Raining in Detroit - Expressways and Homes Flooded

**MikeM** · June-30-21, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

I am seeing that! It's on page D-60 of the CIP.

https://www.glwater.org/wp-content/u...nformation.pdf

The eight storm pumps for Conner Creek are each a nominal
320 MGD [million gallons per day] so if all if them were to run
in parallel at the same time, the total pumped storm water
volume for a 24 hour day would come to 2,560 million gallons.

So now calculate the total rainfall volume in gallons over the drainage area served by the facility [East Jefferson, Conner Creek, and Fox Creek sewer districts, Grosse Pointes, Harper Woods, St Clair Shores, Eastpointe, and Roseville], subtract in system storage volumes, and divide by the storm duration to get the hourly excess flowing into the station. Don't forget to include the Freud pumping station capacity as well.

**Gistok** · June-30-21, 02:44 PM

MikeM... I am a bit confused. Here in St. Clair Shores, we are part of the Chapaton drainage district [[not sure if that includes sewage).

I did notice that parts of St. Clair Shores south of 9 Mile Rd. did have huge amounts of what I assume is flooded basement refuse sitting in front of houses waiting for the weekly trash pickup. There was no such trash outside north of 9 Mile. We had only about 1 inch of rain that night in central St. Clair Shores, and no basement flooding.

So I'm assuming that the flooded basements in the southern part of our city was due to heavier rainstorms, since that part of town is closer to the Grosse Pointes.

But I'm still not sure how if Chapaton station at 9 Mile & Jefferson means we're part of the Conner Creek system, or are separate from it... ???

**Gistok** · June-30-21, 02:56 PM

Never mind... I think I got the answer I was looking for about Chapaton Station....

"Technicians were directed to install manhole covers atop a 70-foot-deep “wet well” inside the Chapaton Pump Station in St. Clair Shores. That facility, built in 1968, pumps sanitary sewage combined with stormwater from all of Eastpointe and from about 80% of St. Clair Shores to Detroit's wastewater treatment plant. It also handles the runoff from a nearby segment of the Interstate-94 freeway."

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...st/7403840002/

**MikeM** · June-30-21, 04:52 PM

Chapoton pumps to the sewer line that follows the former Milk River through the Woods and Farms, to a pumping station in the Farms that pumps it into the former Fox Creek, which takes it to the Detroit River Interceptor which takes it to the wastewater treatment plant. The basin at Chapoton holds the excess until it can be pumped into the line or in the worst case, gets treated and dumped into the lake.

**Dumpling** · June-30-21, 05:20 PM

I don't quite get how new manhole covers would increase the
capacity of the Chapaton Pump Station wet well and the influent interceptor though I do see that if the effective depth of the
wet well were to increase then the interceptor capacity could also increase. But since it worked, it is a good idea.

I'm also not quite understanding the situation that happened along
I-94 between I-75 and Greenfield Road in Detroit. Was the
Rouge River overflowing on to I-94 near Greenfield somehow?
That's the impression given due to the statement "the rivers
were cresting".

That's hard to envision because Greenfield Road goes under
I-94 where the two intersect. The Rouge River would be more
likely to flood Greenfield Road, the City of Dearborn DPW and the
DTE gas service area long before flooding I-94 at that location.

In my mind the MDOT pump stations were pumping towards
an interceptor that would go to the WRRF but maybe THAT
was completely full so that even if the pumps ran they could
not effectively move the water into the system.

Okay in that case, the Rouge River was in fact cresting right
here at the WRRF, so that reduced the MGD that could be
pumped into the Rouge River and the Detroit River?

1 am Saturday...total plant effluent volume 1742 MGD.
[the river probably wouldn't be cresting yet]
9 am Saturday. 1343 MGD.
5 pm Saturday. 1380 MGD
1 am Sunday. 1372 MGD
9 am Sunday 1146 MGD
5 pm Sunday 1085 MGD.

The Rouge River crested on Sunday? Trying to find out.

Can't find the original data [flood warning expired]
but in the Google Search subtitles it appears that it did
crest Sunday afternoon 6/27/2021 at 13.6 feet near
Dearborn and then the level fell below flood stage late
Sunday night.

Wait. Maybe that's not the right picture. I-94 in that stretch
has its own dedicated MDOT storm sewer that flows directly
into the Rouge River and Ecorse Creek where those streams
intersect? Or this one actually flows into Dearborn's storm
sewer system that then overflows directly into the Rouge
River?

**MikeM** · June-30-21, 06:01 PM

Lots of hysteria setting in. Never underestimate the will of wealthy conservatives to squeeze money out of taxpayers through lawsuits. A year from now, on a sunny day, they'll be complaining about taxes and sewage bill increases and will probably vote down bond issuances for infrastructure problems.

Group of homeowners to sue Detroit Water Department over flood damage

Attorney Ven Johnson announced his firm is filing a class action lawsuit against the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department claiming tens-of-thousands of dollars in damages and "irreplaceable losses" on behalf numerous property owners in Grosse Pointe and Detroit.

Grosse Pointe Park Police reported that approximately seven inches of rain fell within three hours last Friday. By Around 1 a.m. Saturday, Detroit's Connor Creek Pump Station, which is owned by DWSD, failed resulting in major flooding in eastern Wayne County communities.

Attorneys for the group say this was predictable, and avoidable

I'd like to know how it was predictable, especially when the weather service didn't predict the amount of rain that would eventually fall, and didn't issue a flood warning until after midnight.

Doherty, a Grosse Pointe Park resident, said he suffered nearly $100,000 in property damage and the loss of two vehicles.

The most frustrating part, Doherty said, is that no one is taking accountability for failures that caused this preventable situation.

"And I'm not going to buy this storm of the century stuff, OK?" he added. "You know, these are foreseeable events. You have the capacity if the machines work right. When they don't, then this devastation occurs."

Doherty [who is an attorney in Johnson's firm] might need to sit down with both a civil engineer and a climatologist.

**Lowell** · July-01-21, 09:15 AM

Thus spake God unto man, “Thou shalt not build basements in Michigan and fill them with earthly goods. “

Man defied God and God sent a mighty flood to fill the sinners' basements.

[Proposed addition to the Bible written by an unrepentant sinner with at least five basements flooding. Fortunately none worse than six inches. So far!]

**Jimaz** · July-01-21, 09:29 AM

Heh. I guess basements are our retention ponds now too.

I hear Candice Miller is getting involved now. She's pretty impressive for a Republican.

**Gistok** · July-01-21, 09:51 PM

I'm not an expert in any of this, but just from what i saw on Monday driving around part of the southern end of St. Clair Shores... all the neighborhoods with lots of "basement trash"... couches, furnishings, etc.. was only taken up to the curb south of 9 Mile Rd. No curb trash of any significance was seen north of 9 Mile Rd.

The Chapaton pumping station, handling Eastpointe and most of St. Clair Shores, is at 9 Mile & Jefferson.

So it looks to me as though all storm/sewage south of 9 Mile Rd. was stopped from heading towards Conners Creek, and ended up in people's basements. And all storm/sewage north of 9 Mile, which went thru Chapaton, was treated and released into Lake St. Clair... thus preventing flooding and basement backup in points north of 9 Mile Rd. Tomorrow, Friday July 2, is trash day in my part of SCS [between 10 and 11 Mile], and I went for a bike ride thru our area, and saw no major curbside garbage, as I did see south of 9 Mile.

So it looks like points south of 9 Mile Rd. [in Eastpointe and St. Clair Shores] had flooded basements, and points north of there did not.

**Gistok** · July-01-21, 09:59 PM

And speaking of the Chapaton pumping station @ 9 Mile & Jefferson... I saw this article from last year about abandoning expansion of the sewage overflow capacity there... the state seems to be against it...

https://www.macombdaily.com/2020/01/...ing-completed/

Also, here is a view of the huge Chapaton Station complex. This image is taken from the waters edge by Lake St. Clair looking west to the vast underground storage basin [looks like a parking lot], on to the main building in the distance at Jefferson & 9 Mile.

https://www.ohm-advisors.com/project...trc-monitoring

I remember as a very young child going to Jefferson Beach, just before it was closed and replaced with Chapaton Station.

**MikeM** · July-02-21, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I'm not an expert in any of this, but just from what i saw on Monday driving around part of the southern end of St. Clair Shores... all the neighborhoods with lots of "basement trash"... couches, furnishings, etc.. was only taken up to the curb south of 9 Mile Rd. No curb trash of any significance was seen north of 9 Mile Rd.

The Chapaton pumping station, handling Eastpointe and most of St. Clair Shores, is at 9 Mile & Jefferson.

So it looks to me as though all storm/sewage south of 9 Mile Rd. was stopped from heading towards Conners Creek, and ended up in people's basements. And all storm/sewage north of 9 Mile, which went thru Chapaton, was treated and released into Lake St. Clair... thus preventing flooding and basement backup in points north of 9 Mile Rd. Tomorrow, Friday July 2, is trash day in my part of SCS [between 10 and 11 Mile], and I went for a bike ride thru our area, and saw no major curbside garbage, as I did see south of 9 Mile.

So it looks like points south of 9 Mile Rd. [in Eastpointe and St. Clair Shores] had flooded basements, and points north of there did not.

Great observation. The area in question south of 9 Mile is served by the 8½ Mile Drain, which delivers flow to the Chapaton pumping station. Sounds like either it was closed off at some point during the storm or the area was inundated by the rains as well.

**MrMichigan** · July-02-21, 05:18 PM

When will Metro Detroit separate their sewer systems? The cost will be astronomical but it is long overdue.

Isn’t Grand Rapids in the process of doing this?

**Dumpling** · July-03-21, 09:23 AM

He was not everyone's favorite poster here, might even
have been banned [posting here first as Willi, then as H3O]
on DetroitYes, but at 3:30 pm on Friday June 25th 2021
he did a great job of forecasting that day's impending rain
event.

He's still out there posting as Red Run Drain
Facebook/Wordpress.

https://www.facebook.com/RedRunDrain/

WWTP operators definitely appreciate it when someone calls
prestorm right, it does help with setup and planning.
Careful listeners on that Friday may have caught the
weathercasters' comment "a little rotation in there"...
which suggested some Harvey characteristic to that
storm...but, it's not QUITE their place to say this is it,
we think this is the storm that could take out your
basement. So this is where you want to have a
worry wart Mom or friend to tell you that part.

**Dumpling** · July-03-21, 09:42 AM

Well there are definitely going to be inquiries into what
happened that weekend.

Macomb County Public Works Commissioner Candice Miller
is advocating for this.

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/m...tation-failure

The GLWA has separate groups with their variously defined
work assignments, and the separate groups have their particular
orientations about their jobs, which do periodically need
assessing. One particular section in the Michigan Radio
article read as follows:

"...gates outside [Conner Creek] wouldn't open and that
GLWA employees assigned to Conner Creek did not make
other attempts to break down the gates and turn on
generators..."

GLWA has a security operation with its own personnel
and its own particular focus; it coordinates with the
Fusion Center for this area. There simply weren't seven
inches in most of the weather forecasts for that storm
though, just two to three inches max.

Suffice it to say that no GLWA plant operator will override
a security function. No plant operator will break down
any automatic gate in the event of a power outage or
remove any chain around any pedestrian entrance gate.
That function belongs solely to the security arm of GLWA.

Things will be considered at inquiries and in courtrooms
of course, but on paper, it looks as though the security
arm of GLWA will need to take advice 24/7/365 from the
equivalent of H3O or the weathercaster that spotted
"a little rotation in there" or a worry wart Mom that
knows when the stuff in the basement is at risk. This
might not be easy at first.

**Dumpling** · July-03-21, 02:33 PM

CEO McCormick's response adds a bit more information.

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/g...uring-flooding

The operators there were clearly having a bad day...one item
in particular could have happened to an operator here where I work,
so I made a note for further discussion. It may come down
as a memo in a few months too. We have the priming pumps
[which are not much used] about fifteen feet away from a
circuit breaker.

"The Conner Creek pump station experienced a house power
outage from a leaking vacuum priming pump that sprayed
water on the circuit breaker within the pump station,"
McCormick said.

When the facility where I work went online, whenever a
pump lost its prime, the plumbing crew was called to prime
the pump and make sure that it continued to run.

A priming pump should make this job doable and easy
for the operator to take care of without creating work for
the plumbers. It's a great idea. However the plumbing is
in all probability made of PVC pipe.

In days of yore the piping would have been cast iron. The pump
would be toast if it was operated against a closed valve
for a great length of time, but there would be no spray,
and the circuit breaker would be fine.
Nowadays the pump is fine, but the PVC pipe and the
circuit breaker are shot, if there is some obstruction or
closed valve in the system. I've never run the priming pumps
here but if I had to do that today I'd be calling in the plumbers.

Then there's another explanation for Freud/Conner Creek
pump issues that I'd like to comment on. It is in this paragraph
about the onset of the problems:

"The problems began when Freud lost power because one of the
substations powering it went offline for reasons that remain
unclear. McCormick said Freud has a generator, but they're
only equipped to provide "redundancy" for one substation.
As it happens, that was the substation that was still functioning.
That meant [it] that when it came time to energize the pumps
for the rain event, there were several "trip events" that made
them slow to come online. "

The substations are owned and operated by DTE. Substations
go down for various reasons but this is much more likely
during a storm. They could flood or become damaged or
their grid has fallen lines and so on.

If one of the two substations went down in a storm, it is very
possible that the other substation supplying power to Freud
then provided "brownout" power, due to increased demand
from the grid. There may have been a switchgear that
automatically switched to whichever substation would
supply power to the pump station. This "brownout" power
would have probably been enough to prevent the backup
generator from powering on until an electrician forced this
power off and forced the generator to start. On the other
hand this "brownout" power would have been insufficient
for starting a pump, though pumps already running might
continue to do so. This is strictly a guess. If the pumps
would not start even in manual mode from the circuit
breaker this would be why.

Another possible reason that the pumps were slow to start is
that interlock faults were set within their SCADA controllers
when the first substation went down or for whatever other
reason.

If these could not be cleared someone would need to
start the pumps onsite in manual mode from their circuit
breaker. If the substation were supplying adequate
power then the pumps should start.

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 09:42 AM

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/showth...-of-2011/page2

MikeM posted that for Detroit, rainfall amounts over
600% of the normal amount occurred that week.

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 11:02 AM

https://www.wxyz.com/news/what-cause...e%20have%20now.

The wettest day in Detroit ever was on July 31, 1925, when
4.75" of rain fell within one day. So that was our first thousand
five hundred one hundred or whatever you like storm.
For sure it was a 100 year storm. So then the next 100
year storm would be predicted to occur in 2025.

4.57" fell at Detroit Metro Airport on August 11, 2014,
which qualifies that rainfall as the second highest in one
day for Detroit. That's close enough to 2025 so it can
also be a 100 year storm, following on the heels of the
July 1925 storm plus 100 minus about a decade.

But then...no more storms like it until the year 2114?

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 12:17 PM

Today Devin Scillian is hosting a Flashpoint chat with GLWA
CEO Sue McCormick, Macomb DPW Commissioner Candice
Miller, and a representative from MDOT to discuss system
wide failures that occurred during the flooding that happened
starting on 6/25/21.

They are bringing out that this was an almost unprecedented
flood and that global warming climate change is a factor and
that wastewater disposal systems were overwhelmed. All of
which is true!

Given that FEMA, local government entities, and insurance
companies don't appear to be readily forthcoming with
reimbursements for everyone that suffered damages...
and if anything, local governments and affiliated companies
such as towing firms or perhaps civil engineering firms
are cashing in, we are not in a good place for the wellbeing
and the well wishes of the general public.

A few years ago I posted some calculations about inches of
rain and how much was coming into the WWTP with a goal
of determining the percent paved area of the region...did
that...then needed to calculate what would be a fair drainage
fee for a given area but never quite got to that.

Here we go again with something like that.

1 cubic foot = 7.48052 US liquid gallon

The first goal will be to compute how many gallons are in
one inch of rainfall on one square mile. MGD or million gallons
per day is the working unit of measure for this wastewater
treatment plant and which shows up on the screens as we
watch over it. The metro Detroit area is laid out as
square miles. Rainfall is most commonly reported in Detroit
as inches. The metric system has its definite advantages
but American Traditional units of measure are what we
would best understand for the goals at hand.

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 12:39 PM

One inch is one twelfth of a foot or 0.08333 foot.
1 foot by 1 foot square area times 0.08333 foot in height
for rainfall caught in a one foot square box gives
0.08333 cubic feet of rainfall per square foot whenever
an inch of rain falls on it.

Converting this to gallons: 0.08333 x 7.48052 =
0.62338 gallons [using the conversion 1 cubic foot =
7.48052 US liquid gallon].

I'm somewhat arbitrarily using five decimal places
the working amounts. So checking online for the
conversion for square feet in a square mile [don't
have it in my head like some do] there is

27,878,000 square feet per square mile. Your
mileage may vary a little bit.

0.62338 gallons per square foot x 27,878,000 square
feet per square mile equals 17,379,000 gallons per
square mile after cancelling out the square foot.

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 12:48 PM

This is a large enough volume that we can switch to the
more helpful MG or Million Gallons as the volume unit of
measure.

17,379,000 gallons is equal to 17.379 Million Gallons
per square mile of area. If one inch of rain falls on the
area from Nine Mile Road to Ten Mile Road and from
Greenfield Road to Southfield Road that would be 17.379
Million Gallons.

Now I'm going to use roundish guesstimate kinds of
numbers. The City of Detroit has 140 square miles.
[Actually the land area is a little less and the area including
water is a little more]. The drainage area INCLUDING
Detroit is four times the area of Detroit. So, 4 x 140 =
560 square miles. For argument's sake envision this
drainage area to the WWTP as being a flat circle.
I know that's an oversimplication and might not be
necessary for present purposes even. Trying to decide
whether to mentally put the WWTP in the center or
on the perimeter. Okay, going with, it is on the perimeter
of a flat circular drainage area that is 560 square miles.
If an inch of rain instantaneously falls on this circle then
that is 560 x 17 MG = 9520 MG. The maximum capacity
of the WWTP under optimal conditions [NOT what happens
in a normal 100 year storm] is about 1700 MGD. Dividing
that by the 24 hours of the day gives about 71 Million
Gallons in an hour that the plant can process, given that
it is not experiencing 100 year storm stuff like sump flooding,
power outages, Rouge River flooding, skilled trades people
stuck on flooded roads, etcetera.

The impervious part of the drainage area was earlier estimated
to be about one quarter of the drainage area and was distributed
throughout the drainage area. However in a 100 year rain
storm there would be so much rain that it would not soak into
the ground nearly as well as for a normal rain storm so a higher
proportion of the rainfall would go into the sewer system or
the river or the flood zones or the below ground expressways.

...and basements...so sorry about that!

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 02:29 PM

There's an old Camp Dresser McKee Master Plan from the
early 2000's online that had some helpful information for this
discussion.

https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1126/ML112620177.pdf

A paragraph on page 5 of Volume 1 - Planning Criteria section
[second section] is helpful in understanding how much
rainwater the sewer system is capable of efficiently carrying
away. It's a little oddly worded:

"In wet weather, the DWSD regional system will reach
capacity in most pipes during a storm with a return frequency
of one month. Such a storm provides about 0.5 inches
per hour of rain, and this will yield 0.25 inches of runoff.
Much of the trunk and interceptor system was designed
to carry 0.25 inches per hour."

This is so cool, because the other year, sometime around
2014 or 2017, we calculated that one quarter of the rainfall
became runoff that came to the WWTP. Or looked at
differently, about one quarter of the region's surface area
was impervious at the time.

This means that since 2003 when the Master Plan was
written, people have been making a good difference by
disconnecting downspouts, installing permeable
pavements and rain gardens and the like. This means that
we can now handle one inch of rainfall per hour with the
same system which formerly had the capacity for a half
inch of rainfall. [Except, maybe not for a 100 year storm.]

**Dumpling** · July-04-21, 03:16 PM

One more post and that's it for now. So this WWTP can
manage a peak volume of 71 million gallons per hour.
About 21 million gallons of that is regular sewage from homes
and businesses. That leaves 50 million gallons per hour
that can be from rainfall. 50 million gallons divided by
the 560 square mile service area gives 0.089 million
gallons of rainfall per square mile per hour that the WWTP
can process. That's a tiny amount, it's only about five
percent of the 17.379 million gallons computed above,
rather than the twenty five percent that the system is
reputed to be capable of carrying.

I almost hate to say this but it looks as though the WWTP
becomes a bottleneck quite early during a one inch per
hour rain event.

It should be able to manage 4.3 million gallons per square
mile per hour, or twenty five percent of the 17.379 million
gallons per square mile for a one inch rainfall.

**Henry Whalley** · July-04-21, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

I guess these midwest floods are sort of good timing since it brings attention to the issue while the infrastructure bill is being made.

Speaking of infrastructure, here are some great photos of the Edmonston Pumping Station that supplies water to Southern California.
The Big Lift: A photo tour of the State Water Project’s Edmonston Pumping Plant – Maven's Photoblog [[mavensphotoblog.com)

**Dumpling** · July-05-21, 07:44 AM

"The Big Lift" is a nice photo tour. Thank you for posting it!

**Zacha341** · July-05-21, 11:01 AM

I live near Mid Town area - didn't get any water but drove down Moross recently and it was so sad to see peoples items set out from the storm. Then I contacted someone living just off Jefferson to learn that they had five-feet of water which rose fast and sat, until the pumps where turned back on.

All of her things stored and appliances ruined. She may just sell and move at this point - having gone thru this twice over the last decade.

Originally Posted by Lowell

Thus spake God unto man, “Thou shalt not build basements in Michigan and fill them with earthly goods. “

Man defied God and God sent a mighty flood to fill the sinners' basements.

[Proposed addition to the Bible written by an unrepentant sinner with at least five basements flooding. Fortunately none worse than six inches. So far!]