Grand Prix proposes move back to Downtown...And it IS

**401don** · October-05-21, 06:16 PM

This old goat has been writing in the Wheels section [[automotive section) of the Toronto Star for years. Almost everything in this article is inaccurate:
https://www.thestar.com/autos/2021/1...r-detroit.html

**Honky Tonk** · October-06-21, 04:07 AM

Good riddance.

**Richard** · October-06-21, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

I know nothing about road construction but I know repaving won't do anything to fix how bumpy the downtown street course will be. They repaved prior to the Grand Prix and the drivers complained it was by far the worst course on the circuit. You would need to take it down a few feet and completely rebuild it. That's not going to happen, at least not by next year and I doubt Penske would want to shell out those millions.

St.Pete’s streets are not the poster child for perfect streets same as the European courses,that is what makes each race different and challenging,no two are the same.

A 6 year old can drive a formula car on a smooth track,what separates the drivers is the ability to maintain speed under all changing conditions and the ability to adapt to them with split second decisions.

If they want to run on a manicured track,they can run them at Daytona,that style of race was born to be run on everyday street courses.

**EGrant** · October-06-21, 10:08 AM

I just have flashbacks of the 2012 Grand Prix, where the track was literally coming apart and they had to call off the race. Like I said before, I assume Penske has a plan for the road conditions, and maybe they are currently capable of handling a race, but these are Michigan roads after all.

**stasu1213** · October-09-21, 08:49 AM

Detroit has acres of vacant land in it's borders especially near the downtown area. Downtown would be nice but unlike the last time that the Grand Prix was there downtown is more developed especially with the Riverwalk. There are parcels of land near the Eastern Market area or Russell and Warren area that could be used.

**Richard** · October-09-21, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Detroit has acres of vacant land in it's borders especially near the downtown area. Downtown would be nice but unlike the last time that the Grand Prix was there downtown is more developed especially with the Riverwalk. There are parcels of land near the Eastern Market area or Russell and Warren area that could be used.

It is the ambiance that makes it popular,is you put it into a controlled circuit it removes the whole concept and history of it.

It is popular in Europe because it is a event that everybody can view,regardless of income,because it does not cost anything fir the spectators to stand along the course and watch.

Unlike the majority of sports in this country where attendance is limited to income.

Its the roar of the engines bouncing off of multiple buildings that only downtown circuits can provide,outside of that it just becomes a rally or circuit track,which are different races.

Also if one lives downtown or those with office space higher up get a good view of the circuit,F1/gran prix running outside if its original intent is like putting wheels on a boat and driving it around,you just do not do it.

Locals will come and watch it for the time period then go home,somebody from out of state will rent a hotel room downtown for a few days or even a week,hangout and spend money,which increases revenue for the city and residents and adds another segment to the tourism aspect,keep adding little things that bring tourists in and next thing you know you have a complete new industry that provides jobs and millions of dollars to the coffers.

Outside of Vegas, casinos do not count,they trap people in a designated space kinda like what Disney world does,this is not just about a race that may provide an inconvenience downtown for some for a day,it is also promoting the city while creating a destination.

As a city and downtown,you have to figure out how to capitalize on it,everybody coming there has a few bucks in their pocket,give em a reason to part with it.

**stasu1213** · October-09-21, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

It is the ambiance that makes it popular,is you put it into a controlled circuit it removes the whole concept and history of it.

It is popular in Europe because it is a event that everybody can view,regardless of income,because it does not cost anything fir the spectators to stand along the course and watch.

Unlike the majority of sports in this country where attendance is limited to income.

Its the roar of the engines bouncing off of multiple buildings that only downtown circuits can provide,outside of that it just becomes a rally or circuit track,which are different races.

Also if one lives downtown or those with office space higher up get a good view of the circuit,F1/gran prix running outside if its original intent is like putting wheels on a boat and driving it around,you just do not do it.

Locals will come and watch it for the time period then go home,somebody from out of state will rent a hotel room downtown for a few days or even a week,hangout and spend money,which increases revenue for the city and residents and adds another segment to the tourism aspect,keep adding little things that bring tourists in and next thing you know you have a complete new industry that provides jobs and millions of dollars to the coffers.

Outside of Vegas, casinos do not count,they trap people in a designated space kinda like what Disney world does,this is not just about a race that may provide an inconvenience downtown for some for a day,it is also promoting the city while creating a destination.

As a city and downtown,you have to figure out how to capitalize on it,everybody coming there has a few bucks in their pocket,give em a reason to part with it.

You had put it in a good way. I stand corrected. When Detroit first hosted the Grand Prix downtown back in 82 I thought that it was a very unique idea to have the cars racing through a city street instead of a track. What year did the Grand Prix went to Belle Isle? I had forgot. Detroit has more hotels than it had in 1982 when it first hosted the Grand Prix. Maybe Grand Prix events could be held throughout Downtown and Midtown such as at Campus Martius, Beacon Park, Capitol Park, and all the way to the New Center area

**Bobl** · October-11-21, 02:49 PM

Been gone for a few years or so.
Would like to see the event move downtown. Give us Belle Isle back.

**Sandhouse** · October-11-21, 09:51 PM

I saw most of the downtown Grands Prix [[note high-toned French spelling!) but only went to one practice session on Belle Isle. The downtown races were really dramatic. I remember the scenes vividly. I spent the race days walking from one spot to another on the track for different perspectives. At the later events, less of the course was visible as it was blocked off by barriers and tarps except for buyers of grandstand tickets. The impression was cheap and crummy and should be avoided if the event comes back. The view from some downtown offices was spectacular.

The Belle Isle course was worse for spectating; very difficult to get a good perspective of the race.

I don't know how much local traffic was attracted by the races. I attended a couple of the downtown races by SEMTA bus, to avoid parking. After the race I was the only fan getting on board the Gratiot bus at the deserted bus stop. But maybe I'm a misfit. The shuttle buses from downtown to Belle Isle worked well.

**Don K** · October-12-21, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Bring back F1 too. Indy car is basically a spec series and they have races nearby. F1 brings more people and more dollars and has a huge TV audience. Sure it costs more but they are the top racing series in the world so why should we except second best.

The only tracks that can afford the price of entry for F1 are the traditional races from way back [[England, Belgium, Monaco) and the ones with national or state governments willing to write a huge check every year [[Russia, Bahrain, Texas). No way Detroit qualifies under either criterion.

**Richard** · October-12-21, 01:35 PM

For the spectator there is little difference between F1 and Indy and the F1 circuit is also referred to as the Indy circuit.

The difference is in the cars

F1 max speed 220

Indy 240

But the Indy cars have half the cubic inch then the F1 but a higher top speed.

Indy cars are regulated to a Honda or GM engine and F1 is more about aerodynamics and other things designed to give a second here or there,where the car makes the difference and little to do with actual driver skills under all conditions.

What really sets them apart and separates the men from the boys is F1 cars have power steering where Indy does not.

You hear the drivers crying about Detroit and St Petersburg being the most challenging circuits because of the road conditions,imagine a driver complaining about a challenging course,they should maybe have chosen knitting as a career.

Heaven forbid a driver has to run a challenging course.

F1/Indy has more support in Europe and beyond then in the states because it has always been popular like football is here,so lots of corporate sponsors and public support.

**JRiordan** · October-12-21, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Much more interesting race through the downtown roads. Get it off the island.

You're right. 2 long straight a ways and 2 short straight aways will be fascinating! About the same as watching paint dry.

**JRiordan** · October-12-21, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Bring back F1 too. Indy car is basically a spec series and they have races nearby. F1 brings more people and more dollars and has a huge TV audience. Sure it costs more but they are the top racing series in the world so why should we except second best.

The F1 drivers are a prissy bunch, they complain about everything. I don't see them back in Detroit.

**Honky Tonk** · October-13-21, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by JRiordan

The F1 drivers are a prissy bunch, they complain about everything. I don't see them back in Detroit.

Yeah, complaining about little things like asphalt crumbling away and manhole covers getting sucked up by the car's ground effects at 160 mph. What wusses.

**sirrealone** · October-13-21, 06:23 AM

From what I recall during the downtown runs, unless someone wrecked or ran out of gas, they pretty much finished in the spot they started.

**Richard** · October-13-21, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Yeah, complaining about little things like asphalt crumbling away and manhole covers getting sucked up by the car's ground effects at 160 mph. What wusses.

that’s the whole point of the race,driven under the same conditions that the everyday driver does.

just a little bit faster.

Kinda defeats the purpose if they have a street sweeper go in front of them or provide a pristine surface.

kinda like what was said about watching paint dry,unless of course it was watching body paint dry.

**Honky Tonk** · October-13-21, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

that’s the whole point of the race,driven under the same conditions that the everyday driver does.

just a little bit faster.

Kinda defeats the purpose if they have a street sweeper go in front of them or provide a pristine surface.

The problem is they're not driving every day cars. Those cars are designed to suck, with the ground effects, to adhere to the road. The suspension is stiffened and the tires are smooth, to keep them glued to the road. You can't drive a vehicle like that safely, at high speeds, on pot holed patched pavement. Or on pot for that matter.

**Richard** · October-13-21, 05:43 PM

^ the F1 cars are like that,it makes the car the winner and not the driver,the Indy cars are akin to driving a 1950 Cadillac with no power brakes or power steering,they are not as tuned in and it is more on the driver verses the car.

To me anyways,Indy is more in your face raw driving with the driver getting banged and bounced around under real conditions verses staged conditions.

They have to earn the win verses a big backer had more money then the others and built a better car.

Daytona has ended up the same way,when they take away the original intent on how the race should be run under what conditions,they kill the sport.

Back in the 20s 30s California actually had races similar,but it was on the dirt streets.

You will be able to tell the difference between attendance numbers - Belle Isle verses downtown.

**esighed** · October-13-21, 10:48 PM

"You will be able to tell the difference between attendance numbers - Belle Isle verses downtown." If the GP race downtown Detroit finds sponsors like the ones in Nashville, attendance will go up with distilleries, breweries, people like Gilbert giving the GP lots of $.....don't believe the $13.5 million in GP improvements to Belle Isle. Half that money was improved race track courtesy of MDOT [[our money). Who will pay for the track downtown? If the manhole covers have to be welded to keep from flying up with suction of cars there will be more flooding like when One Detroit Center was being built and big flood underground. There was a flood on Sunset Point on Belle Isle when the race closed the roads so even the DNR couldn't get to the underground water pipes that flooded the whole point for 5 days before it was discovered. The Belle Isle bridge had to tolerate the extra heavy race semi trucks and who knows if that is why big expensive repairs have to be done on the bridge next summer and paid with tax money......

**Gistok** · October-13-21, 11:41 PM

Here was the 1982-1991 downtown course for the Grand Prix...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroi...et_Circuit.svg

Here is the [still under discussion] proposed new downtown course [scroll down]...

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2021/09...-downtown.html

**Satiricalivory** · October-13-21, 11:48 PM

I don't like them using the parking lots by the ren cen. I want that area developed, not dedicated to the Grand Prix.

**401don** · October-14-21, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

I don't like them using the parking lots by the ren cen. I want that area developed, not dedicated to the Grand Prix.

You're kidding, right?

**Richard** · October-14-21, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

I don't like them using the parking lots by the ren cen. I want that area developed, not dedicated to the Grand Prix.

There is no city that has anything permanently dedicated to the circuit,it’s like the circus coming to downtown,they come in,set up,race,then leave.

Totally different situation then as it is now on Belle Isle ,St Petersburg’s manhole covers must be different because I have never seen them welded down,if those cars can suck up a manhole cover,they would be leaving a path of sucked up asphalt behind them.

**Satiricalivory** · October-14-21, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by 401don

You're kidding, right?

Uhh no, why would I be? How are those lots going to be developed if they're periodically used every year for the grand prix??

**Satiricalivory** · October-14-21, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

There is no city that has anything permanently dedicated to the circuit,it’s like the circus coming to downtown,they come in,set up,race,then leave.

It doesn't have to be permanent to impede development. They're going to want this land available for their use now, making development much harder.

I mean, I'd love to be wrong about this.