problem and never a part of the solution.

The main reasons for the sheriffs update today was dealing with the fake,false information and inuendos being spread on social media that was causing more distress and resources while dealing with them,including a jump in false shooting claims that have popped up in the last few days that also had to be investigated.

The biggest concern that was also brought up was why the school did not contact the sheriffs department when they thought there was a credible problem.

Of course that same reporter could have easily had his answer had he gone back to the Florida school shooting and the fired school superintendent that had transferred from California,and implemented the do not call LEO when crimes are committed,so the offenders would not have a record.

Seems like in California they believe if a male student tries to rape a female student,the best way to handle that is to sit him down in front of his peers,so they can tell him that is not a nice thing to do,while not calling LEO so it gets on record after he does it several times in a row.

Seems like the only way they will call LEO,is when it is to late and the school has already been shot up,then blame the LEO and guns.

Maybe that is why you are so quick to divert to the evil guns as the culprit,it keeps you from having to admit the policies that you support costs lives needlessly and takes the focus off of your agenda.

If I took the same stance as you,I would say that you are just as culpable,because you support the policies put in place in the school systems across this country that removes LEOs ability to properly investigate and provide a risk assessment that could have very well had stopped this shooting.

That is the trade off you supported,in order to keep a teenage student from having a felony record,for committing a felony on school property,it is not reported to law enforcement,in exchange you now have dead students.

And how many other students that have been traumatized by bullying and assaults and pushed to the edge,because the school would not report it.

A school is not an institution that should be allowed to be judge jury and executioner when felonies occur on school property,that is not their job,that is the job of LEO.

FTR here is the Sheriffs response today that the poster that you knowingly quoted and jumped on that bandwagon of false narrative,that I asked him to provide and he could not do it.

Read the quote you quoted again after watching that,maybe next think before you are so quick to jump on a false narrative.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8Wdn2NBUwc

[Zacha341]

I attended Murray-Wright HS back in the day [late 70s' - early 80s']. One can argue M-W 'set it off' hard with gun violence garnering the school the nick-name of Murder-RIGHT! I stayed clear of the violence while there, keeping to myself as most of the violence was distinctly gang or drug related [not of the style of Oxford, Columbine etc]. Murray-Wright withstanding its rough reputation for shootings and stabbings had awesome career tech options [that I availed myself of as an art/ drafting focus].

Murray-Wright was also one of the first Detroit Public Schools to have metal detectors and DPD on premises well before DPSCD would have their own internal policing department. All DPSCD High Schools have metal detectors to date and policing department/ patrols:

https://www.detroitk12.org/Page/11807

From link below:
The Detroit Public Schools Community District Police Department [DPSCD-PD] is the only MCOLES certified, fully-functioning school-based police department in the State of Michigan...

https://www.detroitk12.org/Page/7058

Murray-Wright High School [Closed in 2007]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray...ht_High_School

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/04...4536545544000/

Good God.... I went to Detroit Public Schools is the 1960's and do not remember anything like that. Not everybody was Mr. and Mrs. Nice Guy all the time, but I do not remember any knifings or shooting or gang fights at all.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

This is what happens when the right to bear arms, falls into the hands of the wrong people. Has the NRA even came out with a statement? Hell Naw. His parents should be charged.

[softailrider]

I attended Murray-Wright HS back in the day [late 70s' - early 80s']. One can argue M-W 'set it off' hard with gun violence garnering the school the nick-name of Murder-RIGHT! I stayed clear of the violence while there, keeping to myself as most of the violence was distinctly gang or drug related [not of the style of Oxford, Columbine etc]. Murray-Wright withstanding its rough reputation for shootings and stabbings had awesome career tech options [that I availed myself of as an art/ drafting focus].

Murray-Wright was also one of the first Detroit Public Schools to have metal detectors and DPD on premises well before DPSCD would have their own internal policing department. All DPSCD High Schools have metal detectors to date and policing department/ patrols:

https://www.detroitk12.org/Page/11807

From link below:
The Detroit Public Schools Community District Police Department [DPSCD-PD] is the only MCOLES certified, fully-functioning school-based police department in the State of Michigan...

https://www.detroitk12.org/Page/7058

Murray-Wright High School [Closed in 2007]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray...ht_High_School

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/04...4536545544000/

I was out of DPS in 1968, we lived on Littlefield and we moved. I can't speak of what the district was like after that. I can only say that during the 1960's I can remember no violence or overtly abhorrent behavior at the school I went to. It was a long time ago but that kind of activity is something you don't forget.

[Maof]

This is what happens when the right to bear arms, falls into the hands of the wrong people. Has the NRA even came out with a statement? Hell Naw. His parents should be charged.

Hoping so. News conference at noon today.

[CassTechGrad]

Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

[Zacha341]

Indeed. It was stressful for my parents no doubt when I was going thru HS at the height of some of Detroit's notorious gang wars. Students shouldn't have to try learn in that context, etc. And yet here we are. From a time when gun training was part of some schools, to mass murder by students with guns.

This speaks to broader cultural shifts; the devolution of values including the appreciation of life - the increasing negative angst in the minds of some students [often affirmed in social media]. They're trying to navigate their place therein. I've work with teens - noting increasing emotional and social problems. Some stemming from seeming endless options they are bombarded with [of which many aren't equipped to handle - despite being steered/ told they are].

So many [the teen years in particular] are isolated, captive to their ever-present devices [smart phones, etc]. Alone, in very dark thoughts and ideas needing to be challenged. But to do that you have to have a standard! And well, we're too progressive for all of that!? Problems sometimes starts in the home - that is not always healthy. As it seems in this particular case and tragedy.

I was out of DPS in 1968, we lived on Littlefield and we moved. I can't speak of what the district was like after that. I can only say that during the 1960's I can remember no violence or overtly abhorrent behavior at the school I went to. It was a long time ago but that kind of activity is something you don't forget.

[MikeM]

Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.

How freaking stupid. You think firearm "safety" lessons has anything to do with preventing school shootings? Like - did you think this kid accidentally shot 11 kids?

[Zacha341]

^ Indeed that was a different time and culture. For example, my parents owned firearms. I was shown basic safety from my father at a point - they were locked. Gun ownership was not a subject that we dwelled upon [or any kind of fetish 'firearm obsession' as some assert all firearm ownership to be].

These registered weapons were for safety/ protection in our home living in Detroit. It was/ is an option I still support for those so wanting it.

[Rocket]

I'm wondering what sort of drugs the doctors had this child on? Seems that most of the time, these shooters are on anti-depressants of some sort.


The Columbine shooter that killed 13 and wounded 23 was on Zoloft and Luvox
The Red Lake MN shooter that killed 10 and wounded 14 more was on Prozak
The Northern IL. University shooter that killed 6 and wounded 21 was on Prozac, Xanax, and Ambien
The Batman movie killer [killed 12, wounded 70] was on sertraline
The Navy Yard shooter was on trazodone
The Fort Hood shooter was taking SSRI's
Charlton church shooter was on suboxone
Cascade mall shooter [killed 5] was on Prozac
This shooter in Las Vegas, [58 dead, 500 wounded] was on undisclosed anti-anxiety meds. [We have to wait 50 years to find out what because of HIPPA.]


Of course Big Pharma is perhaps the news media's biggest advertiser, [some $6.6 BILLION annually], so they're not going to mention this.

[bartocktoo]

Maybe it's me, but in the midst of all of this 2nd Amendment, bullying [[please), DPS schools in the 1960s talk I am failing to see more than peripheral relevance to this scenario.

I think even the most self-esteemed would agree that nearly everyone - young, old, in between - is in incapable of plotting and committing such a horrible crime as this.

Gun control is certainly an issue. Whether dad purchased the gun [[the overwhelming evidence is that he did...ignore the contra opinion) or not, the fact is that it was known that he had it, known that he had a plan to kill students, and known that the school and other students were concerned about what this kid might do. There was apparently a meeting with school officials, the parents, and this kid on the morning of the shooting at the school. If this is all true, how in the hell was he allowed to be at school that day and until a full investigation into everything was commenced and completed. The threats were real, and that was enough to suspend him. Any issue with his parents and the motives and the firearm, etc., could have been explored and possibly/probably avoided this tragedy. I am trying to figure out how all of these so-called precautions were in place, yet not carried out all the way through in order to hopefully prevent what they were designed to prevent. That is very troubling.

[Meddle]

Parents charged, 4 counts of manslaughter.

[Scottathew]

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...to-get-caught/

The highlights:
- Parents bought the gun for the kid as an early Christmas present
- Parents knew he was searching about ammunition on his phone
- Mom texted son to "LOL, don't get caught" looking up ammunition at school
- Parents knew the son had made violent drawings of his gun in school
- Parents knew the son had wrote over the drawings "Help me", "My life is useless", "The world is dead", "Blood everywhere"
- Even after knowing all of the above, they still did NOT secure the fucking gun
- After the parents knew a shooting at the high school occurred the mother texted her son "Ethan, don't do it"
- After hearing of the shooting the father checked for the gun at his house, couldn't find it, and called 911 to notify authorities that his son might be the shooter

Screw these people. So many warning signs. But loving their guns was more important. Here's an early Christmas present, nothing celebrates Jesus more than this modern killing machine. At least the dad tried to help once he knew the gun was missing, but that was until AFTER he knew a mass shooting happened.

OXFORD, Mich. – The teenager charged in the Oxford High School shooting was caught by a teacher looking up ammunition during class the day before, and when his mother was told, she texted him not to get caught, according to authorities.Friday in court, Tim Willis, a lieutenant with the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office, provided more details about the days leading up to the shooting.
Gun purchase

He said Ethan Crumbley, 15, went with his father, James Crumbley, on Nov. 26 to purchase a 9 mm Sig Sauer handgun. Later that day, Ethan Crumbley posted photos of the gun on social media with the caption, “Just got my new beauty today,” police said.
On Nov. 27, his mother, Jennifer Crumbley, posted on social media, “Mom and son day, testing out his new X-mas present,” according to authorities.
Teacher sees student looking up ammunition

The day before the shooting -- Monday, Nov. 29 -- a teacher at Oxford High School saw something that caused some concern, according to Willis.


“On 11/29/21, a teacher at Oxford High School observed Ethan Crumbley searching ammunition on his cellphone during class and reported seeing it to school officials,” Willis said in court. “Jennifer Crumbley was contacted via voicemail by school personnel regarding their son’s inappropriate internet search.
“School personnel indicated they followed that voicemail up with an email, but received no response from either parent.
“Thereafter, Jennifer Crumbley exchanged text messages about the incident with her son, where she stated, ‘LOL I’m not mad. You have to learn not to get caught.’”
Meeting over disturbing drawing

On Wednesday, Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard revealed school officials had met with both parents Tuesday morning -- just hours before the shooting.


“We have since learned that the schools did have contact with the student the day before and the day of the shooting for behavior in the classroom that they felt was concerning,” Bouchard said. “In fact, the parents were brought in the morning of the shooting and had a face-to-face meeting with the school.”

• Superintendent: ‘No discipline was warranted’ for student before Oxford High School shooting
• ‘It’s like a war zone’: Superintendent describes state of Oxford High School, next steps after shooting

Willis provided more context about that meeting Friday in court:
“The morning of the shooting, Ethan Crumbley’s teacher came upon a note on Ethan’s desk, which alarmed her to the point that she took a picture of it on her phone,” Willis said. “The note contained the following: a drawing of a semi-automatic handgun pointed at the words, ‘The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.’ In another section of the note was a drawing of a bullet with the following words above that bullet: ‘Blood everywhere.’ Between the drawing of the gun and the bullet is the drawing of a person who appears to have been shot twice and bleeding. Below that figure is the drawing of a laughing emoji. Further down the drawing are the words, ‘My life is useless,’ and to the right of those words are, ‘The world is dead.’”


School officials said this drawing prompted the 10 a.m. meeting with both parents. A school counselor went to the classroom, removed Ethan Crumbley and brought him into the office with his backpack, according to police.
“The counselor obtained the drawing, but Ethan had altered it,” Willis said. “The drawings of the gun and the bloody figure were scratched out, along with the words, ‘Help me,’ and, ‘My life is useless,’ ‘The world is dead,’ and, ‘Blood everywhere.’ They were all scratched out.”
At the meeting, the parents were shown the drawing and told that both were required to get their son into counseling within 48 hours, according to Willis.
“Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask Ethan if he had his gun with him, or where his gun was located, and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun,” he said.
Officials said the parents “resisted the idea of Ethan leaving the school at that time.” They left the building without their son, authorities said.


On Friday, a prosecutor issued four charges of involuntary manslaughter against both parents.
Shooting, aftermath

Willis said that when news of the active shooter at Oxford High School became public, Jennifer Crumbley texted her son at 1:22 p.m., “Ethan, don’t do it.”
At 1:37 p.m., James Crumbley called 9-1-1 to report that a gun was missing from his house and he believed his son might be the shooter, according to authorities.
“Further investigation revealed that the Sig Sauer 9 mm handgun purchased by James Crumbley was stored, unlocked in a drawer in James and Jennifer’s bedroom,” Willis said. “The gun recovered from Ethan Crumbley after the shooting was the same gun that was purchased by James Crumbley on 11/26/21 in the presence of Ethan.”


The shooting left four students dead and seven people injured, officials said. Ethan Crumbley is facing four counts of first-degree murder, seven counts of assault with intent to murder and 12 counts of possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony. He is being charged as an adult.
He is being held without bond at the Oakland County Jail. On Friday, police were given a warrant to take his parents into custody on the involuntary manslaughter charges.

[Meddle]

'No discipline warranted'?

He should have been taken into custody and sent to a mental crisis center.