Raining in Detroit - Expressways and Homes Flooded

[sirrealone]

Just seems like more and more rainfalls these days are full on downpours. Yesterday and overnight was just one after another.

[ferndalien]

Something about these floods has to be changed in a fundamental way.

Yes, some scientists should step up and see what might be affecting the way our climate is behaving. If only those eggheads would pay attention to such things.

[Gistok]

Yes, some scientists should step up and see what might be affecting the way our climate is behaving. If only those eggheads would pay attention to such things.

Hehehe... I assume your sarcasm alert button is on...

I think that we can complain all we want, there is a large portion of the population that disagrees with that [not me].

So we'll just have to accept that we may end up in the Stone Age in one way or another... be it major volcanic eruptions that cool world weather [535-536AD, 1815-1816AD], major solar flares that knock out electric grid [1859], slipping of subduction fault earthquakes that produce 100 ft tsunami's [Vancouver-Seattle, 1700AD, La Palma Volcano landslide into the Atlantic in the Canary Islands in pre-history], or ice cap melting that raises sea levels, and may turn Florida, Louisiana, Venice, Netherlands, Belgium, northern Germany, etc... into lagoons and scuba diving adventures of the future...

[Jimaz]

Yes, some scientists should step up and see what might be affecting the way our climate is behaving. If only those eggheads would pay attention to such things.

Yes, I too recognize your sarcasm and I agree with you.

I'm thinking that if we can't convince others of global climate change, we need to take their obstinance into account when devising a plan to improve our local response, regardless of their obstinance .

We need a way to more fundamentally change the divergence between actual and desired conditions into a convergence of those conditions on a local level.

To me this seems that something that hasn't yet been tried needs to be tried. There is a wide range of possibilities and I won't prematurely restrict them here with my own opinions.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

Let's improve our results. These floods can be better mitigated.

Imagine.

[Henry Whalley]

...turn Florida, Louisiana, Venice, Netherlands, Belgium, northern Germany, etc... into lagoons and scuba diving adventures of the future...

Since Burmese Pythons are great swimmers, I won't be scuba diving in what used to be Florida. That, plus the danger of Trumps in the water, will keep me in Michigan.

Too muggy for me. Trump mug shot released after booking in Georgia - The Washington Post

[Jimaz]

Overnight I heard a report that pumping water out of some freeway wasn't helping anymore because the pump's output was underwater. Essentially the pumps were just moving the water around. There was just no place nearby to put the water.

[Jimaz]

Heavy Rains Cause Freeway Flooding Interstate I-94

Heavy overnight rains led to street flooding in the Detroit area and other parts of southeastern Michigan on Thursday including tunnels leading to Detroit’s main airport, officials said.

Flooded underground roadways that connect airport terminals blocked travelers from part of the Detroit Metropolitan Airport, a spokeswoman for the Wayne County Airport Authority said in a statement. Travelers with flights out of the McNamara Terminal were urged to check the status of their flights.

A flood warning was in effect until Thursday afternoon for five southeastern Michigan counties: Livingston, Monroe, Oakland, Wayne and Washtenaw. The National Weather Service said urban and small stream flooding was expected and was already occurring in the area Thursday.

A heat advisory was also in effect through Thursday night for several southeastern Michigan counties, with heat index values of up to 102 degrees expected during Thursday, the weather service said. Article via https://apnews.com/article/rain-flood...

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer declared a state of emergency Friday, Aug. 25, for Wayne and Monroe counties. The move aims to help local response and recovery efforts in the areas impacted by flooding, heavy rain and severe storms.

[Hypestyles]

I hope upgrades to the city of detroit's water/sewer management systems are ongoing.

[Honky Tonk]

"Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer declared a state of emergency Friday, Aug. 25, for Wayne and Monroe counties. The move aims to help local response and recovery efforts in the areas impacted by flooding, heavy rain and severe storms."

Too bad she didn't fix the damn problem after the first time. How many more times does this have to happen before it sinks in?

[Gistok]

Too bad she didn't fix the damn problem after the first time. How many more times does this have to happen before it sinks in?

Didn't we have this same discussion back in 2014... during Snyder's 3rd year [of 8] in office?

But yeah... this has been getting old fast...

[Richard]

^ you have to make lemonade out of lemons,land is very expensive in Venice,keep it flooded and switch to canal boats and barges,nice side effect is you will be saving the planet.

The Netherlands exist because they learned how to control the water instead of letting it control them,they also learned long ago to build roads on top of the ditch and not at the bottom.

[Honky Tonk]

Didn't we have this same discussion back in 2014... during Snyder's 3rd year [of 8] in office?

But yeah... this has been getting old fast...

I get your political jab, even though I didn't make a political comment, but seriously, what is this costing the insurance companies and homeowners? It's the same with DTE. I get emails with these happy little pictures of kids running around the house, titled "We're Working Hard For You". They go on to tell me they've got 2500 people out in the field, Working 24/7 to restore power to 125,000 people. What's that costing each time we have one of those "2 Week Storms"? When you bring up burying power lines, they say "oh, that's too costly". Detroit is digging trenches replacing old water lines. Wouldn't this be an opportune time to be burying power lines as well?

[Henry Whalley]

I recall flying out of Detroit Metro airport thirty years ago and leaving my car in a long-term parking lot. There was a massive storm during my absence. I located my car at least 100 feet from where I had parked it. Thankfully, it had not floated all the way out to Eureka Rd.

Driving home was nearly impossible because the downriver suburbs, freeways, roads, and streets were flooded and impassable. Still, I'm grateful that we have water rather than drought. I don't see it as political.

[Gistok]

Yeah this is a problem for everyone, regardless of political persuasion.

The bottom line is that whatever fixes they do, it's going to cost taxpayers plenty. I just look at my own water bill... I use my basement dehumidifier water to water my flowers outside [I have many fewer than 20 years ago]. I haven't watered my grass in 20 years... whatever the water bill is, they tack on 60% sewage costs, so watering is becoming a luxury.

And there are so many storm related problems... and it seems that everyone in the country is affected. Wouldn't want to live in LA, Texas or Florida either... some of their problems are worse than ours. A friends son in Houston payed $1000 for A/C in July, a friend in Palm Springs has mud that turned to concrete everywhere around where she lives in the desert. And Florida has hurricane season in full swing.

Here in St. Clair Shores, they are making [$$$] changes to the Chapoton Pumping Station at 9 Mile and Jefferson... so every time we get a deluge, they don't have to pump mildly treated storm water into Lake St. Clair. The Clinton River has even bigger issues with the 12 Towns in Oakland County draining thru central Macomb County into the Clinton. More very expensive infrastructure changes, and more beach closings.

Homeowners Insurance is going the way of Car Insurance... up up and up!

We are all going to hell quickly...

[Honky Tonk]

At least SCS seems to have done something to alleviate the flooding. I remember going over a friend's house to see the SCS fireworks. [probably after the 2014 flood] SCS had these huge pumps placed around the neighborhood. One was chained to the telephone pole in front of their home on Jefferson.

[Jimaz]

In DetroitYES Forums » Discuss Detroit » Detroit to pay up to $6K per household to fix flood-prone basements, I proposed the idea of a reverse water tower.

Tokyo has done this successfully underground albeit at an enormous cost.

I'm guessing that temporarily storing flood water above ground would cost far less than a plan similar to Tokyo's and it could be more easily scaled as the scope of the problem changes in the future.

It's all about turning a two-dimensional problem into a three-dimensional solution.

Again, "Whether or not it's economically feasible would depend on weighing the cost of construction and operation against the cost of the flood damage otherwise incurred." Recurrently.

Just as traditional water towers store upsteam water for use when it's too scarce, reverse water towers would store downstream water when it's too abundant. It seems if the former is justified, so would the latter.

Candice Miller, are you listening?

[Gistok]

^ SCS below 9 Mile Rd. goes thru the Marter Rd. Retention Facility, and from there the water goes down to Conners Creek, which is why all SCS houses below 9 Mile had basement flooding back when Conners Creek went offline during a previous storm.

SCS above 9 Mile Rd. up to 14 Mile Rd. goes thru the Chapoton Retention Facility... and if too much water comes in, they quickly treat it mildly and discharge it to the lake.

Also, as you mentioned St. Clair Shores has quite a pumping system throughout the city. At about 10 1/2 mile and Jefferson there is this house, which people don't notice when driving by on Jefferson... but if you look at it closely, you notice that everything about this house seems super-sized, and the windows along the front are fake, and there are none on the other sides of the house, because this is a pumping station disguised as part of the neighborhood. The water is pumped down to Chapaton at 9 Mile into the 5 million gallon underground retention tank.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4847...8192?entry=ttu

[Henry Whalley]

...reverse water tower.

If storage is above ground, might it be possible to move water vertically using water-powered sump pumps based on the Venturi Principle.

[Jimaz]

...reverse water tower.

If storage is above ground, might it be possible to move water vertically using water-powered sump pumps based on the Venturi Principle.

Water-powered sump pumps certainly work but electric pumps wouldn't add more water to be removed.

Regardless of how it would be powered, one apparent objection to a reverse water tower might be the large surface area of the flood versus the small surface area of the tower. It might seem the tower could never be wide enough to make a difference. But the tower{s} could compensate for width with additional height of the water within the tower and also with multiple towers.

It's also important to remember that even a tiny reduction in the height of a flood can make a major reduction in the cost of recovery.

Of course a proper cost-benefit analysis would have to be done to ensure such a system is worthwhile. The initial cost of construction plus recurring costs of maintenance would have to be weighed against the recurring costs of flood recovery.

I guess I'm really just curious whether this has ever been tried anywhere {other than Tokyo's underground storage}.

[mwilbert]

Water-powered sump pumps certainly work but electric pumps wouldn't add more water to be removed.

Regardless of how it would be powered, one apparent objection to a reverse water tower might be the large surface area of the flood versus the small surface area of the tower. It might seem the tower could never be wide enough to make a difference. But the tower{s} could compensate for width with additional height of the water within the tower and also with multiple towers.

It's also important to remember that even a tiny reduction in the height of a flood can make a major reduction in the cost of recovery.

Of course a proper cost-benefit analysis would have to be done to ensure such a system is worthwhile. The initial cost of construction plus recurring costs of maintenance would have to be weighed against the recurring costs of flood recovery.

I guess I'm really just curious whether this has ever been tried anywhere {other than Tokyo's underground storage}.

I have never heard of doing this aboveground. It would seem to make more sense to do it below ground--the water wants to go down anyway, so you don't have to worry about pumps and power supplies and such failing during the storm; whereas if you let it go downward, you can pump it out later. In a city like Detroit where land isn't at a premium, there wouldn't seem to be much benefit to using a tower.

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

Thanks for posting this! That's one of my videos.

[Jimaz]

Thanks for posting this! That's one of my videos.

Yes, you are most welcome. And thank you very much for creating that "Heavy Rains Cause Freeway Flooding Interstate I-94" video. You do good work.

It was refreshing to see people actually working to solve the problem. We rarely see that in other media.

Bravo!

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

Downriver flooding:

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

In my opinion, all our politicians are to blame after voting to send billions and billions to Ukraine and neglect our infrastructure.

[mwilbert]

In my opinion, all our politicians are to blame after voting to send billions and billions to Ukraine and neglect our infrastructure.

That's a weird opinion--way more money is being spent on US infrastructure than is being spent on the Ukraine, and there's no reason to think that if money weren't being spent on Ukraine, it would be spent on infrastructure. Problems with flooding in various parts of the Detroit area long predate the Ukraine war, and no doubt will continue long afterward--the area was built up without much regard for dealing with heavy storms, which seem to be more common lately.