Return of the Q line

[EGrant]

They've been coning off the lane with the Q-Line tracks on Pistons and Wings gamedays in front of LCA and The Fox since 2019. Nice to see something slightly more permanent, even if it's just paint.

[angry_fred]

They've been coning off the lane with the Q-Line tracks on Pistons and Wings gamedays in front of LCA and The Fox since 2019. Nice to see something slightly more permanent, even if it's just paint.

Hopefully this means "no cars in this lane, regardless of whether or not LCA is currently hosting an event". It would be really nice to see this happen anywhere that Woodward is more than 2 Lanes in each direction. Easy to implement.

If we can do some painting and a little bit of signal priority, the Qline might not suck as bad.

Obviously, when the time comes to rebuild Woodward, we need to relocate track to the center

[softailrider]

Was downtown yesterday and saw they were painting portions of the Qline lanes red. On Twitter I saw this tweet, turns out they may be making sections of Southbound Woodward Qline only. Picture below is from the tweet:


This will definitely help timeliness of the Qline and exactly what many other on this forum wanted. No need for Woodward to have more than 2 lanes each way for auto traffic. I think this is great. Norhtbound woodward has parking between the sidewalk and the Qline lane. Could turn the parking into 2 way bike and have the qline lane be qline only. Would still have 2 lanes + median for auto traffic. Or just expand the sidewalks like they did south of grand circus.

No need for more then 2 lanes each way on Woodward for auto traffic? According to who, besides you?

[angry_fred]

No need for more then 2 lanes each way on Woodward for auto traffic? According to who, besides you?

Rails carry more people than Lanes. The average commuter rail line can displace an entire four lane highway

[Hermod]

Rails carry more people than Lanes. The average commuter rail line can displace an entire four lane highway

Only if it is convenient and pleasant to ride.

[ShadowSoarer]

No need for more then 2 lanes each way on Woodward for auto traffic? According to who, besides you?

Isn't most of Woodward in Downtown 2 lanes each way?

[kuuma]

Hopefully this means "no cars in this lane, regardless of whether or not LCA is currently hosting an event". It would be really nice to see this happen anywhere that Woodward is more than 2 Lanes in each direction. Easy to implement.

biked past LCA this evening to check out this lane, they have TRANSIT ONLY painted in a few spots and a row of reflectors installed. forgot to take a pic but it definitely looks like a permanent rail-only zone. hopeful they do more than just the arena!

[THE FURY 617]

biked past LCA this evening to check out this lane, they have TRANSIT ONLY painted in a few spots and a row of reflectors installed. forgot to take a pic but it definitely looks like a permanent rail-only zone. hopeful they do more than just the arena!

It's offical!! Q-Line and buses lane only!!!! I hope that it's gonna expand the transit only lane in the future instead in the front of LCA. Link to the story: https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...djUf0TM9JKBdCk

[Honky Tonk]

The giraffe running up to the screen in the next frame scared me.

[bust]

Two lanes for cars?
Enough already.
We not LA
Much.

[bartocktoo]

It's offical!! Q-Line and buses lane only!!!! I hope that it's gonna expand the transit only lane in the future instead in the front of LCA. Link to the story: https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...djUf0TM9JKBdCk

This is good news

[kuuma]

looking at the track placement of the rest of the Q line, it seems pretty straightforward to continue transit-only lanes through midtown, where the lanes are on the outside. why do they cross to the inside lanes north of I-94? the center platforms make sense, but wouldn't consistency make more sense?

i cannot make any sense of the rail lane layout downtown though. southbound Q rail moves to the middle lane in front of the Fox Theatre, which just looks whack as hell, as if to make room for two lanes of parking/dropoff, then back to the outer lane by Grand Circus. seems unviable to make transit-only lanes around that swervy mess.

as for transit-only lanes from Campus Martius to Grand Circus, would make for single lane traffic, but could be possible with some caveats [[truck/bike restrictions, limited left turns).

[Rocket]

^ Being on the outside destroys small business.

Detroit is an old city, not designed with parking in mind. Many Detroit businesses only have a few parking spots, right in front on the street. Put a rail lane there and the business is done for.

The only solution is to knock down every other building to make off street parking, which has been done in some parts, but as you get up towards Grand Blvd, you start to see strips of stores that would have to be abandoned if light rail went past them on the curb.

[JonWylie]

^ Being on the outside destroys small business.

Detroit is an old city, not designed with parking in mind. Many Detroit businesses only have a few parking spots, right in front on the street. Put a rail lane there and the business is done for.

The only solution is to knock down every other building to make off street parking, which has been done in some parts, but as you get up towards Grand Blvd, you start to see strips of stores that would have to be abandoned if light rail went past them on the curb.

You could just ride the QLine instead of needing to park right in front of the business...

[kuuma]

Many Detroit businesses only have a few parking spots, right in front on the street. Put a rail lane there and the business is done for.

is it really so vital that the parking be literally in front of the Woodward businesses? the side streets between Woodward and Cass are so easy to find parking on. do we for real expect Midtown's commerce to crumble if people are expected to walk an extra 100 steps around the corner to get to a restaurant?

it's just kind of unbelievable to me that in a town where there are probably 100,000 parking spaces in downtown/midtown, many over lots that deserve to be developed, that walking even a block or two becomes a dealbreaker.

[Rocket]

You could just ride the QLine instead of needing to park right in front of the business...

Well, in theory.

The reality is probably that only a couple percent of a business' customers can use the Q-line to shop.

The customer would need to;

Live within easy walking distance of the Q.

Not mind standing in freezing cold for 15 - 30 min in the Winter waiting for a QLine car, BOTH WAYS.

Not be shopping for much, so as to be willing and able to carry everything they bought for the perhaps 45 min it takes to get on a Qline, ride to their stop, and finally walk to their home.

Not be making multiple stops, where you buy a number of things, pick up your dry cleaning etc, and keep putting the stuff in your trunk after each stop, buying your groceries last.

Not be buying anything bulky or heavy.

Not have children, whose hands you'll have to hold while waiting on a platform for a Q-Line car, because you have your arms full of stuff.

Etc.

It really only works for people attending events, or going to the bar, or a restaurant or something like a cell phone store.

For all the rest of the businesses, It will be really hard to stay open when 90+ % of your customers stop coming. In fact your profit is probably zero if just 20% stop coming.


The Q-Line should be designed so that it ADDS to business volume, not sacrifices 95% for the more hip 5%.

[JonWylie]

Well, in theory.

The reality is probably that only a couple percent of a business' customers can use the Q-line to shop.

The customer would need to;

Live within easy walking distance of the Q.

Not mind standing in freezing cold for 15 - 30 min in the Winter waiting for a QLine car, BOTH WAYS.

Not be shopping for much, so as to be willing and able to carry everything they bought for the perhaps 45 min it takes to get on a Qline, ride to their stop, and finally walk to their home.

Not be making multiple stops, where you buy a number of things, pick up your dry cleaning etc, and keep putting the stuff in your trunk after each stop, buying your groceries last.

Not be buying anything bulky or heavy.

Not have children, whose hands you'll have to hold while waiting on a platform for a Q-Line car, because you have your arms full of stuff.

Etc.

It really only works for people attending events, or going to the bar, or a restaurant or something like a cell phone store.

For all the rest of the businesses, It will be really hard to stay open when 90+ % of your customers stop coming. In fact your profit is probably zero if just 20% stop coming.


The Q-Line should be designed so that it ADDS to business volume, not sacrifices 95% for the more hip 5%.

But there's no indication that it has sacrificed any percent, let alone 95%.

[Rocket]

But there's no indication that it has sacrificed any percent, let alone 95%.

What we were talking about above is why the rail-cars go down the center or Woodward, instead of at the curb.

And I was saying that if they HAD gone down the curb,.. businesses would have lost all of their street parking, and big chunk of their car-driving customers.

The designers must have realized that it would be financial suicide to sacrifice the current customer base for an unknown, perhaps miniscule one. Projects like this need to ADD customers, not trade one group for another.

[bartocktoo]

What we were talking about above is why the rail-cars go down the center or Woodward, instead of at the curb.

And I was saying that if they HAD gone down the curb,.. businesses would have lost all of their street parking, and big chunk of their car-driving customers.

The designers must have realized that it would be financial suicide to sacrifice the current customer base for an unknown, perhaps miniscule one. Projects like this need to ADD customers, not trade one group for another.

What group to what group? Curious.

[Rocket]

What group to what group? Curious.

Srsly ?

1. Car drivers
2. Q-Line riders.

We shouldn't sacrifice all the car driving customers that a business has now for potential Q-Line riders that may or may not materialize.

If you're gonna spend hundreds of millions on something, it should ADD to the bottom line, not sacrifice a sure thing for an unknown.

[Jason]

Removing the street parking and making a transit-only lane would improve the function of Woodward for all users.

Cars would move more smoothly and reliably because they wouldn't be interacting with people parking, buses/trains stopping, and the extra lane merging. Buses and trains would obviously be faster and more reliable. Pedestrians would have wider sidewalks with more space for traffic buffering landscaping as well as outdoor restaurant seating. And a lot of traffic isn't people actually going anywhere, it's people circling around looking for parking.

Street parking adds complexity and messiness to a street. Smooth traffic flow is more important for roads than lanes and speed limits. Most of the world doesn't put street parking on main roads.


Businesses and their patrons would also benefit from removing the street parking.

The street parking's value is deceptive. It gives people the impression that parking is available, but the amount is so low that most people just get frustrated when they have to go find a lot anyway. If you have a restaurant with 20 tables, how useful is having two street parking spots out front? People would have a better experience if they just went straight to a lot/garage they like and then walk from there.

How many customers would stop coming if there were no street parking? How many new customers would be attracted by having nice outdoor seating and a landscaped noise buffer? How many new customers are added by having one or two parking spots out front, and how many new customers are added by having 4,000 additional transit riders passing by every day?


Transit-only lanes would save the city about $4 million a year.

For the Woodward bus, the whole route is about 45 minutes. 20 minutes of that is from New Center to downtown. Google maps says that driving through there in light traffic [[the equivalent of a transit lane) takes 10 minutes. Trimming 10 minutes off that would make the route about 20% cheaper to operate. If they ran all the midtown buses through the transit lanes and consolidated the bus stops onto the QLine stations, the city would save about $4 million a year.


I don't know exactly what anyone's opinions are, but I'm guessing the city is in favor of converting those lanes into transit lanes in midtown. But the state owns the road and MDOT thinks that Woodward needs 3 lanes in each direction. They allowed the tiny new transit only segment because they think that particular segment can get by with 2. It's the same thing with the 375 removal, MDOT is convinced that it needs a billion lanes, and it's their road.

[Satiricalivory]

Agreed that Woodward does not need 6 lanes for vehicle traffic. It should have a dedicated transit lane all the way to New Center.

[Pat001]

I don't get what the Q line does that buses can't do.

[DetroitSoldier]

I don't get what the Q line does that buses can't do.

Absolutely nothing. In fact it does less. However, survey after survey of travelers around the world show that they prefer trains over buses in new places. For out of town visitors and people not familiar with the area, there is a perceived comfort in that trains cannot leave a specific route that they assume is safer than a bus.

The ability for out of town guests to move quickly and safely from downtown hotels to midtown shopping and cultural center museums is a good thing. The fact that they don't feel confident or safe in taking the local bus system is not a uniquely Detroit issue, though our reputation as an unsafe city definitely does no favors.

[Satiricalivory]

I don't get what the Q line does that buses can't do.

Q line is higher capacity, electric so it doesn't pollute the air and it runs on rails so it doesn't destroy the road with it's weight the way buses do. It also has a much higher sense of permanence which increases property values.

There, now you know what a streetcar does that buses don't.