Charlie Sheen Requests Meeting With Obama Over 9/11 Cover-Up

[ghettopalmetto]

Let's dissect this biography of Richard Gage, AIA. My translations follow the quote.

Richard Gage, AIA, is a San Francisco Bay Area architect and a member of the American Institute of Architects.

Mr. Gage is experienced in designing the layout and appearance of buildings. He has passed the 9-part examination administered by the American Institute of Architects.

He is the founding member of AE911Truth.

I started a running club once. I'm not what you would call an Olympic-caliber marathoner.

He has been a practicing architect for over 20 years and has worked on most types of building construction, including numerous fire-proofed steel-framed buildings.

Mr. Gage has been determining the appearance of buildings for over two decades. Some of these buildings, as one might expect, have been framed with structural steel. Structural steel is required to be protected from fire. Ratings for fire protection assemblies have been empirically determined by UL.

Most recently he worked on the construction documents for a $400M mixed-use urban project with 1.2 million square feet of retail, parking structure, and 320,000 square feet of mid-rise office space—

Draftsmen also worked on the construction documents, as did the summer interns.

altogether about with 1,200 tons of steel framing.

None of which was designed by Mr. Gage, as he is not qualified to do so.

[elganned]

Nope, not a proctologist.

I just wondered, since you seem unusually interested in what I do with my alternate orifice...

As for Randites, Randians, Randonians, or any other name you care to put on them [[by which I mean followers of Ayn Rand's loopy Objectivist political phisosophy) they speak from a profound ignorance of how human societies really work and survive.

Placing the "freedom" [[read: selfishness) of the individual as the paramount virtue ignores the plain fact that indivduals left on their own soon perish without a social context to operate within. Reference Hobbes famous quote concerning man's "natural condition" outside the social contract: "...continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

We are primates, and as such we are social animals; we optimally survive as communities which require cooperation and reciprocity.

I don't know how much anthropology you've studied, but from your scribblings it can't have been much.

In the interest of fairness, I also object to the other extreme as exemplified by Marx, which is that the welfare of the group is the paramount virtue; that is what led to Stalin, Castro, and the like. Totalitarianism in service to either ideal is deadly.

Individualism and socialism are tools, nothing more. One works better in certain circumstances, the other works better in other circumstances. We must and should maintain a balance of the two in order to maintain a stable, just society.

[Gannon]

Even more telling is that not one peer-reviewed trade publication or academic journal in the structural engineering industry has published Gage's report. Not a single one. What does that tell you?

It tells me that they are as afraid of backlash from those who hold the true power as any licensed engineer would be. Same with any professional who has to go through accreditation.

Certainly you'd toe the company line, as long as you kept your livelihood.


I believe that those 800 or so engineers and architects are less afraid to face the whole story...and doubt the official story enough to risk their careers. Gotta respect that, but nah...it is easier to tear someone apart because they don't agree with the official story. Odd how much you put into this, Ghetto.


It is not unlike the limited ownership of news outlets...they control what gets airtime and paper space. Even the head of the Air Force admitted the media is controlled in this country. Why would some industry journal be any different?!


Operation Northwoods PROVES that some deep within Top Secret cover plan dastardly things that regular citizenry cannot fathom.

The events of 9/11/2001 simply show that similar men do those things today.

Even the Pentagon event was staged, don't get me started on that one. There is a picture on the net of men surrounding a scale model of the building with an exact scenario from years earlier. Object that hit it performed a 270-degree downward spiral, and hit exactly where the remodeling was being done. Right. The fellow they say did all that couldn't fly a Cessna 172 with fixed gear, one of the easiest planes to pilot.


Nah, there is a shadow government, and we see merely as much of it as they desire. The rest is hidden...and does some seriously screwed up stuff, often.


Funny how y'all have to resort to personal attacks, ever so obliquely occasionally, most times more obvious. You've got nothing on this one, except to ask us to prove something unprovable, then say you win?


What about FEMA setting up camp in New Jersey the night before?! They were ready, for once. Yeah, it was only a drill.


Sincerely,
John

[jams]

Auditory hallucinations? What evidence is there of that? What about rational objectivist thought is delusional?

Care to explain and substantiate your claim of "Randians" [[whatever that is) speaking from ignorance....I dare you to try.

Nope, not a proctologist.

Anyone wish to fill in the blank?

[UFO]

wow wow

[fazaz]

Sep 11, 2009
Fifty questions on 9/11
By Pepe Escobar
'
It's September 11 all over again - eight years on. The George W Bush administration is out. The global 'war on terror' is still on, renamed 'overseas contingency operations' by the Barack Obama administration. Obama's 'new strategy' - a war escalation - is in play in AfPak. Osama bin Laden may be dead or not. 'Al-Qaeda' remains a catch-all ghost entity. September 11 - the neo-cons 'new Pearl Harbor' - remains the darkest jigsaw puzzle of the young 21st century.

It's useless to expect US corporate media and the ruling elites' political operatives to call for a true, in-depth investigation into the attacks on the US on September 11, 2001. Whitewash has been the norm. But even establishment highlight Dr Zbig 'Grand Chessboard' Brzezinski, a former national security advisor, has admitted to the US Senate that the post-9/11 'war on terror' is a 'mythical historical narrative'.

The following questions, some multi-part - and most totally ignored by the 9/11 Commission - are just the tip of the immense 9/11 iceberg. A hat tip goes to the indefatigable work of 911truth.org; whatreallyhappened.com; architects and engineers for 9/11 truth; the Italian documentary Zero: an investigation into 9/11; and Asia Times Online readers' e-mails.

None of these questions has been convincingly answered - according to the official narrative. It's up to US civil society to keep up the pressure. Eight years after the fact, one fundamental conclusion is imperative. The official narrative edifice of 9/11 is simply not acceptable.

Fifty questions
1) How come dead or not dead Osama bin Laden has not been formally indicted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation [[FBI) as responsible for 9/11? Is it because the US government - as acknowledged by the FBI itself - has not produced a single conclusive piece of evidence?

2) How could all the alleged 19 razor-blade box cutter-equipped Muslim perpetrators have been identified in less than 72 hours - without even a crime scene investigation?

3) How come none of the 19's names appeared on the passenger lists released the same day by both United Airlines and American Airlines?

4) How come eight names on the 'original' FBI list happened to be found alive and living in different countries?

5) Why would pious jihadi Mohammed Atta leave a how-to-fly video manual, a uniform and his last will inside his bag knowing he was on a suicide mission?

6) Why did Mohammed Atta study flight simulation at Opa Locka, a hub of no less than six US Navy training bases?

7) How could Mohammed Atta's passport have been magically found buried among the Word Trade Center [[WTC)'s debris when not a single flight recorder was found?

8) Who is in the possession of the 'disappeared' eight indestructible black boxes on those four flights?

9) Considering multiple international red alerts about a possible terrorist attack inside the US - including former secretary of state Condoleezza Rice's infamous August 6, 2001, memo - how come four hijacked planes deviating from their computerized flight paths and disappearing from radar are allowed to fly around US airspace for more than an hour and a half - not to mention disabling all the elaborate Pentagon's defense systems in the process?

10) Why the secretary of the US Air Force James Roche did not try to intercept both planes hitting the WTC [[only seven minutes away from McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey) as well as the Pentagon [[only 10 minutes away from McGuire)? Roche had no less than 75 minutes to respond to the plane hitting the Pentagon. 11) Why did George W Bush continue to recite 'My Pet Goat' in his Florida school and was not instantly absconded by the secret service?

12) How could Bush have seen the first plane crashing on WTC live - as he admitted? Did he have previous knowledge - or is he psychic?

13) Bush said that he and Andrew Card initially thought the first hit on the WTC was an accident with a small plane. How is that possible when the FAA as well as NORAD already knew this was about a hijacked plane?

14) What are the odds of transponders in four different planes be turned off almost simultaneously, in the same geographical area, very close to the nation's seat of power in Washington, and no one scrambles to contact the Pentagon or the media?

15) Could defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld explain why initial media reports said that there were no fighter jets available at Andrews Air Force Base and then change the reports that there were, but not on high alert?

16) Why was the DC Air National Guard in Washington AWOL on 9/11?

17) Why did combat jet fighters of the 305th Air Wing, McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey not intercept the second hijacked plane hitting the WTC, when they could have done it within seven minutes?

18) Why did none of the combat jet fighters of the 459th Aircraft Squadron at Andrews Air Force Base intercept the plane that hit the Pentagon, only 16 kilometers away? And since we're at it, why the Pentagon did not release the full video of the hit?

19) A number of very experienced airline pilots - including US ally Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, a former fighter jet pilot - revealed that, well, only crack pilots could have performed such complex maneuvers on the hijacked jets, while others insisted they could only have been accomplished by remote control. Is it remotely believable that the hijackers were up to the task?

20) How come a substantial number of witnesses did swear seeing and hearing multiple explosions in both towers of the WTC?

21) How come a substantial number of reputed architects and engineers are adamant that the official narrative simply does not explain the largest structural collapse in recorded history [[the Twin Towers) as well as the collapse of WTC building 7, which was not even hit by a jet?

22) According to Frank de Martini, WTC's construction manager, 'We designed the building to resist the impact of one or more jetliners.' The second plane nearly missed tower 1; most of the fuel burned in an explosion outside the tower. Yet this tower collapsed first, long before tower 2 that was 'perforated'' by the first hit. Jet fuel burned up fast - and by far did not reach the 2000-degree heat necessary to hurt the six tubular steel columns in the center of the tower - designed specifically to keep the towers from collapsing even if hit by a Boeing 707. A Boeing 707 used to carry more fuel than the Boeing 757 and Boeing 767 that actually hit the towers.

23) Why did Mayor Rudolph Giuliani instantly authorized the shipment of WTC rubble to China and India for recycling?

further reading - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KI11Ak02.html

Sheen's list of 20 unanswered questions [[linked at the beginning of this thread) does not even repeat this list.

[ccbatson]

Common things occur commonly....when was the last time the US was attacked on our own soil [[Pearl Harbor), by an enemy with whom we were not at war, nor approaching it [[never). Of course we were asleep at the wheel.

[ZRX Doug]

This is without a doubt the biggest load of bullshit..I have friends who were working at the Pentagon the morning of 9/11..nothing would make me happier than to give Mr. Sheen five minutes alone with one of them. This guy has spent the last eight years trying to hold his life together after watching his co-workers die in flames. He was a witness to the airliner strike of the building, nothing makes his grim life brighter than the opportunity to "educate" a non-believer.
If Mr. Sheen is still alive and capable of speaking after five minutes with my buddy, I would suggest he spend the remainder of his short and pathetic life on his knees apologizing to this country.
As for the rest of you conspiracy theorist nut-jobs..you really need to pull your heads out..the lack of oxygen is showing.
I truly expected better of you, Gannon..
Fucking pathetic..

[Gannon]

Doug,

Your friends actually witnessed the object before it hit the building?

Or did they see the aftermath?


The threat of violence is interesting.


I dunno why this should be a surprise to you, I have never been shy about discussing this whole thing. Someone put one of my posts on fucking YouTube.


Sorry for the unmet expectations. Sorrier that your friends lost people they know in this, and worse that they have not healed in eight years.

I daresay their [[and perhaps also your) anger is misplaced, directing it at those who merely question rather than those who did the deed. We are not evil, nor enemies of the state, we all simply want to know what happened...and the government has never been forthcoming, they've been as obtuse as possible...and their official explanation [[which is the crux of the matter) is so weak it begs these honest inquiries.


Yes, I will say that to their face, and will appreciate any reaction from them.


ONE release of the videos shot that day would eliminate any doubt from those who question the Pentagon portion of this quandry. It is not a difficult thing, the FBI has all of them.


Sincerely,
John

[ZRX Doug]

As far as I'm aware, there are no friggin' videos. My friend did not witness the aircraft strike, but he was instrumental in the search & rescue which immediately followed. This includes being on-site for the removal of the aircraft debris over the following weeks..my pal is no fool, he knows what the remains of an aircraft look like.
FWIW, there was also eye-witness verification of the crash..the plane passed so low over the freeway that one of the ladies he works with thought it was going to graze the roof of her car..I never spoke with this woman, but if my bud says it's so, it is.

Make no mistake, it's not a threat of violence, G..it's a promise. If Mr. Sheen ever makes the mistake of showing his face near any of the Pentagon folks I know, it will be a bad day for him..
Put yourself in their shoes..they are tasked with defending this nation, they were brutally attacked by terrorists, and their fellow citizens wish to make up fairy tales about their suffering and play conspiracy games, and some low-life scum from Hollywood wishes to grab his slice of fame on the eighth anniversary of the attack..dunno about you, but it'd make me want to rip some folks a new asshole as well.

This guy is a friend who I have [[literally) trusted with my life, and vice-versa..when you play with 160 horsepower sportbikes in remote mountains, you have to trust your wingman. I suppose you can feel he could have lied..but I see no profit in it for him, unlike the motives of the conspiracy theorists..

I feel for ya..but the answers to all of your questions are readily available on the web, and the majority of the questions posted here were originally posed by "authors" who are deeply vested in the profits which this "conspiracy" produces for them.

[[Edit)
Here's a bit of my bud's story from that day. I culled it from our mutual stomping grounds at ZRXOA.org, the motrocycle site I [[among others) moderate..he ends up getting to re-post this experience every September when some asshole cries "conspiracy."

Here ya go..in Jonnie's words:
When I was still on Active Duty, I went to and from work in civilian clothes and changed into uniform at my office. Then, as now, I rode to work almost every day. I ride in dressed to ride, then change into appropriate clothes at work. I had my uniforms cleaned and pressed at the Pentagon Dry Cleaners.

On Sep 11, 2001 I found a pretty bad diagonal crease in the back of my BDU shirt when I took it out of the dry cleaning bag. It must have been wet with starch when they put it on the hanger.

I decided to go look for an iron at CVS. I went down, and they did not sell them. They said it was because of the electrical load on the old Pentagon wiring. I did find a can of starch. I figured I could lay the shirt on the fan and wet it down with the starch. That way it would dry again, but without the wrinkle.

I was walking back up the stairs with the can in my hand. At the top of the 5th Floor stairway, there was a woman who looked lost. She had on a Blue Visitor badge. That means she has access to the building, but does not have her own badge. Sometimes it just means you forgot your badge, but it is also how new folks look.

She was looking at a map … clearly she was lost. I asked her where she was trying to find. She named some kind of OPNAV office … but that is like the HAF … we have offices all over the place. I asked her if you had a room number. She did, so we headed that way.

It was [[and is) our policy to take lost people where they are going … not to just give a bunch of directions that they probably can’t follow anyways.

As we were walking I was explaining how the room numbers were like address laid out fairly simply. If you know the room number, you can find it. It was her first day in the Pentagon. I got her to an outer door with a phone and headed back to my office.

When I got there, they were all watching the attack on TV. Twenty minutes later, the plane hit our building.

It hit just below that woman’s office. After that part of the building collapsed, you could see some of the safe for storing classified files, right on the edge.

She was right in there when it hit. She was cooked with her new office mates by the burning fuel immediately after the impact.

The last thing I said to her was "Welcome to the Pentagon".

---------------------------------

Yes, I take the conspiracy crap personally.

Yes, I am offended. More than I could ever express.

[Gannon]

Again, this conversation is not meant to inflame emotion...although I know that is difficult for some and impossible for most...but I intend never to wound another.

Picking at wounds unhealed, either, but this is way too important to ignore.


There WERE at least two security videos that were confiscated directly after the crash, as if the FBI already knew where they were [[AND they were ready for this 'accident'). One is a direct line with the flight path of the craft.

You know this place is COVERED in the highest definition security cameras our money could buy, too.


Please look directly at your extreme reaction to this, because it may reveal a deeper issue.


Why the anger at those who doubt? Why, especially, against those who lost loved ones...hell, offense is a tough reaction, indeed.



Lashing out at an individual who presses for answers is illogical to the extreme, especialy when they have their honest and pure motivations. We are not doing this for fun...quite the opposite, actually.


Sincerely,
John

[ccbatson]

Don't get offended, keep in mind that delusions and paranoia is often a mental illness, it is definitely not rational thought. These folks are not well and they are not malicious, they are not capable of understanding.

[Gannon]

Cc, aren't you a bit FAR from your area of expertise here?

I'm not sure you are qualified to discuss anyone's psychology...

[Patrick]

Can someone please tell us WHY the government wanted to take down the towers and bust up the Pentagon? If this was an inside job...tell us why. I don't want to read a 700 page obscure gov report found in the corner of the net.

[ghettopalmetto]

It tells me that they are as afraid of backlash from those who hold the true power as any licensed engineer would be. Same with any professional who has to go through accreditation.

Certainly you'd toe the company line, as long as you kept your livelihood.

What in the hell are you talking about? Licensed engineers publish in peer-reviewed publications all the time. Publication is one means of enhancing one's CV, i.e. credibility. This includes the NIST report, which has been reviewed by licensed engineers across the country. Show me one licensed professional engineer that has peer-reviewed Richard Gage's report and deemed it credible.

You're really grasping for excuses, without a shred of evidence on your behalf. I'm amazed that you're so willing to believe a bunch of nutbags over people who actually know what they're talking about. Doesn't speak too highly of your cerebral integrity, sir.

[elganned]

Can someone please tell us WHY the government wanted to take down the towers and bust up the Pentagon? If this was an inside job...tell us why. I don't want to read a 700 page obscure gov report found in the corner of the net.

The usual explanation is that it was a "Pearl Harbor" event calculated to marshall the country behind emergency "war" measures restricting domestic freedoms and allowing Bush/Cheney to justify invading Iraq.

I'm not saying I give credence to the idea, just that that is the usual reason I've heard from the people who believe it was an inside job.

[Gannon]

Ghetto,

I was saying specifically that BECAUSE raising doubts could endanger one's career, and end up causing a person to LOSE their license and accreditation, then few are willing to step up to the plate and voice their concerns publicly.

You don't get it.

If the government can control the general media...and they have been quoted saying clearly that they can and do...then it is EASY to keep things from something as simple as an industry professional journal.

All it takes is ONE person at the helm choosing what gets print space or not.


How hard is that to understand?!


When everyone within the military is trained from day one to look the other way when things are happening beyond their pay grade...and to always, always follow orders [[Geneva convention notwithstanding) no matter what...then it becomes not only possible but PROBABLE that wrong-headed shit could be done and hidden.


False Flag Operations have been around since Armies carried flags leading them into battle...that is where the term came from. Again, stop with the silly-ass bashing of my intelligence...when YOU are the one who cannot understand.


Patrick, same with you...you obviously haven't read the text of the Operation Northwoods documents. It is simple Stimulus/Reaction with herds. Or as another has put it, Problem/Reaction/Solution, I believe. Create a crisis, then send the herd running away so fast they refuse to LOOK back at what caused them to fear. [[then WHILE they are stuck in this mode, rush through legislation that 'solves' the manufactured crisis with a law that would NEVER have passed without citizen inaction, or better yet any opposition screamed down with inanities and worse!)


Anyone who doubts that men are capable of doing evil deeds to further their agenda is deluded at best...and 9/11 was simply a False Flag Operation to get the populace behind something they would ordinarily avoid...going to war.

It has happened in nearly EVERY conflict...time-out-of-mind.


Name the war, I can probably name the False Flag stimulus that raised the citizenry to sacrifice itself for the gain of its leaders.

There HAS TO BE some false trigger, because most people are not war-mongers. Dying for a cause greater than yourself is against personal survival...the most basic of mere human motivations.


Read up on Operation Northwoods to learn how, back in 1962, evil dudes in the Pentagon schemed in a way that is EERILY similar to what was played out on 9/11/2001. Death of a few is justified by the ends desired by those means...war that profits a few VERY evil men.


You will find Bush/Walkers in the center of every war fought by the United States going back to the mid-1800s. That is not imaginary. It is fact. Ugly truth.

And we've had ONE president who was a protege of Prescott Bush...Richard Nixon...who was one of the most enigmatic beings to ever stink up the office...then less than a decade later, Prescott's SON and the previous head of the CIA in the Caribbean Sea...leader of the Cuban invasion known as the Bay of Pigs and possible point man on the JFK assassination...is President himself.

Then HIS son...the bozo puppet manipulated by Dick Cheney and the whole of the Neo-Cons brought together under Professor Leo Strauss of the University of Chicago...gave us the mess we endure today.

Every piece of trouble the current President must handle was created in the past eight years of garbage Execute office power grabs and abuses.

I suspect that President Obama is part of the whole scheme, too, or is unable or unwilling to make it stop. He knows what they did to JFK when HE tried to derail their gravy train. Everybody knows.


So, open your eyes and follow the whole picture...we are in a place in history where the warnings of Eric Blair have finally come to reality. Twenty years after the title of his book...but the EXACT scenario overall.


Sincerely,
John

[Ravine]

Gannon, I am curious about one point in your post.

Why do you insist on referring to a person by using his birth name, when he is very widely known by his pen name and not usually recognized by his birth name?

[Meddle]

Gannon said something?

[Gannon]

Ravine,

Simply because the reaction to the name George Orwell has become knee-jerk, probably from many of us being FORCED to read 1984 as a task in Junior High.

If anyone dares look it up, then they know what I'm saying. You will notice the obtuse description of the book name, as well, no doubt.


I do not suffer idiocy well, and this is my [[lame) attempt at getting folks' synapses fired up. It is the best I can do.


People do not understand how their early training and habits cause patterns of thinking...or rather reacting WITHOUT thinking...yet some would argue to a fist-fight that they have considered a thing when clearly they are in reflex.


With all my verbosity, one might imagine I enjoy all of this. I do not. It is an exercise I would much rather avoid, but for whatever reason I cannot.


I am even aware that someday these conversations may be used against me, and when encountering individuals like Doug's friend may even cause me direct pain. I am not in a rush for that, either!


Cheers on a Sunday Morning, it looks to be a beautiful day, even when meddlers are about mucking up the scenery.


Sincerely,
John

[Gannon]

Ravine,

I am always amazed at the number of people whose immediate response to my inquiry of if they've read George Orwell's 1984 is, "SURE! I read that AND made the report, I don't need to do so again!"

As IF their understanding as children was complete.


I revisit books and movies often, because after learning other things the often complex topics from the earlier sources sinks deeper into my psyche on the revisit...I understand them much deeper as my overall knowledge base increases.

I cannot be alone in this, everyone must understand things more as they learn and grow, yet it is human nature to think that once a thing is done it neededn't be done again.


That is stagnation, something I abhor. Not unlike so many people taking their sheepskins and considering them license to STOP learning. Such is the failure of the schooling system, which seems to seek to program citizen behavior rather than educate...especially not teaching critical thinking! [[that, it seems, is MISbehavior in this common age, one of the tenets of 1984 that I fully believe is in operation today!)


Cheers

[ghettopalmetto]

Ghetto,

I was saying specifically that BECAUSE raising doubts could endanger one's career, and end up causing a person to LOSE their license and accreditation, then few are willing to step up to the plate and voice their concerns publicly.

Raising doubts does not endanger one's licensure unless said opinion is expressed without conducting due diligence and providing rationale, based on engineering education and experience, for such opinion. Every licensed professional is entitled to a professional opinion, but that opinion must be rooted in FACT.

According to you, professionals who have sworn to uphold public safety are playing politics because they're scared of the government. You should report those people to their respective state licensing boards, then, so they may be stripped of their licensure.

[Gannon]

You may be a great engineer. Of that there seems little doubt.


But your grasp on mere human psychology and motivation is sorely lacking.


Yes, there is silence from those who were allowed to be 'behind the wall'.


Who amongst them questioned the pools of MOLTEN STEEL that remained for days and days in the rubble pile?!

That fact alone reveals the use of steel cutting explosives. There is NO OTHER mechanism that would create that much heat. Friction from your pancake theory does not even come close, nor does any simple building material fire...or even jet fuel or contained heating fuel in the buildings.


Those allowed behind the wall KNEW they had specific clearance to be there. NO documentation in the form of photography or other investigative tools was allowed outside a 'need to know' basis.

If you dare doubt or question, any future form of clearance will be disallowed. Persist, and the consequence could be more dire, the worse the higher the acknowledged position of authority.

The scream-down from over-emotional people, like many in this thread if not all, is almost deafening...even eight years hence.


Cheers anyways, I've got to get to work...

[ghettopalmetto]

You may be a great engineer. Of that there seems little doubt.


But your grasp on mere human psychology and motivation is sorely lacking.


Yes, there is silence from those who were allowed to be 'behind the wall'.


Who amongst them questioned the pools of MOLTEN STEEL that remained for days and days in the rubble pile?!

That fact alone reveals the use of steel cutting explosives. There is NO OTHER mechanism that would create that much heat. Friction from your pancake theory does not even come close, nor does any simple building material fire...or even jet fuel or contained heating fuel in the buildings.


Those allowed behind the wall KNEW they had specific clearance to be there. NO documentation in the form of photography or other investigative tools was allowed outside a 'need to know' basis.

If you dare doubt or question, any future form of clearance will be disallowed. Persist, and the consequence could be more dire, the worse the higher the acknowledged position of authority.

The scream-down from over-emotional people, like many in this thread if not all, is almost deafening...even eight years hence.


Cheers anyways, I've got to get to work...

The steel was molten? That's news. Did you observe this first-hand, or do you have another source of information for this? The melting point of structural steel is somewhere just north of 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. If, in fact, what you say is true, what kind of explosion could be sustained long enough to heat tons of steel to this temperature?

"Pancake", or shear, failures, have nothing to do with friction. A shear failure is simply the development of a failure plane due to the inability of the material to resist the load placed upon it.

[Gannon]

The reports of molten steel are as old as the event itself.

Here is the first thing that I found on a Google search. Do you know how to use Google?


Worker's boots were melting...and portions of the pile were off-limits because of the extreme heat.

Yes, this is an issue, and YES it was erased from standard news service reporting. When it was attempted to be reported by those who dared to speak out, they were quashed. ANY form of non-official story questioning is repeatedly screamed down by reactionary individuals.


Smoking guns...they abound, but most refuse to look at them. Please refer to my explanation of the problem/reaction/solution programming of herds. You are still stuck in the herd.


Cheers, back to work...thanks for the reply. When things ARE pancaking, there is friction due the materials being forced upon each other...I didn't say it was the cause. It would be 100% friction as the one layer appeared upon the other, continuing the reaction...for that one instant before the next layer gave way.

Dynamic...yeah. I propose that BOTH explosives then the pancaking were necessary, but the thermite and thermate were the catalyst, not jet fuel burning in an open-air situation.