Critical Race theory and other threadjacked posts

**Meddle** · February-18-21, 08:25 AM

What the likes of Rush hath wrought.

**401don** · February-18-21, 08:31 AM

Yeah that's for sure. They praised that guy yesterday like he was a hero of conservatism instead of just an exploiter of racism to make a buck. Some of the "highlights" of his comments were truly disgusting. Unfortunately like the dead drug kingpin someone will quickly take his place as long as the demand is there.

**Scottathew** · February-18-21, 09:24 AM

This is today's "conservatism". Trumpism has really enabled these folks to feel comfortable enough to show their true selves. I have no idea why Christianity and conservatism is so snuggled up and intertwined with Trump, racism, intolerance, and hate.

When a third of the country embraces this shit the most you can do is disassociate with these people and teach your kids to be better human beings.

**Satiricalivory** · February-18-21, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

I have no idea why Christianity and conservatism is so snuggled up and intertwined with Trump, racism, intolerance, and hate.

You really don't know? I think it's obvious and historically has always existed.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-18-21, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

This is today's "conservatism". Trumpism has really enabled these folks to feel comfortable enough to show their true selves. I have no idea why Christianity and conservatism is so snuggled up and intertwined with Trump, racism, intolerance, and hate.

When a third of the country embraces this shit the most you can do is disassociate with these people and teach your kids to be better human beings.

Things I believe:

1) Racism remains a problem, but one on the wane until BLM and CRT.

2) Thiss has nothing to do with 'conservatism'

2) Pre-BLM, race relations were improving

3) Critical Race Theory as being brought from academia to schools and workplaces is divisive and counter-productive.

4) The argument that 1/3 of the country is racist is an insulting generalization that runs counter to my experience and the lives of most people.

5) The media is pushing this narrative for self-serving reasons. [[And that includes Silicon Valley social media.). Have you read the Time Magazine story on this?

The most important thing I know is that the labelling of 1/3 of the country as racist is a political narrative. I ask that you think very hard about this, lest you be part of the problem and not the solution.

[[You make a good point about teaching kids.... the question is whether to teach them hatred of 1/3 of the population, or to teach them by example. The Trump intertwinement is easy to explain. Lesser of two evils. That you may not see the evil in the establishment right now is IMO a problem.)

**Danny** · February-18-21, 02:15 PM

There goes Snobbyville!

**Zacha341** · February-18-21, 02:30 PM

I'm only mildly surprise why so many [[young and impressionable) quickly champion CRT. Apparently they've not actually studied its raw meaning and agenda [[sans the appropriate, political buffering).

I was aware of CRT 20 years ago, before it became 'um, 'fashionable'.

Sure much of it can be up for hearty debate, but to not even know the core principles and just happily sign on? Well, it sounds/ sounded anti-trump so that was enough I guess...

...., I'm sure....

......

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Things I believe:

....3) Critical Race Theory as being brought from academia to schools and workplaces is divisive and counter-productive....

**EastsideAl** · February-18-21, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Things I believe:

1) Racism remains a problem, but one on the wane until BLM and CRT.

2) Thiss has nothing to do with 'conservatism'

2) Pre-BLM, race relations were improving

3) Critical Race Theory as being brought from academia to schools and workplaces is divisive and counter-productive.

4) The argument that 1/3 of the country is racist is an insulting generalization that runs counter to my experience and the lives of most people.

5) The media is pushing this narrative for self-serving reasons. [[And that includes Silicon Valley social media.). Have you read the Time Magazine story on this?

The most important thing I know is that the labelling of 1/3 of the country as racist is a political narrative. I ask that you think very hard about this, lest you be part of the problem and not the solution.

[[You make a good point about teaching kids.... the question is whether to teach them hatred of 1/3 of the population, or to teach them by example. The Trump intertwinement is easy to explain. Lesser of two evils. That you may not see the evil in the establishment right now is IMO a problem.)

Well now, you really doubled down there on the blame the victims right-wing BS on race relations didn't you? If only those uppity black folks weren't so damn noisy and uppity we wouldn't hear about any racism at all. If this lady hadn't moved next door to those white people they wouldn't have had any need to fly their klan flag in her face. And if she hadn't made such a big deal out of it, I wouldn't have had to hear about it, and that would have kept me from increasing my racism.

Rush Limbaugh died yesterday, some other people and their similar views really can't pass from our American scene fast enough.

**Zacha341** · February-18-21, 02:49 PM

Expressions and adherents of Christianity are NOT all so snuggled [[no more than all Muslims are politically or socially aligned uniformly).

However, more center, center-right and the right leaning people and groups tend towards Christianity. Noting that they clearly have more freedom [[and acceptance) socially and politically to do so!

In contrast to much of the far left that present open animus towards Christians who they deem as ALL right-winged persons engaged a form of trump-conservatism [[oppressors): rinse, wash, repeat. So it goes, and grows.

In reality this is complex [[how people determine their form of religion relative to their values, race, culture, etc).

But the masses want grouping and neat packaging. Which works towards culling on one hand, and concentrating interests, votes and allies on the other.

Originally Posted by Scottathew

This is today's "conservatism". Trumpism has really enabled these folks to feel comfortable enough to show their true selves. I have no idea why Christianity and conservatism is so snuggled up and intertwined with Trump, racism, intolerance, and hate...

**Meddle** · February-18-21, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Things I believe:

1) Racism remains a problem, but one on the wane until Trump.

2) This has everything to do with 'conservatism'

2) Pre-Trump, race relations were improving

3) Critical Race Theory as being brought from academia to schools and workplaces is informative and educational.

4) The argument that 1/3 of the country is racist is an insulting generalization that runs counter to my experience and the lives of most people.

5) The media is pushing this narrative for public education reasons. [[And that includes Silicon Valley social media.). Have you read the Time Magazine story on this?

The most important thing I know is that the labelling of 1/3 of the country as racist is an underestimate. I ask that you think very hard about this, lest you be part of the problem and not the solution.

[[You make a good point about teaching kids.... the question is whether to teach them hatred of 1/3 of the population, or to teach them by example. The Trump intertwinement is easy to explain. Lesser of two evils. That you may not see the evil in the establishment right now is IMO a problem.)

Fixed your post.

1/3 is far too low, at least in my experience. I'd say half, at least.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · February-18-21, 04:14 PM

It’s nice to know that it’s the not in the life experience of a white conservative like Wesley that 1/3 of the country is racist.

The life experience of myself, a white one time [[ages ago) Republican is a bit different. I’d say 1/3 is an understatement.

**Jason** · February-18-21, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Expressions and adherents of Christianity are NOT all so snuggled [[no more than all Muslims are politically or socially aligned uniformly).

However, more center, center-right and the right leaning people and groups tend towards Christianity. Noting that they clearly have more freedom [[and acceptance) socially and politically to do so!

In contrast to much of the far left that present open animus towards Christians who they deem as ALL right-winged persons engaged a form of trump-conservatism [[oppressors): rinse, wash, repeat. So it goes, and grows.

In reality this is complex [[how people determine their form of religion relative to their values, race, culture, etc).

But the masses want grouping and neat packaging. Which works towards culling on one hand, and concentrating interests, votes and allies on the other.

Statistically speaking, if a person is white and christian and they go to church regularly, there's an 80% chance that they voted for Trump or otherwise approve of him.

Among liberals, 40% are religiously unaffiliated [[a big chunk of these are people who are spiritual or religious but not a member of a specific church), meaning 60% are religious. Religious people are the majority among liberals. It's very silly to say that the majority of the party is pushing itself out. Rather, the democratic party is not based on religion and so people of different religious beliefs can coexist.

American conservatism is an ethnonationalist movement where the national identity is white christian. This is why christian nationalists [[the christian right) and white nationalists have found themselves in such strong alignment.

Black conservative christians don't figure into any of this [[despite on paper being a natural fit) because the christian right isn't about being christian or being conservative [[in the national review sense). It's about being white, and it's about being of a certain type of christian tradition and the black church is very foreign to that.

The reason why it seems like racism and all this other stuff has increased is because the ethnonationalists had believed themselves to already be in a white christian nation, with the exceptions being successfully segregated and kept in the minority. But recently that's been changing.

These types of ethnonationalist movements are common around the world and the US isn't so unique that they don't exist here too.

**Richard** · February-18-21, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by MikeM

Yeah, well.. try explaining that to the sender.

I take some comfort in knowing that the GP elites are fulfilling my imagined idea of their passive-aggressiveness by licking envelopes and stamps, albeit without the club letterhead.

Just prior to this, there was a heated discussion of whether a Trump flag is a political sign, and if it should be taken down by now.

Not to long a ago there was a flag from another country flying that everybody called racist,until they learned what it really was.

One does not have to agree with everything,but when you start making lists of things that you do not agree with and wanting to remove them,the process also includes removing your personal freedoms.

Kinda hard to ask others to give up theirs while you expect to retain yours.

Not you or yours personally but speaking figuratively,have to explain everything spelled out neatly lest it gets twisted.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-19-21, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

Not to mention that BLM is NOT political. It was not a candidate; it was not something to be voted on. Ergo, there is no reason to take them down. Black Lives Mattering is not something that is to be legislated, voted on or petitioned. It is a statement of fact and human rights.

JC... absolutely. Black Lives Matter.

I was not referring to the indisputable statement of fact and human rights. I was referring only the organization, which I should have made more clear.

I ask that you don't let them. Don't support hate. Don't support division. Support and celebrate progress in racial relations.

**Zacha341** · February-19-21, 05:28 AM

Very compelling comments Jason. However, I must point out that I called out the 'far left' as having animus towards Christianity, not liberals per se [[especially traditional liberals). That distinction is very important as the far left by and large distinctly does want to push out Christianity [[as a very crucial mandate), both socially and politically.

They know that Christianity is not compatible with their world view, particularly their socialist agenda [[incrementally, full on, and historically). They tend to be reticent to press negative narratives/ critiques upon Islam and black/ brown Christians. Knowing it is not in their interests to derail these potential allies. Very interesting times.

Originally Posted by Jason

Among liberals, 40% are religiously unaffiliated [[a big chunk of these are people who are spiritual or religious but not a member of a specific church), meaning 60% are religious. Religious people are the majority among liberals. It's very silly to say that the majority of the party is pushing itself out. Rather, the democratic party is not based on religion and so people of different religious beliefs can coexist...

**CR75** · February-19-21, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

You really don't know? I think it's obvious and historically has always existed.

Christianity has always been a vessel for intolerance. One of the pillars of Christianity is the existence of a Heaven that only Christians can access, and everyone else must go to Hell. Once you start sending 'others' to Hell, it's a slippery slope, all you have to modify is the definition of 'others': hence you see anti-semitic legislation backed up by Christian writings in the past, you see anti-islamic talk by politicians backed up by "Judeo-Christian values" today, you see white supremacy backed up by "white Christian" churches around the world, like Jason pointed out.

I am not saying that Christianity is wrong in itself, but there are some fundamental flaws in the doctrine that can easily be exploited by groups peddling intolerant agendas.

**Meddle** · February-19-21, 07:19 AM

Last few posts aren't really relevant to the thread. There is supposed to be a rally for the family this weekend. Anyone going?

**Scottathew** · February-19-21, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Things I believe:

1) Racism remains a problem, but one on the wane until BLM and CRT.

2) Thiss has nothing to do with 'conservatism'

2) Pre-BLM, race relations were improving

3) Critical Race Theory as being brought from academia to schools and workplaces is divisive and counter-productive.

4) The argument that 1/3 of the country is racist is an insulting generalization that runs counter to my experience and the lives of most people.

5) The media is pushing this narrative for self-serving reasons. [[And that includes Silicon Valley social media.). Have you read the Time Magazine story on this?

The most important thing I know is that the labelling of 1/3 of the country as racist is a political narrative. I ask that you think very hard about this, lest you be part of the problem and not the solution.

[[You make a good point about teaching kids.... the question is whether to teach them hatred of 1/3 of the population, or to teach them by example. The Trump intertwinement is easy to explain. Lesser of two evils. That you may not see the evil in the establishment right now is IMO a problem.)

2a) It absolutely does. Conservatives have embraced Donald Trump. American flags removed and replaced with Trump flags. I watched it happen all over. Some of those Trump flags are still out there. Donald Trump and the people that surround him have normalized racist and hateful speech. Donald Trump tells police officers at their academy graduation to rough up detainees. The GOP has bent the knee to Donald Trump and still does to this day.

Conservatism, Donald Trump, racism, and religious hatred\intolerance are all intertwined. They all compliment each other very well.

2b) If you're trying to say that people demanding that police not summarily execute unarmed black people has a negative effect on race relations, you're right. It makes the white power structure pissed off. First slavery is abolished. Then black people start getting equal rights. Then they're allowed to start living in neighborhoods with white people. And now we're trying to make it so that police can't shoot black people for no reason!?

I'm all for police using the force they need to use to go home safe. Sometimes the police have to kill. However, we're not holding them accountable for when they've done things wrong and murdered the Americans they're supposed to be protecting.

4) That's not the argument that I was trying to make. A third of the country embraces conservatism\Trumpism that has intertwined itself with racism. Maybe they embrace it because they're racist. Or maybe they embrace it because of the unborn babies [[but yet whine about wearing a fucking mask because they're hypocrites that don't actually care about "life").

5) I'm not in love with the media, but I think the conservative crowd is boogey-manning on them too hard. I have drastically reduced my media consumption because of how much opinion is injected to it.

**Bong-Man** · February-19-21, 10:10 AM

Instead of stricter voter laws, I would feel a lot more comfortable if some people were given a mandatory refresher course towards the importance of separation of church & State. Apparently those public school lectures during 7th & 9th grade Civics & Government classes towards this fundamental concept of our government either weren't embraced or totally ignored. We are all worse off because of it.

So much of 'old-time religion' is still nothing more than 'conform or be shunned'. We can't make you come to church with us, but we'll be damned if you're going to buy booze on Sunday while we're worshiping.

When someone tells me their biggest political issue is banning abortion, an immediate red flag is raised. Bringing invisible sky people into a legal question that's already been decided to be a personal issue, tells me you need a Civics refresher course. It's two parties...the Mother & the State. Not three parties...the Mother, The State, and an invisible man. See paragraph one.

Anyone offended ? Too bad ! From the Egyptians to the Romans, the Incas, & American Indians, Man has created thousands of Gods. The only difference between you and I is one[[1).

If you honestly believe Donald Trump was God's messenger on Earth, and that's what influenced your vote, you may need professional help as much as a Q-anon member.

**Feel free to delete. I won't be offended**

**Jimaz** · February-19-21, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bong-Man

... Bringing invisible sky people into a legal question that's already been decided ....

How dare you blaspheme The Flying Spaghetti Monster!

**bust** · February-19-21, 01:22 PM

Fourth generation Grosse Pointer here.

Scottahew didn't say it, but if he said a third of Americans are racist, it's an underestimation. Being "racist" is not a binary you are or you aren't operation-- there's a vast grey area. Who among us can claim they're at the 100% or 0% mark? We all have our prejudices, some of them based on ethnicity and race. And we all have hope, even if we don't admit it or even realize it.

When I grew up in Grosse Pointe at least 30% would openly admit to being racist. When kids jumped on top of each other [[to recover a fumble playing football, for example) it was a "nigger pile." When we were cheated or scammed we were "jewed." Asians were the butt of dumb jokes. After all, Grosse Pointe realtors used a race/ethnicity-based point system to determine who could buy a house, and where. Those "others" barely even existed to us.

So many generations ago when my Detroit family fled to the forest and swamps of Grosse Pointe they were point systemed into a specific neighborhood. Well and good for them-- there was a streetcar nearby, and it was safe.

Today I doubt 30% of Grosse Pointers would openly admit they're racist. Many of the openly racist have since kicked off, moved some miles North, or retired South. But if we apply the "one-drop rule" we all are.

As far as race relations improving until BLM and CRT, our resident Ayn Rand devotee sure has a imagination, and it's selective.

The turning point was DJT. As in Donald J. Trump. Everything quickly got worse, across the spectrum, with him.

CRT? What the hell is that?

I agree I lean "left", and I've taught various semesters at universities. Interracial family. According to him I should be one of its proponents, but I'd never even heard of it.

It's obviously yet another bogeyman contrived to disparage his critics. Someone should analyze what media sources use the term, and who's heard of it. I'll all but guarantee the vast majority lean right, often so far they stray into disinformation territory.

The same ones who say it was antifa who invaded the Capitol. And claim it was green energy, not deregulation, cronyism, and corruption that crippled Texas utility infrastructure. And voter fraud, so much voter fraud.

What a laugh, were the consequences not so sad.

**Danny** · February-20-21, 04:35 PM

If the GPP racist hang the KKK, UKA, Proud Boys, or even a Nazi Swastika flag in their window next to my home. I just hang my Black Lives Matter Flag in my window, too.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-21-21, 12:57 PM

Pre-BLM, race relations were improving

Wesley, this is total BS here. At no point has race relations improved.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-21-21, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Not to long a ago there was a flag from another country flying that everybody called racist,until they learned what it really was.

One does not have to agree with everything,but when you start making lists of things that you do not agree with and wanting to remove them,the process also includes removing your personal freedoms.

Kinda hard to ask others to give up theirs while you expect to retain yours.

Not you or yours personally but speaking figuratively,have to explain everything spelled out neatly lest it gets twisted.

Personal freedoms do not include attempts to threaten or intimidate others. It goes without saying that in the entire existence of the KKK threats of violence and intimidation was and is the main purpose of the organization.