Rivian seeks IPO that would Make it More Valuable than Ford or GM

[Rocket]

A couple guys I know work for Rivian,.. and they tell me the plan is to go into production THIS MONTH.

Will be interesting to see if that happens.

[Richard]

With the IPO comes disclosure

Rivian took a 1 billion dollar loss in the first 6 months of 2020 and is placing the IPO value at 80 billion.

The deal with Amazon that was touted as a order of 100,000 does indeed come out to be not as advertised.

The e-commerce giant will have exclusive rights to Rivian’s delivery vehicles for four years after receiving the first, and will have the right to first refuse to purchase the trucks for two years after that. Amazon has ordered 100,000 last-mile trucks by 2030, and the first 10,000 are due to be delivered this year.
But the filing shows that Amazon’s logistics unit has no obligation to purchase any Rivian electric delivery vehicles — and that it can still work with any other potential vehicle partners.

While the EDV agreement states that we will be compensated for some development costs, it does not include any minimum purchase requirements or restrict logistics from developing vehicles or cooperating with or procuring similar vehicles from third parties,” she said.

https://711web.com/rivian-details-1-...in-ipo-file-2/

The devil is always in the details.

[Richard]

The stock after the initial IPO is crashing like the Heidelberg after the COO retired and the meeting of expectations of only a little over 1000 units for the year.

It dropped $100 value almost overnight.

In comparison Tesla delivered 70,000 units in the same time frame in China alone.

Side note

Cohens 250 million investment in Tesla in 2017 is now worth 1.6 billion

His 11 million investment in game stop is now worth 1.2 billion

I still think because outside of building automobiles Ford also plays the stock market,their backing in Rivian was just to lend credence in order to pump up the value,because they bailed just before the IPO and banked millions in the process.

Interesting how all of this equates to investment vehicles,and little to do with actual vehicles.

People are making billions on just the thought,verses an actual product.

[Rocket]

On a side note, I've actually been seeing a Rivian pickup on the road, albeit with an M plate. Looks sharp.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

On a side note, I've actually been seeing a Rivian pickup on the road, albeit with an M plate. Looks sharp.

To each his own. That front end is gruesome to me. And how much are they, 100 grand?

[Henry Whalley]

To each his own. That front end is gruesome to me. And how much are they, 100 grand?

Agreed, it's dog ugly.

[canuck]

Agreed, it's dog ugly.

Speaking for myself here, but my dawg is purdy. That Rivian thing though,
as unprepossessing as it gets.


What bugs me is the vanity that pushes people to buy into 84 month payment for something that loses so much value in so little time. What a wasteful mentality when all points to the fact we should be downsizing, and reducing our consumption. Vanity is all it is and marketers know how to push the right buttons.

The other egregious fact is that a company that can’t deliver a product on day one of its operations can get so much backing with no track record from a product’s existence, let alone short lived reliability. We live in bullsh!t times.

[Richard]

Speaking for myself here, but my dawg is purdy. That Rivian thing though,
as unprepossessing as it gets.


What bugs me is the vanity that pushes people to buy into 84 month payment for something that loses so much value in so little time. What a wasteful mentality when all points to the fact we should be downsizing, and reducing our consumption. Vanity is all it is and marketers know how to push the right buttons.

The other egregious fact is that a company that can’t deliver a product on day one of its operations can get so much backing with no track record from a product’s existence, let alone short lived reliability. We live in bullsh!t times.

The F350 is now pushing $115k with up to 96 months financing.

But the biggest thing is the cost of repairs if you are going to keep it,my friend with a 2018 Serria just hit 101,000 even with extended warranty that ran out at 100,000 miles he now needs a transmission and lifter replacement or $6500 worth of work.

The average truck payment and insurance is over $1000 per month but they are saying the credit card and auto loan default is the highest it has been in 30 years.

But in the early years it was common to trade their new car in every three years to me that’s really the way to do it,if you want a new car just factor in the payment as a forever fixed cost like rent or mortgage and trade it in every 3 years.

That why I got out of the auto repair business,because at that time anybody could walk in and buy a new car for less than it cost to fix their old one.

As a rule most only look at what it cost down and how much per month,you could tell them it is a million in total costs and it would not matter.

But it is deceptive when it comes to trucks,the self employed purchase the majority even more so in Florida with HOAs and because they do not build fleet vehicles anymore as a business you do not have much of a choice but to buy a unnecessary fully appointed truck that is going to get scratched or dented as soon as an employee gets in it.

If they took that commercial use aspect out the market would be different.

Where I am at the maximum GVW you can park in residential is 6500 the Rivian comes in at 7000 so HOA or not you cannot even legally buy it and park it at your house and the tax office would consider it a commercial vehicle,for me it is $195 per year difference in registration costs between commercial and private use vehicles.

[Zacha341]

Yes, and eventually it gets REALLY old [and in more cases now impossible] to pay huge car notes of $950+ MONTHS on end!

That span of months not even touching principal for the first third of time-frame depending on financing.

You're interest top-heavy at the front-end when you finance this LONG!

I love driving, and car ownership. but no car could captivate my interest to pay like that. You don't live in your car or maybe you might have to at these rates!

Also as prices goes up so does service costs.

...What bugs me is the vanity that pushes people to buy into 84 month payment for something that loses so much value in so little time.

[Jimaz]

...That front end is gruesome to me....

I had to look it up.

I can't quite put my finger on it but it's mildly unnerving like some character from a 70's psychedelic underground comic or that sickly quasi-human infant in Eraserhead.

Yeah, that's it. The nostrils. Eeeeeeek!

[jiminnm]

Yeah, that's it. The nostrils. Eeeeeeek!

I think it looks like an electrical outlet, which is somehow appropriate.

One parked next to me a few days ago and they are huge. Tall, wide, long and weighing over 7,000 lbs., and it made my mid-size sedan look like a toy car.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I think it looks like an electrical outlet, which is somehow appropriate.

One parked next to me a few days ago and they are huge. Tall, wide, long and weighing over 7,000 lbs., and it made my mid-size sedan look like a toy car.

Great call on the electrical outlet...

[Henry Whalley]

And Rivian vehicles are made in the U.S. What a novelty!

[Satiricalivory]

Ford bailed on Rivian before the IPO? So they sold the stock?

[Richard]

Ford bailed on Rivian before the IPO? So they sold the stock?

Well,that was my input,word is they are looking to sell,they have 100 million shares and it was a Trojan horse type of a deal.

They are direct competition why would they tie up 100 million in Rivian,the original intent was to cross platform before they had different objectives,but Ford has their own platform so no need to keep propping up Rivian.

You have to remember that the only reason the manufacturers jumped onto the EV bandwagon with commitments of 2030 was because the current administration hinted that they would delay current emission standards that were getting ready to kick in if they got serious about EVs.

After they all announced their intentions the administration backtracked and still implemented the new strict standards.

So now they have to comply with increased standards in existing ICE vehicles but in order to save face,move forward with EVs.

Which is going to require double the cash in order to fund both aspects.

Legally and technically,no they did not sell before the IPO,but in reality it was gone and now most believe they want out,because really they have no reason to be there,Amazon still holds 20%.

Rivn -7.26 %

F + 2.00 %

People moved from Rivian to Ford increasing Fords value because they knew Fords play after it was hinted that they were going to part ways,or had different objectives,it was just a pump and dump,Ford is no dummy they can build their own platform as they did,Rivian was just a thing to appease the administration and make a few bucks along the way.

Pretty smart on Fords part,they would have won either way it went.

But it shows the start up’s what they are really up against,the long entrenched manufacturers have been in the game for over 100 years and they know how to play it.

If I was into stocks like that,long term,I would be investing in Ford or GM EV wise,because they have an infrastructure and buying power in place that outside of nich markets, it would be pretty hard to compete against them long term.

Because of their size they are not nimble,but like a freight train,once they get rolling,I would not want to be a start up in their way,just ask Tucker.

[jiminnm]

Ford bailed on Rivian before the IPO? So they sold the stock?

Ford owned about 102 million shares of Rivian. Between the IPO and May 2022, they sold about 7 million shares [at a substantial gain on their investment]. In May, they sold about 8 million more shares [now holding about 87 million shares). The Rivian IPO was at $78/share. Rivian closed at $34 on Friday.

[Richard]

Ford's early investment in EV maker Rivian will add $8.2 billion to its Q4 bottom line, the carmaker said late Tuesday.

Ford invested $500 million in Rivian in 2019 -- building that to $1.2 billion in the following years -- and has a total stake of around 12% in the Irvine, California-based EV group.

Rivian shares, once valued at more than $100 billion, closed at $73.16 last night, pegging their market cap at just under $66 billion.

https://www.thestreet.com/markets/fo...ian-investment

[Richard]

Rivian lays off hundreds of workers as its struggles create a $19 billion headache for Amazon and Ford

In the first half of this year, its stock tumbled 75%, leading to hefty on-paper losses for its investors.
Amazon reported losses of $11.5 billion on its stake between the first and second quarters. During the same period, Ford lost $7.9 billion on its Rivian investment. Together, the two own roughly 27% of Rivian's outstanding shares.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elec...edium=news_tab


A lot of these EV start ups remind me of the dot com tech days,with massive IPOs then crashes.

[Gistok]

^ Agree! Ditto for Bitcoin et al.

[Richard]

Just a quick run down

GM 36.26
Ford 14.69
Toyota 162.59
Mazda 577.05 zoom zoom
Tesla 891.45
Honda 25.72
Lucid 18.25
Li 46.00 [[Chinese)
Volkswagen 192.20

It does not really appear as though a manufacturers commitment to green is really helping their bottom line.

The very reason for a corporation to exist is to make money for its shareholders.

Tesla remains the standout,but a lot of their technology is patented and is used by other manufacturers,so the revenue from that could be increasing their bottom line.


The new shareholder complaint is asking for class-action status on behalf of all common stock shareholders who participated in the Rivian IPO on November 10, 2021, when the stock was offered at $78 per share. The day before the price hike was announced, Rivian traded for around $67 per share. But, the lawsuit points out, in the days after the price hike, the company's value has tumbled to around $42 per share.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...awsuit%20says.

• The company raised an astounding $13.7 billion through its initial public offering last November, and the public markets bought in from there. The stock's market cap peaked at more than $150 billion just days after it started trading. But in the months since, Rivian's market cap has fallen to roughly $26 billion.
  
  https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/...vestors-shoul/
  
  
  What sets Tesla apart from the others is they already have their own battery production.

[JBMcB]

Just a quick run down
Toyota 162.59
Mazda 577.05 zoom zoom
Honda 25.72

The Japanese car companies are a special situation, as they aren't just car companies, but vertically integrated along with steel mills, investment banks, insurance companies, and other related industries. They aren't a single company per se, but they all own controlling stock interests in each other and coordinate nearly everything. I read once that Toyota makes more money on their investment in their related life insurance company than selling cars.

[Richard]

Their stock price is at $8.60 down from a high of $100 at their initial offering of $100 - opps.

[313WX]

Their stock price is at $8.60 down from a high of $100 at their initial offering of $100 - opps.

The initial offering was $78 and the high was $172.

That may not be reflected in the historical data due to dilution.

[Richard]

The initial offering was $78 and the high was $172.

That may not be reflected in the historical data due to dilution.

$78 but if you are buying into,after commissions and fees you are closer to $100.

So even if you sold now at the $8.60 ,depending on how many shares you bought,you may have to write a check for the balance.

How would you like to be the one that bought in at $170?

Not that it really matters it is all just numbers in the sky,half the billionaires are so based on paper and not real wealth.

A good depression and they would be sitting in the soup line next to you.

[Rocket]

As a rule, when investing in companies that loose $120,000.00 on every individual item they manufacturer, don't invest any money you can't afford to loose.

Only one EV company ever turned the corner and made a profit. And of those loosing money, none have lost money as spectacularly as Rivian.