School Shooting at Oxford High School

**Zacha341** · December-03-21, 02:35 PM

Sounds pretty doggone indulgent [the parents constantly blocking for the teen].

Not to be too psychiatric about this, but having worked with and mentored teenagers [and having been a parent], it's interesting how some parents do not see how 'overindulgence' can be a problem as bad as neglect! If you can't say no, and set clear boundaries for a three-year old, you sure won't be able to for a 13+ year old [far too late]. Especially not in this culture!

The effective parents job [starting early] is to affirm that which builds good character [oh how corny

in the face of our new modernity], cultivate an interest in learning [being mindful and attentive of what they're learning], core civility [No, the world DOES NOT revolve around you son/ daughter/ non-binary, etc.], and teaching them how to live with others [socialization beyond the damn online 'devices'!], dovetailing that with the understanding of respect of self and others, etc. Instead we have a case of indulging children w/o question [on to teenager status] towards, in this instance, very destructive outcomes.

Seems to have been little challenge from the parents with so many signs of dysfunction present. Indeed they were busy blocking, and catering...

Originally Posted by Scottathew

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...to-get-caught/

The highlights:
- Parents bought the gun for the kid as an early Christmas present
- Parents knew he was searching about ammunition on his phone
- Mom texted son to "LOL, don't get caught" looking up ammunition at school
- Parents knew the son had made violent drawings of his gun in school
- Parents knew the son had wrote over the drawings "Help me", "My life is useless", "The world is dead", "Blood everywhere"
- Even after knowing all of the above, they still did NOT secure the fucking gun
- After the parents knew a shooting at the high school occurred the mother texted her son "Ethan, don't do it"
- After hearing of the shooting the father checked for the gun at his house, couldn't find it, and called 911 to notify authorities that his son might be the shooter

... So many warning signs. But loving their guns was more important. Here's an early Christmas present, nothing celebrates Jesus more than this modern killing machine. At least the dad tried to help once he knew the gun was missing, but that was until AFTER he knew a mass shooting happened.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-03-21, 03:03 PM

I didn’t see anywhere that access to a gun was even asked about, and if not, why not?!?!?

Presumably at the school meetings the parents decided to not mention that they’d just armed the kid.

**Richard** · December-03-21, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Sounds pretty doggone indulgent [the parents constantly blocking for the teen].

Not to be too psychiatric about this, but having worked with and mentored teenagers [and having been a parent], I don't understand how some parents do not see how 'overindulgence' can be a problem as bad as neglect! If you can't say no, and have boundaries for a three-year old, you sure won't be able to set them for a 13+ year old.

The effective parents job [starting early] is to affirm that which builds good character [oh how corny

that seems in the face of our new modernity], cultivate an interest in learning [being mindful of what they are learning], core civility [No, the world DOES NOT revolve around you son/ daughter], and teaching them how to live with others [proper socialization beyond the damn 'devices'!], dovetailing that with understanding respect of self and others, etc. Instead we have a case of indulging children w/o question [on to teenager status] towards, in this instance, very destructive outcomes.

There seemed to have be very little challenge from the parents when so many signs of dysfunction were present. Indeed they were busy blocking, catering and indulging....

I think it is a bit more complex then calling it blocking,catering and indulging on the parents part,on the surface anyways.

A parent will always do that for their child or be biased on what they see,we have all known spoiled brats where their parents think they are perfect little angels.

Without a degree in psychology,teenagers are the hardest to deal with and subject daily whims and as they discover independence they are not as home as much and not in the parents scope like they were as children.

I think the worst part is the part where parents strive to be their child’s friend and do things or overlook things while trying to bring them closer.

**Rocket** · December-03-21, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Sounds pretty doggone indulgent

Not to be too psychiatric about this, but having worked with and mentored teenagers [and having been a parent], it's interesting how some parents do not see how 'overindulgence' can be a problem as bad as neglect!.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Amazing how many people take their parenting advice from that moron Dr. Spock, [whose son killed himself].

It's hard to discipline your child. It's easy to be lazy and let stuff go, but the parent's laziness [or absence] will spell the child's doom.

**Zacha341** · December-03-21, 03:14 PM

It is. That is why I said I did not not want to be 'too psychiatric' about it.

Also, you can do ALL the right things and kids still go wrong. Should parents bear the full weight to the level of jail? Is that going to be a retrograde action? How does that work if the teen is being charged as adult??

Anyway, if you don't even try FOR SURE don't be surprised with outcomes.

And teens can be very difficult. You have to like the age-group and their emerging level and ability [per their age] to reason and think, if challenged to do so [different from work with say K8]. I like the teen-age group for that -- helping them towards success as adults.

Originally Posted by Richard

I think it is a bit more complex then calling it blocking, catering and indulging on the parents part,on the surface anyways.

A parent will always do that for their child or be biased on what they see,we have all known spoiled brats where their parents think they are perfect little angels.

Without a degree in psychology,teenagers are the hardest to deal with and subject daily whims and as they discover independence they are not as home as much and not in the parents scope like they were as children.

I think the worst part is the part where parents strive to be their child’s friend and do things or overlook things while trying to bring them closer.

**Meddle** · December-03-21, 03:15 PM

Did Tricky Dicky just agree with something?

**Zacha341** · December-03-21, 03:16 PM

And well if your own compass is broken you can hardly guide/ help the child.

The gun should have been secured in the household.

Originally Posted by Rocket

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Amazing how many people take their parenting advice from that moron Dr. Spock, [whose son killed himself].

It's hard to discipline your child. It's easy to be lazy and let stuff go, but the parent's laziness [or absence] will spell the child's doom.

**Meddle** · December-03-21, 03:25 PM

What's this about Mom and Pop on the lam?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-03-21, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

What's this about Mom and Pop on the lam?

Yes, police are searching for them. According to CNN U.S. Marshalls and the FBI are involved.

**Ray1936** · December-03-21, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

What's this about Mom and Pop on the lam?

Time to get outa Dodge.

**NSortzi** · December-03-21, 04:01 PM

So its been public knowledge that the parents might be charged since, what, the day after the shooting? And yet law enforcement wasn't watching them? They could be days away by now. How embarrassing.

**Henry Whalley** · December-03-21, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

How freaking stupid. You think firearm "safety" lessons has anything to do with preventing school shootings? Like - did you think this kid accidentally shot 11 kids?

Agreed, CassTechGrad's post was a non sequi turd.

P.S. The Heart, She Holler

**Meddle** · December-03-21, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Time to get outa Dodge.

In the Dodge?

.

**Henry Whalley** · December-03-21, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

In the Dodge?

Is that Al Bundy?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-03-21, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by NSortzi

So its been public knowledge that the parents might be charged since, what, the day after the shooting? And yet law enforcement wasn't watching them? They could be days away by now. How embarrassing.

Perhaps because they don’t fit the demographic that law enforcement is suspicious of.

**oladub** · December-03-21, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Parents charged, 4 counts of manslaughter.

Good, maybe that will inspire more parents to lock up their guns. But why stop there? What about the racist guy in Waukesha who plowed down 40 people and killed six including children who was released after running over his child's mother? Lock up his father and mother too and that D.A. too. Notice how that story of the car "crash" was wedged out of the news by this story with fewer being killed or wounded. How about the parents of minors who were arrested on Jan. 6 or any BLM/antifa rally? Those parents should be charged too. Track down absentee fathers and charge single mothers too. If they failed in their job of parenting, arrest them. The law should be consistent.

A month ago, a father was arrested for complaining to his Loudoun VA school board that his daughter was assaulted by a boy dressed up like a girl in a school bathroom. Perhaps the assaulter's parents and that school board should be charged because its flakey board policy make this possible.

**southen** · December-03-21, 05:08 PM

Oooooo a reworking of the "lets ban cars then" argument. These parents purchased a deadly weapon for a 15 year old and encouraged him to skirt the rules of his school in an incident that involved the weapon. Clearly this kid was troubled, so why not buy him an instrument of death for the holidays and keep it loosely in a desk drawer... Sure, no culpability there...

How about this. Show me a text from the parents of the guy who ran over people in Virginia saying "Enjoy this car sweetie, now go hit some protestors" and maybe I will listen but until then its just a joke to compare any of those things to this situation.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-03-21, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Good, maybe that will inspire more parents to lock up their guns. But why stop there? What about the racist guy in Waukesha who plowed down 40 people and killed six including children who was released after running over his child's mother? Lock up his father and mother too and that D.A. too. Notice how that story of the car "crash" was wedged out of the news by this story with fewer being killed or wounded. How about the parents of minors who were arrested on Jan. 6 or any BLM/antifa rally? Those parents should be charged too. Track down absentee fathers and charge single mothers too. If they failed in their job of parenting, arrest them. The law should be consistent.

A month ago, a father was arrested for complaining to his Loudoun VA school board that his daughter was assaulted by a boy dressed up like a girl in a school bathroom. Perhaps the assaulter's parents and that school board should be charged because its flakey board policy make this possible.

Great example of why slippery slope arguments almost never hold true, since not one of those situations is remotely equivalent to the negligence of the Crumbleys.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-03-21, 05:51 PM

Kudos to Justin Shilling’s parents for making the decision to donate his organs. It’s wonderful to be able to think of others at such a time.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...on/8855440002/

**oladub** · December-03-21, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Great example of why slippery slope arguments almost never hold true, since not one of those situations is remotely equivalent to the negligence of the Crumbleys.

I addressed meddle's comment, "Parents charged, 4 counts of manslaughter." I supported parents being charged for the damage done by their children, not only in this instance but across the board. The consistent application of the law seems like a good thing to me. I do have trouble understanding the logic of those who want to disarm everyone because an average of 10 children and teenagers, out of 55M young people are killed with guns in an average year. The last I checked, 788 people were murdered in Chicago so far this year mostly with guns. If any of them were children or teens, let's go after their parents too. What's the excuse for not doing so? Don't they count too or do the kids at Oxford high school count for more.

**softailrider** · December-03-21, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

I addressed meddle's comment, "Parents charged, 4 counts of manslaughter." I supported parents being charged for the damage done by their children, not only in this instance but across the board. The consistent application of the law seems like a good thing to me. I do have trouble understanding the logic of those who want to disarm everyone because an average of 10 children and teenagers, out of 55M young people are killed with guns in an average year. The last I checked, 788 people were murdered in Chicago so far this year mostly with guns. If any of them were children or teens, let's go after their parents too. What's the excuse for not doing so? Don't they count too or do the kids at Oxford high school count for more.

Agree with the above, I think you make some totally solid, thought-provoking points.

**southen** · December-03-21, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

cool now all you have to do is show us the text where the parents flat out texted” Enjoy this gun sweetie,now go shoot up a school” .

You must have it in your possession,otherwise you would not have complained about a slippery slope and using a false statement to back it up.

?

O sorry I forgot,that’s how we roll these days,we just make crap up as we go along because it sounds good.

A deadly weapon is a deadly weapon,a gun is no different then a car or knife or stick of dynamite,in the wrong hands or not used responsible they can all kill,dead is dead the last time I checked.

Curious, do you think that giving an unstable and depressed 15 year old a weapon and telling him to hide his behavior from the school is good parenting or negligent parenting?

Not all things that can kill are equal. That is such a ridiculous comment to make. Help me out, when the military is out in dangerous parts of the world are they arming themselves with Dodge Chargers and knives or are they using guns? The purpose of a gun to is inflict harm. What is the purpose of a car? If a knife is just as deadly as a gun why is it we don't have mass stabbings in this country? I mean they're equal right?

The gun adds an ease and efficiency to murdering people that nothing you have lazily compared it to does all the while ignoring the purpose of a gun. I suspect that to admit it is x times easier to murder with a gun would mean you would have to apply some critical thought to the problem and clearly that is something you just aren't interested in.

**southen** · December-03-21, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

I addressed meddle's comment, "Parents charged, 4 counts of manslaughter." I supported parents being charged for the damage done by their children, not only in this instance but across the board. The consistent application of the law seems like a good thing to me. I do have trouble understanding the logic of those who want to disarm everyone because an average of 10 children and teenagers, out of 55M young people are killed with guns in an average year. The last I checked, 788 people were murdered in Chicago so far this year mostly with guns. If any of them were children or teens, let's go after their parents too. What's the excuse for not doing so? Don't they count too or do the kids at Oxford high school count for more.

Oh good you are minimizing the problem by saying it is only ten children a year. Just curious, do you think that we should just ignore the trauma and mental anguish that children and parents have to go through because these schools have to do active shooter drills each month to prepare for something like this? There is a far greater toll from this than just a body count that you somehow deem acceptable.

Oh and for the record you can go ahead and prosecute any negligent gun owner whose weapon isn't properly cared for if it leads to a crime of any kind. I don't mind.

**Jimaz** · December-03-21, 09:23 PM

Crumbley Parents On The Run

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-03-21, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by southen

Oh good you are minimizing the problem by saying it is only ten children a year. Just curious, do you think that we should just ignore the trauma and mental anguish that children and parents have to go through because these schools have to do active shooter drills each month to prepare for something like this? There is a far greater toll from this than just a body count that you somehow deem acceptable.

Oh and for the record you can go ahead and prosecute any negligent gun owner whose weapon isn't properly cared for if it leads to a crime of any kind. I don't mind.

Or if you listen to right wing conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones, there are zero a year since it’s all fake “false flag” staged events with non-existent kids. He’s truly an evil individual.