Coldest Weather Outbreak in Over 30 Years......

**Zacha341** · February-16-21, 11:39 AM

https://weather.com/safety/winter/ne...dwest-february

Winter Storm Deadly --Millions Without Power

https://weather.com/news/news/2021-0...utages-impacts

Americans under winter weather alerts...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/15/weath...day/index.html

**Gistok** · February-16-21, 01:53 PM

Thankfully the weather [[with the exception of the snow) won't be that bad here for Michigan. It will only go below zero for 4 hours tomorrow early AM.

**Jimaz** · February-18-21, 09:39 AM

Part of Texas' problem is their defiance against federal regulation.

Texplainer: Why does Texas have its own power grid?

Sometimes obstinance will bite ya in the butt.

**Bong-Man** · February-18-21, 10:17 AM

We Michiganders need to understand that something like this could happen here. It's best to always be prepared during the Winter months. Keep an extra stock of food and non-perishable items. Keep your vehicle gas tanks filled up. Keep a supply of batteries for flashlights, a radio, and other items. Keep a supply of drinkable water. Also an extra supply of food for any pets you may have. Try to keep a stock of any medications you use on a daily basis.

In January of 1998, areas of Quebec went without electrical power for 40 days because of an ice storm. No fun was had. It can happen....be prepared !

**Richard** · February-18-21, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Bong-Man

We Michiganders need to understand that something like this could happen here. It's best to always be prepared during the Winter months. Keep an extra stock of food and non-perishable items. Keep your vehicle gas tanks filled up. Keep a supply of batteries for flashlights, a radio, and other items. Keep a supply of drinkable water. Also an extra supply of food for any pets you may have. Try to keep a stock of any medications you use on a daily basis.

In January of 1998, areas of Quebec went without electrical power for 40 days because of an ice storm. No fun was had. It can happen....be prepared !

This X 1000

I remember my Minnesota winter youth,even in the car everybody used to carry a blanket,small shovel,some sand etc in case one became stranded.

Texas has its own independent power grid,the operators said that they can winterize,but it is expensive for something that may happen every 10 years,so the added costs does not justify.

They are not a part of the national grid and not under federal guidelines.

I think the biggest problem is if you live in an apartment,it becomes hard without a back up generator,but in Florida with hurricanes many buildings and apartments have back up generators for emergencies.

Did you see the mayor that quit after telling everybody to get off of their ass and except some personal responsibility and quit complaining. Lol

Kinda sucks spending all of those millions on wind turbines and solar that became pretty much worthless.

Before our last hurricane I had a brand new in the box generator for sale on marketplace for 6 months,with only little lowball offers.

The day before a storm was supposed to hit,I had 65 responses in 2 hours,I ended up having to give that guy a gas can because you could not even find those.

The point is,even though people know to be prepared,most never will and then freak out at the last moment.

The worst Is when they yell at the linemen and give them a hard time,without realizing that they also have families without power and are trying to do their job.

**Dumpling** · February-18-21, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

This X 1000

Kinda sucks spending all of those millions on wind turbines and solar that became pretty much worthless.

I've been trying to figure out just what exactly froze with
the natural gas supply in Texas, reducing the natural gas
supply by half. Did CNG/LNG freeze directly at all?

Were the pumps pulling natural gas from the ground not
winter weather ready, so then residual water in pump lubricants
turned into ice and then these pumps would not work? Apparently
at least some of them were powered by electricity that was
supplied by the Texas grid and had no backup generators.

To be sure the wind turbines iced over and stopped which was
not helpful in alleviating the power outages.

Apparently often it is water that gets into natural gas piping and
then freezes.

Texas’ natural gas production just froze under pressure - The Verge

But if you are better informed about the specifics, write on!

**Gistok** · February-18-21, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Kinda sucks spending all of those millions on wind turbines and solar that became pretty much worthless.

Sucks even more when Texans don't "winterize" their wind turbines. The turbines here in the midwest work perfectly fine in conditions up to 40 below...

https://windurance.com/2021/02/16/fr...in-the-winter/

I guess Texas doing things to avoid federal regulations bit them in the ass, just as it did in 2011.

The hundreds of thousands of Texas homes that likely have burst water pipes and ruined plasterwork will be a problem for a long time to come... especially if your house's water system is broken.

**Richard** · February-18-21, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

I've been trying to figure out just what exactly froze with
the natural gas supply in Texas, reducing the natural gas
supply by half. Did CNG/LNG freeze directly at all?

Were the pumps pulling natural gas from the ground not
winter weather ready, so then residual water in pump lubricants
turned into ice and then these pumps would not work? Apparently
at least some of them were powered by electricity that was
supplied by the Texas grid and had no backup generators.

To be sure the wind turbines iced over and stopped which was
not helpful in alleviating the power outages.

Apparently often it is water that gets into natural gas piping and
then freezes.

Texas’ natural gas production just froze under pressure - The Verge

But if you are better informed about the specifics, write on!

I never posted I was better informed on anything.

My post simply said

Kinda sucks spending all of those millions on wind turbines and solar that became pretty much worthless.

Then you and Gistok go off on a rampage over things to you made up in your heads.

It is not that difficult,places that regularly see extreme cold weather prepare for it differently then places that get it occasionally.

The price is reflected in your bills,my electric heating and cooling costs run me less then $90 a month,how about ya all’s?

That is my total electric bill.

My water pipes are run under my vintage raised house uninsulated,last time they froze was 9 years ago,they broke then I fixed them,life goes on.

You need freezing temps for 8 hours in order to freeze water in pipes,we have had 2 freezes in 30 years,why am i going to spend time wrapping everything in heat tape and move my water heater into the house.

But at the end of the day it is my house and my responsibility to prepare it for what ever happens,the government did not pay for my house so why would I want to have them regulate it as to what might happen,they already do enough,making sure you spend 1000s so it can survive a cat5 hurricane,a cat5 hurricane will leave nothing standing anyways,but yet ..

Every system we depend on operates on all kinds of switches and dials and valves,some of them have rubber seals in them,if they are not used to it a cold snap makes them brittle and exposes problems that may not have existed.

It is convoluted logic to say,wind mills work perfectly up north generating power,so do engine block heaters in cars,you will not see any in the south.

I have 5 cars n Trucks,heaters never worked in any of them,I am not going to spend $100s fixing them on the off chance that it may get cold enough to use them.

That is the way it works.

Everybody always looking for somebody to blame when things go wrong,that is life, things happen.

Think this is bad what are you guys going to do now that you elected a socialist party,blackouts,rolling blackouts and no power for months on end is just a way of life and not just with a 20 year historical event.

Wait until they start telling you a box of beans and a bag of rice is sufficient to live on.

Besides you guys voted for elimination of natural gas,why fuss about it when it is not there,gotta get used to not having it anyways.

I remember driving through places like Tennessee,Mississippi,Louisiana and other southern states that got hit with ice and snow anomalies,they never even used to have snow plows or de-ice equipment.

Florida does not have any snow plows that I know of anyways,never seen one here,but see lots of snowmobiles for sell from northerners moving down,we have had a dusting of snow twice in 80 years,no point in spending 100s of millions to prepare for the off chance it may snow.

Money is not free in the south like up in the north,when we work for it we like to save it and not spend it on the off chance that something may or may not happen in 20 years,if it does we deal with it and move on.

If I was in Texas right now,unprepared like everybody is,well not everybody because you only hear about the ones not,I would go buy me a little tent and a sleeping bag,some canned goods and go camping in the woods with a toasty campfire and let it all blow over.

**Dumpling** · February-18-21, 02:29 PM

You are absolutely right about money being a factor.

Then there's the Cassandra effect or whatever you would
like to call it. The overview is, there is some disaster that
could happen, even probably will happen eventually, but if
everyone were to spend x amount extra on their regular
fees, bills, and taxes, the fix can be put in. Just name it:
PPE stockpiles in hospitals and nursing homes. Better
levees around New Orleans. Winterized wind turbines in
Texas. More frequent trimming of trees near power lines.
[[Where's Willi? Sewerage upgrades to prevent basement
flooding and washed out expressways from intense
August thunderstorms.)

But without immediate impacts of the disaster, advocates
for the fixes are unpopular both because the fixes are
more money that nobody is getting any reward for
spending, and because they are talking up disasters
that could happen. Way to be the life of the party!
Not.

The vibe in Florida is very relaxed about getting things
done too, especially in comparison to Michigan, the
couple of times I was down there visiting the
grandparents. Which could be a good thing. If
people are living longer because things are happening
at a leisurely pace and they have more health care money
because the money didn't go towards winterizing the grid,
or constructing sea walls around Miami, that could be all
right. Whatever seems best to you.

**Gistok** · February-18-21, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Money is not free in the south like up in the north,when we work for it we like to save it and not spend it on the off chance that something may or may not happen in 20 years,if it does we deal with it and move on.

If I was in Texas right now,unprepared like everybody is,well not everybody because you only hear about the ones not,I would go buy me a little tent and a sleeping bag,some canned goods and go camping in the woods with a toasty campfire and let it all blow over.

Yeah that's it... if it's below freezing inside a cold house... take a tent outside into the woods and start a fire to stay warm [[with the wind chill nipping at you from behind)...

**Richard** · February-18-21, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Yeah that's it... if it's below freezing inside a cold house... take a tent outside into the woods and start a fire to stay warm [[with the wind chill nipping at you from behind)...

sheez you city slickers,you are lost without your lattes and the government telling you when and how you can wipe your,well ummm nose.

In that picture,the hanging pine tree branches in the background would provide a wind break and you could start a little fire,enough to keep you warm without burning the tree down.

How many legos you have ? You cannot build a little lego wall to hunker down behind in the woods?

Next lesson will be what bugs you can safely eat in order to survive without a 7-11 next door

People that say they cannot,will not,those that say they can,will.

Strangely enough before this hit,I had a woman from Houston wanting to buy a snow cone Kiosk from me,I am thinking she is probably not interested in it at this moment,maybe she will be when the cold front moves out and people forget about it when it is warm again,then I have to Jack the price up for the summer as the demand increases.

We are 80 degrees today and I am running my A/C today but by Saturday night it is supposed to be a freezing 45 degrees when I will have to choose between 3 different back up heat source options,or which of the 4 generators I will fire up just in case the power goes out.

Not sure how I will survive yet.

Remember when they said Detroit is going to be under 12’ of water due to climate change?

Do you guys need to be building a 16’ wall around the city in order to save it? If they kick your property taxes up $300 or $400 a year,they could start saving and have it built in 20 years.

Sorry I forgot,you guys do not like walls,I guess you gunna drown.

Cruz was the smart one,he dropped down into Mexico where it was warm and toasty.

They already have memes out with him and Bernie sitting on the beach with Bernie in his mittens.

**Gistok** · February-18-21, 10:08 PM

Well this is Texas... not Florida Richard... your "let them eat cake" flippant attitude will not go over well with a lot of Texans who not only have no heat, but no water either... this affects children and also the elderly... not just Daniel Boone types like yourself.

Your lack of empathy reminds me of the orange one... thank God he's living in your neck of the woods... [[pun intended)...

Also... not everyone in Texas has the means to just hop a jet to Cancun either...

**Richard** · February-19-21, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well this is Texas... not Florida Richard... your "let them eat cake" flippant attitude will not go over well with a lot of Texans who not only have no heat, but no water either... this affects children and also the elderly... not just Daniel Boone types like yourself.

Your lack of empathy reminds me of the orange one... thank God he's living in your neck of the woods... [[pun intended)...

Also... not everyone in Texas has the means to just hop a jet to Cancun either...

Awww you seem to forget Texas is also a hurricane and major flood state,they have been through worse and will survive.

Talk about flippant attitudes,if your neighbor did not have a car to drive you would also get rid of yours?

It’s not me and my attitude,lots of people prepare and know how to survive,they just never show them on the news.

You do not have to be a Daniel Boone to have some personal responsibility and prepare for things.

It is winter up there,do you have a little back up generator in your garage with some gas in case your power goes out and you need something to power your heater?

I am guessing,no.

The airline ticket from Houston to Cancun is $79.

You know,the airlines that make you stand six feet apart when buying your ticket but then cram you into a seat,ass to elbows with everybody else.

I love how you just had to throw in there somewhere,where it is Trumps fault,you guys should just impeach him and get him out of your system.

Oppps sorry,forgot you already tried that - twice - and failed both times.

Maybe it just was not Trump that was the problem,ever think of that?

I will take Trump in my neck of the woods any day over some of your representative screaming banshees that are loud but actually do nothing,at least Trump kept his promises.

**Gistok** · February-19-21, 01:17 AM

Texas top politicians seem to like to shoot off their mouths... and end up shooting themselves in the foot...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/19/polit...som/index.html

**Richard** · February-19-21, 02:37 AM

CNN the purveyor of fake outrage news,or the new national inquirer.

The wholesale cost of electricity in Texas jumped from $50 to $9000 for 1 MW.

Talk about my self serving,people are making millions in energy right now overnight.

Newson needs to go,California will spend this summer like the last with rolling blackouts and major power outages.

But you will not see that in CNN,I wonder why?

The left is mad at DeSantis because he did not bend to their corona virus narrative,he kept the state open,the state had fewer deaths,while having one of the highest at risk population in the country, and the economy kept going until the Dems crashed it so they could take the credit from Trump.

950 people PER DAY are moving into Florida fleeing democrat controlled cities and the violence,high taxes and a hostile business atmosphere.

That is a 342,000 net population gain per year.

Same thing with Texas and Arizona.

The left is pissed of because their tax base is leaving because they could not do what Florida and Texas government could.

Newson is getting kicked out because Californians are tired of everybody and businesses fleeing their state because of crushing democrat policies.

New York residents are fleeing oppression and high taxes and bad policies to Florida and Texas,and that governor,was held as a heroes of the democrat party for killing people across the country because he decided to withhold pertinent information from the feds,while blaming the feds.

So let me sum it up for CNN if I may.

Millions of Americans everyday are fleeing northern democrat controlled states and cities for the southern republican controlled states.

But according to CNN and the democrats,it is the republicans that are screwed up.

I guess that makes sense to somebody,who exactly has yet to be determined.

If you are a democrat governor of a state that is bleeding your tax base to Texas and Florida maybe it is time to stop pointing fingers at every Republican that you see and try and divert attention from your own misgivings.

Honestly Texas and Florida would prefer you get your own democrat house in order as you were elected to do,because you are ruining both Texas and Florida by bringing your screwed up way of thinking with you.

Sprawl and crushing destructive polices did not work up there so you fled them only to bring the exact same things with you here.

They were not good polices there,why think trying to force them on where you move to is going to end up with a different result .

**Meddle** · February-19-21, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well this is ...

It's better to pass by it than feed it. Try not to even gawk at it.

**Zacha341** · February-19-21, 08:23 AM

Things not going so well in Portland either...

Portland cops guard DUMPSTERS as scavengers rummage through mountains of food thrown out after freezers fail: 100,000 Oregonians still have no power...

**jcole** · February-19-21, 09:28 AM

The Ignore feature does work well...

Originally Posted by Meddle

It's better to pass by it than feed it. Try not to even gawk at it.

**Richard** · February-19-21, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Things not going so well in Portland either...

Portland cops guard DUMPSTERS as scavengers rummage through mountains of food thrown out after freezers fail: 100,000 Oregonians still have no power...

Trump reportedly wants $2 trillion to beef up U.S. infrastructure, including bridges, highways and roads, but the Democrats’ letter makes clear their priorities are different from the president’s.

In fact, the letter does not contain any mention of roads, bridges or highways, but instead urges Trump to “go beyond transportation” and include spending for climate change, housing initiatives, public health and “clean energy.”

http://www.truenorthreports.com/pelo...te-change-bill

They did not want to fix the grid,just spend billions more to increase electric car charging stations that will put more demand on an already overloaded system.

The grid managers have been warning for years that the grid is highly susceptible to attack and vulnerable to collapse at any moment.

They seem to forget that even EVs need roads to drive on and electric to charge them so how about fixing the infrastructure that is needed first?

Democrat governor’s campaigned on fixing the roads,but when the opportunity came up to actually do it,they shot it down.

They did do this in July of 2020

WASHINGTON — The Democratic-controlled House approved a $1.5 trillion plan Wednesday to rebuild the nation’s crumbling infrastructure, pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into projects to fix roads and bridges, upgrade transit systems, expand interstate railways and dredge harbors, ports and channels.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...imate%20change.

**Dumpling** · February-19-21, 01:05 PM

If you would like to feel good about your low utility bill from
living in the south, this is so you can see just how much you
are saving on your utilities by not living in Michigan.

The energy provider in Detroit is DTE. According to the bill
for January 2021, my average daily electric cost for the time
period was $4.32. [[It's twice what it was for me this time last
year - there is a little chart showing that I used 10.1 KWH per
day in January 2020 vs. 22.1 KWH in January 2021. There's
a bit more lighting and a new furnace system this year but
I am probably due to break out the Kill-A-Watt meter to verify
that these are the reason for the higher usage.) The little
chart for natural gas usage shows 7.2 CCF this year versus
6.7 CCF last January. The average daily gas cost for January
was $5.74. The total current charges were a bit over $300.
It is for a house that is about 1,000 square feet.

After about 2022 a price increase of about 11% will be added in
to everyone's utility bill.

That certainly may push some Michiganders towards Florida.

But just for today, here there are minimal bugs, the
birds are singing [[to be sure some of them are Canada geese)
and the coal fired plant across the river was fired up this
morning, sending energy onto the grid for everyone
to the south except Texas.

**oladub** · February-19-21, 01:48 PM

Biden's $1.9T Covid bill that has little to do with Covid and much to do with pork already transfers $50B to NY State from poorer but better managed states. This is another $1.5T. Every $1T of federal debt increases the federal debt for the average American family of four by over $12,000.

Our unemployment rate is 6.3%. That isn't so horrible as to spend that much money. My suggestion is to focus on getting everyone their Covid vaccines ASAP. Biden is making some effort to speed this up but part of his effort might be too little too late. As soon as everyone gets their vaccine, we can take off our masks and start catching up with travel, restaurants, and so forth. Doing so will jumpstart the economy and generate more income taxes. We do need some infrastructure improvements but his plan should 1st get everyone vaccinated and calculate how many will be still be unemployed after that before pouring $1.5T on the fire.

In Milwaukee this week, Biden was promising that his proposals will put 7 million Americans back to work. There are presently 10.1 M out of work. I calculated that he is suggesting that he plans to bring unemployment down to 1.93% nationally, an unrealistically low number but the 7M number sounds nice.

**bust** · February-19-21, 02:12 PM

Ever notice how the same ones who say it was antifa who invaded the capitol are now claiming it was green energy, not deregulation, cronyism, and corruption that crippled utility infrastructure in Texas? And voter fraud, so much voter fraud.

Low utility bills in Florida? Can't wait for insurance reform.

**Meddle** · February-19-21, 02:34 PM

They speak with orange tongue.

**oladub** · February-19-21, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by bust

Ever notice how the same ones who say it was antifa who invaded the capitol are now claiming it was green energy, not deregulation, cronyism, and corruption that crippled utility infrastructure in Texas? And voter fraud, so much voter fraud.

Low utility bills in Florida? Can't wait for insurance reform.

Did someone[[ you wrote "same ones" -plural) on this forum say it was antifa who invaded the Capitol or did you make that up?