Return of the Q line

**renf** · June-08-21, 08:26 AM

Does anyone know the date when the Q line service will return to normal operation? I recall reading in February that the contract with the firm that had operated the Q line would be
terminated this month and that service would return in June or a little later this summer. Detroit is returning to normal and there is a need for the Q line service.

**drjeff** · June-08-21, 11:49 AM

They've been running the cars all day for at least the past week with "not in service" signs on them. Seems like they are ready to go.

**renf** · June-08-21, 01:14 PM

I hope so. I like to park near the Cultural Center when I go to see the
Tigers at Comerica.

**casscorridor** · June-08-21, 02:25 PM

Quite possibly the worst "transit" line in the world.

**401don** · June-08-21, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

Quite possibly the worst "transit" line in the world.

So what you're saying is you really like the people mover.

**Danny** · June-08-21, 07:26 PM

In the summer.... I hope!

**ShadowSoarer** · June-08-21, 02:34 PM

This article says late summer. Not sure why so late even though buses have been operating the whole time.

Even cities like Phoenix, Denver, and even Milwaukee have been operating their light rail since the beginning of the pandemic.

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2021/03/29/detroits-qline-returns-but-it-isnt-taking-any-passengers-yet

**stasu1213** · June-09-21, 07:31 PM

I used to park my car on Piquette near Woodward and jump in the Qline before the pandemic. Now some a$$whole in city government decided to install meters down Piquette so that we have to pay to park

**renf** · June-10-21, 08:32 AM

What is the reason the Q line is not operating now? At one point, we read that the delay was due to a lack of crews knowledgable about operating the line. But practice runs have been frequently in recent weeks? Is there an issue about the requirement that users of public transit ware masks and what to do about passengers who refuse? Or was there a contract with the firm that had operated the Q line that has not yet expired?
Thank you.

**detroitbob** · June-10-21, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by renf

Or was there a contract with the firm that had operated the Q line that has not yet expired?
Thank you.

The contract with the company that operated the line was terminated due to many issues, foremost being the refusal of that company to extend operating hours to meet event scheduling or demand. The Q Line now promises more flexible hours to meet downtown and special event schedules.

**Burnsie** · June-10-21, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I used to park my car on Piquette near Woodward and jump in the Qline before the pandemic. Now some a$$whole in city government decided to install meters down Piquette so that we have to pay to park

Probably a good sign. Parking meters indicate a place is getting busy. They help offset street and sidewalk maintenance costs.

**Baselinepunk** · June-10-21, 12:52 PM

Saw OLine with no out of order sign but it doesn't matter -- it's still out of order.

QLine is a textbook example of what not to do for urban transit.

**stasu1213** · June-10-21, 01:10 PM

The reason why the Qline was not a good system is for there were those in Detroit who didn't want it to be successful one reason it was taking business away from DDOT for the shorter trips up and down Woodward. I had predicted something like this was going to happen to the Qline. It was supposed to had ran to 8 mile road. Don't blame this system. Blame the non progressive thinking people in city government and elsewhere in Detroit politics

**KnnNike** · June-10-21, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

The reason why the Qline was not a good system is for there were those in Detroit who didn't want it to be successful one reason it was taking business away from DDOT for the shorter trips up and down Woodward. I had predicted something like this was going to happen to the Qline. It was supposed to had ran to 8 mile road. Don't blame this system. Blame the non progressive thinking people in city government and elsewhere in Detroit politics

Oh geez, conspiracy much? Are you a trained transportation engineer or other transit professional? Didn't think so.

QLine "works" as a downtown/midtown "hop on-off" shuttle service. That's how it was intended by Dan Gilbert and other stakeholders who wanted to use it to strengthen their business interests in the area...and ultimately, they financed it, so what they said went.

The problem was that they didn't do anything to discourage the view that it would become the backbone of a regional rail transit system...after all, why would they? They got more support for their project, and after it gets built, there's not much that can be done.

This wasn't some conspiracy by big government; it was simply business interests winning out on something that they were ultimately paying for.

Now is it fixable? Actually, yes. The "fix" would be to shut down the shoulder lanes on Woodward to all automobile traffic, and make these dedicated transit lanes. That would alleviate many of the congestion-related issues that plague the system. You could go one step further and allow buses to continue running in these lanes; then you'd have a win for all transit.

Unfortunately, this is an MDOT road, and time and again history has shown that MDOT doesn't give a flying fuck about Detroit - just look how badly they've let roads like Gratiot [[M3) and Fort [[M85) get. So I don't see that happening any time soon.

**stasu1213** · July-20-21, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by KnnNike

Oh geez, conspiracy much? Are you a trained transportation engineer or other transit professional? Didn't think so.

QLine "works" as a downtown/midtown "hop on-off" shuttle service. That's how it was intended by Dan Gilbert and other stakeholders who wanted to use it to strengthen their business interests in the area...and ultimately, they financed it, so what they said went.

The problem was that they didn't do anything to discourage the view that it would become the backbone of a regional rail transit system...after all, why would they? They got more support for their project, and after it gets built, there's not much that can be done.

This wasn't some conspiracy by big government; it was simply business interests winning out on something that they were ultimately paying for.

Now is it fixable? Actually, yes. The "fix" would be to shut down the shoulder lanes on Woodward to all automobile traffic, and make these dedicated transit lanes. That would alleviate many of the congestion-related issues that plague the system. You could go one step further and allow buses to continue running in these lanes; then you'd have a win for all transit.

Unfortunately, this is an MDOT road, and time and again history has shown that MDOT doesn't give a flying fuck about Detroit - just look how badly they've let roads like Gratiot [[M3) and Fort [[M85) get. So I don't see that happening any time soon.

Is Jefferson an MDOT road? It's in dire need of repaving

**KnnNike** · July-30-21, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Is Jefferson an MDOT road? It's in dire need of repaving

The whole of Jefferson Ave from downtown to out past Belle Isle is slated for major reconstruction, starting...next year, I believe? They're basically tearing out the whole street to also replace a major water main at the same time.

**K-slice** · June-10-21, 06:40 PM

Dedicated lanes, extend it to Ferndale.

**Scottathew** · June-15-21, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by K-slice

Dedicated lanes, extend it to Ferndale.

Dedicated lanes, center-run, signal priority, extend it to Pontiac.

Optionally, make it a bus with all the above.

**5939DT** · June-15-21, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

Dedicated lanes, center-run, signal priority, extend it to Pontiac.

Like this?
Name: usr_c_det_pcc_xxx_woodward+7mile_browns+creamery.jpg
Views: 2417
Size: 50.8 KB

BTW - anyone else remember Brown's Creamery in Highland Park?

**kuuma** · June-18-21, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

Dedicated lanes, center-run, signal priority, extend it to Pontiac.

Optionally, make it a bus with all the above.

agreed, send the rail to Pontiac, then make another on Gratiot and send it to Mt Clemens, then make another on Grand River and send it to Novi.

as a recent Detroiter transplanted from NYC, it drives me crazy how PERFECT Detroit's radial street grid is for light rail, yet we just don't know what we're missing. i know it's an investment, but i wish we could get a critical mass to understand how a comprehensive transit structure would help everyone. the auto industry can 100% coexist with public transit, they just don't wanna even try it.

**mtburb** · June-18-21, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by kuuma

agreed, send the rail to Pontiac, then make another on Gratiot and send it to Mt Clemens, then make another on Grand River and send it to Novi.

And if that becomes successful, build another on Michigan and send it to Metro Airport, then build another on Fort and send it to Trenton, then build another on Van Dyke and send it to Utica, then build another on East Jefferson and send it to Grosse Pointe, and finally build one last line on Ford to Canton.

**EastsideAl** · July-20-21, 09:11 AM

So, I have my first guests in town since the pandemic, and they're old Detroiters who I want to show how the city has positively changed and turned a corner. Any word on when these streetcars are going to be running as anything other than a show again? And what of the People Mover? Any prospect for that running again any time soon, or ever?

**Former_Detroiter** · July-20-21, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by mtburb

And if that becomes successful, build another on Michigan and send it to Metro Airport, then build another on Fort and send it to Trenton, then build another on Van Dyke and send it to Utica, then build another on East Jefferson and send it to Grosse Pointe, and finally build one last line on Ford to Canton.

You left out Grand River and Gratiot.

**Hypestyles** · June-12-21, 04:16 PM

how is payment handled now? cards only?

**Jason** · June-12-21, 06:16 PM

The QLine can't really be expanded into a light rail system, for a few reasons.

The current stations are too small and many of them are in locations where there's not space to make them bigger. Each platform needs to be a few times longer than it is right now, to fit longer trains. And the platforms really need to be deeper, so that there's more room for people to get on and off the trains. When there's crowding at really narrow platforms there are safety issues, and takes longer for people to board. If it takes even 30 seconds longer per stop, it would increase travel times by 10 minutes to Ferndale. The platform depth isn't as much of an issue for neighborhood stations where there aren't going to be a lot of passengers, but many of the current stations are places where you would expect a lot of people to use them.

The current vehicles are street cars and not light rail. You need longer trains with more capacity. You need more doors.

The operations and maintenance facility is too small. It's too small to even use as train storage for light rail trains. And it can't be expanded.

Since you have to move things around in order to get the stations to fit, you'd have to rebuild a lot of the rail itself. There's also the dedicated lanes issue.

And for light rail you would also need to build power substations, which afaik the QLine doesn't have.

So getting the QLine to be light rail would involve redoing it all.

It could be extended as a streetcar short distances though.