2020 Official Census Release Megathread

**Satiricalivory** · August-12-21, 11:27 PM

Is the DTE household thing compelling enough? How many vacant homes you see with front porch lights on? Even if only half that number is actually occupied with families that could be tens of thousands.

How does it compare to other cities? Do other cities have such a gap in count and utilities?

That combined with other circumstances it just seems clear there's a severe under-count.

**Colombian Dan** · August-13-21, 06:25 AM

A 1O.5% decline is still huge. Detroit is no where from hitting bottom yet. More distressing still, are the population declines in areas such as Livonia.

**Richard** · August-13-21, 07:27 AM

DTE customer based as a comparison should not even be in the mix,most cities regard a house connected to utilities as not abandoned,how many of those active customers are connected,but no longer paying the bill but still are registered as a customer in the data base.

Outside of the city employees going door to door or spend a few million to hire an outside auditor and performing their own count,they really have no solid way to dispute it.

**Hermod** · August-13-21, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

For what it's worth to you genealogists, the 1950 Census information will be available to the public on March 1, 2022.

1.8 plus million

**softailrider** · August-13-21, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

A 1O.5% decline is still huge. Detroit is no where from hitting bottom yet. More distressing still, are the population declines in areas such as Livonia.

Livonia has pretty good housing, decent schools, good police and fire. Why should there be a decline there?

**Richard** · August-13-21, 09:21 AM

In 2020 Michigan lost 18,000 residents based on moving company reports,they had to leave from somewhere,the rest is dominated by census reports that involves a grain of salt.

The silver lining is the state still does not make the top 10 states being depopulated list,they are pegging most moves from the UP and more gravitation towards the cities if they are not just leaving the state.

**renf** · August-13-21, 10:06 AM

After the 1870 census, the mayors of New York, Philadelphia and Indianapolis, argued strongly that the census had drastically undecounted their populations. President Grant - who was for some time a Detroit resident - ordered a recount of those three cities. The recount added a modest number of people in New York City and Philadelphia but a substantial increase in Indianapolis. However, Indianapolis annexed a considerable fraction of its suburban ring between the Census of 1870 and the recount that President Grant ordered.
Congress rejected data from Census 1920 for reapportionment for both
enumeration and political reasons. It seems unlikely that this Congress would reject use of the 2020 census for reapportionment.
In the 1960s, Congress enacted a bill calling for a quinquennial census but has never funded such an enumeration. The results could probably not be used for reapportionment.
Congress has enacted many census laws since President Grant governed this nation. I do not know if President Bush or Congress has the option of insisting that there be recounts in specific location and that those recounted numbers be used as the official counts.
About $1.6 billion dollars are distributed by the federal government each year to local governments on the basis of census counts and other federally collected information about such topics as poverty and unemployment. Those dollars are distributed on the basis of annual population estimates which are linked to the decennial census counts.

**Lowell** · August-13-21, 10:13 AM

There needs to be some method, perhaps via undercover investigation, to determine the number of "bunkers" in Detroit. Bunking refers to living in the City but claiming residency elsewhere mainly to avoid the extortionate auto insurance rates and city income tax. It is an open secret that this widespread practice exists.

IMO this should be a federal investigation as it involves lying on the census but that is unlikely as this quote from the American Bar Association site notes, "individuals who avoid even a single question on the census could face potential criminal consequences, including a fine of up to $5,000, although there has not been a prosecution in nearly 50 years."

This practice denies needy cities like Detroit of revenue sharing income and political representation but burdens them with the costs of these bunkers when they need law enforcement, fire protection, or other city services.

**royce** · August-13-21, 10:23 AM

Since when has Detroit not disputed the results of the census? There was an extension made to mail in or report online your household information. I know many Detroiters don't have access to the internet, but no access to the U.S. postal service? I don't know what it would take for the other 49% of Detroiters that didn't respond to the census to respond to the census. As the old adage goes, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." If Detroiters don't want to be counted, then they don't want to be counted. The city suing the census for not doing what isn't going to change that mindset.

**wazootyman** · August-13-21, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Livonia has pretty good housing, decent schools, good police and fire. Why should there be a decline there?

I've lived in Livonia most of my life. My parents [[and many of the parents of the kids I grew up with) still live in the same home, while I've long since moved out and have my own kids. Definition of a mature city, I suppose. Many homes that once housed 3-4 or more now have only 2. It's cyclic, having apparently peaked in the late 90's I believe [[over 100k).

Based on my observation, there has been increasing turnover over the last decade. New young families, resulting in larger kindergarten classes, even adding more classrooms in some schools.

There has also been a lot of infill in small lots. Build 2-6 houses here, there, or wherever they can. There is a tremendous amount of demand, but very little open land.

Even so, households tend to be smaller now. People don't pack as many kids into the 1000 sqft ranches [[very prevalent throughout the city) that they used to.

I guess I don't see it as a decline, it's just a natural cycle. In my opinion, the city is just as desirable as it's ever been.

**Colombian Dan** · August-13-21, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Livonia has pretty good housing, decent schools, good police and fire. Why should there be a decline there?

Not sure. Ferndale also lost people too along with Hazel Park and Madison Heights. Dearborn however increased substantially. Much of Michigan had very uneven population swings, generally downward overall. Unless manufacturing can make a comeback, the population will continue to fall, especially with weekly flooding..

**Satiricalivory** · August-13-21, 11:22 AM

Ferndale losing population isn't surprising, that whole city has transitioned from working/middle class families to upper middle class adults. It's for sure in a better position then it was ten years ago but not as many kids.

**Satiricalivory** · August-13-21, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

A 1O.5% decline is still huge. Detroit is no where from hitting bottom yet. More distressing still, are the population declines in areas such as Livonia.

That population loss happened ten years ago when foreclosures were in free fall and is in no way a reflection of today, where population is pretty much stable. With thousands of new housing units being built in the city right now, there's no doubt you're gonna see gains eventually. The Detroit MSA grew by over 2% so who cares about Livonia lol.

You were wrong dude, sorry you didn't get your jerk off material.

**Meddle** · August-13-21, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

IMO this should be a federal investigation as it involves lying on the census but that is unlikely as this quote from the American Bar Association site notes, "individuals who avoid even a single question on the census could face potential criminal consequences, including a fine of up to $5,000, although there has not been a prosecution in nearly 50 years."

And with that in mind:

Census experts puzzled by high rate of unanswered questions

Census Bureau statisticians and outside experts are trying to unravel a mystery: Why were so many questions about households in the 2020 census left unanswered? Residents did not respond to a multitude of questions about sex, race, Hispanic background, family relationships and age, even when providing a count of the number of people living in the home, according to documents released by the ...

Remember that there was a big issue about asking certain questions and court rulings involving them that delayed printing of forms. I say again, this was not properly conducted or fully completed.

**Henry Whalley** · August-13-21, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by royce

If Detroiters don't want to be counted, then they don't want to be counted.

Maybe ten years from now it will be different? Yust yoking!

**Ray1936** · August-13-21, 03:07 PM

1940 Census for Grand Rapids, MI. There I is.

**13606Cedargrove** · August-13-21, 06:02 PM

I have seen many tables like Ray's doing ancestry research. I am amazed how consistently the data was recorded using pencil and paper. I know due to the volume of our current population this is no longer practical, but maybe we need to consider going back to canvassing everyone with iPads in hand. I thought the form was too long and tedious, but I filled it out completely and honestly. It is no mystery to me about "the high rate of unanswered questions."

**Hypestyles** · August-13-21, 06:27 PM

I support the challenge, but I fear for the worst. There are still vast cohorts of Detroit city residents who are simply "off the radar" 18 and older, younger to middle aged folks who have zero interest in keeping up with things like the Census. Makes no sense to them. "Do you get paid for filling out these papers?" "can child support catch up with you?" "can the tax people catch up with you?" "can social services find out you have a man in the home?" and various questions along those lines..

Many seniors with certain challenges/homebound, sick, nursing home care is another issue. My neighborhood continues to hollow out and there are a bunch of drastically dilapidated and trash homes and low-rise apartment buildings, which have sat derelict for years. The demolitions program hasn't come to our neighborhood at all, it seems. I voted against the bonds. I haven't seen the "results" in my immediate area.

I suspect that Detroit might be the area of the state that "loses" a congressional seat and it might be redrawn to pretty much just Detroit proper as one seat. I've submitted my own suggestions to the bipartisan redrawing commission. I hope their meetings continue to be publicized.

I want Detroit proper to become more multicultural, but "organically". I'm curious as to the residential trends for anyone of Arab and Asian ethnic cohorts, in particular. Particularly as various urban Detroit residents "only" see people from these groups in the context of owners of local retail stores, grocery/liquor, gas station, beauty supplies, nail shops; it frequently leads to a rather skewed social view on the deeper humanity of these cohorts, especially taking into account all the lingering tensions and occasional violent incidents that occur with allegedly "aggressive" consumers vs. allegedly "predatory" store owners. This issue in particular continues to threaten social ties in the city.

The drastic dispersal of entry-level job opportunities for the high-school educated [[or less) has done incalculable damage to the economic/social state of Detroit proper. That new skilled trades job training center on Elmhurst & I-96 needs to heavily prioritize and promote itself to city residents, and partner with local educational services to get anybody without a H.S. diploma or GED up to speed, and even refresher courses for those who haven't had to deal with anything math-related for years/decades.

I'm curious how committed newer city residents are to "staying", especially younger adult cohorts who do not yet have school-aged children [[those who are inclined to raise families, anyway). Have they read Aaron Foley's book? [[lol).
We'll see how this evolves.

**softailrider** · August-13-21, 09:13 PM

I was thinking about U of M stadium on a football Saturday, 100,000 + people in that venue - hard to believe there’s only 6 times that amount in the entire 129 square miles of the city.

**Lowell** · August-14-21, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Livonia has pretty good housing, decent schools, good police and fire. Why should there be a decline there?

Lingering effects from the 2005 War on Livonia?

**Henry Whalley** · August-14-21, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

There may have been a very great number simply uncounted. It really needs to be redone.

The uncounted probably don't vote either.

**Lowell** · August-15-21, 08:55 AM

Here's some upbeat news for an old urban center. Pontiac grew by just over 2,000.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...igan/POP010220

**Richard** · August-15-21, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Here's some upbeat news for an old urban center. Pontiac grew by just over 2,000.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...igan/POP010220

Its kinda weird the things they X out,like building permits,easy to obtain those numbers are indicators of true economic growth.

Even worse for smaller suburban towns and cities who are based on the whole Ponzi scheme.

**mtburb** · August-15-21, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

Dearborn however increased substantially.

So substantially that its figures are in six-digit territory for the first time since the 1970s, and so substantially that it's near its peak population of 112,007.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...igan/POP010220

**Satiricalivory** · August-15-21, 04:51 PM

It probably grew way more than even that considering immigrants don't tend to fill out the census or don't list everybody in a household. Especially considering the administration that were were under during the 2020 count.

If we could funnel more of that Middle Eastern immigration into the city limits we'd be great. But Dearborn is as much of an inner suburb as you can possibly get, I mean it's basically Detroit proper like Highland Park and Hamtramck.