Civilization and its Discontents

**Henry Whalley** · January-10-21, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

...I believe the same thing happened in Germany around 1933.

Göring's commentary[edit]

Göring [[first row, far left) at the Nuremberg trials

In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer wrote that at the Nuremberg Trials, General Franz Halder stated in an affidavit that Hermann Göring had boasted about setting the fire: "On the occasion of a lunch on the Führer's birthday in 1943, the people around the Führer turned the conversation to the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears how Göring broke into the conversation and shouted: 'The only one who really knows about the Reichstag building is I, for I set fire to it.' And saying this he slapped his thigh".^[47] Under cross-examination at the Nuremberg trial in 1945 and 1946, Halder's affidavit was read to Göring, who denied any involvement in the fire.^[48]^:433

**EastsideAl** · January-11-21, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

I agree people get a little touchy when CISA stands up spreading seditious lies about this being the most secure election in the history of the United States.

Reaching that decision with a panel of the voting machine builders and big tech,a cyber security force tasked with preventing cyber security attacks,while under a cyber security attack without even knowing it.

I guess in the end it boils down to whose lies one chooses to believe.

If you honestly believe that because the people that have the most to gain are actually going to stand up and say,yea okay oops.

I heard the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale.

Richard, those are lies and you have been lied to. Like Mitt Romney said a few days ago, your leaders needed to just tell you the truth, but they failed to do that because constantly telling the lies was in their self-interest. Even after 50 state legislatures, most of them controlled by Republicans, certified their votes, they kept lying. Even after 60 federal judges, several of them appointed by Trump himself, ruled against them, and the entire Supreme Court ruled against them, they kept lying. Now they have fomented an insurrection to try to stop Congress, including the majority Republican Senate, from officially confirming the truth rather than their lies. I know you badly wanted Donald Trump to win the recent election, but he lost it, and that is just the truth and not a lie.

**EastsideAl** · January-11-21, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Yes, attending a support rally for the political party of your choice, certainly warrants threats of bodily injury, and death, to you, your loved ones, your employees, your livelihood, and your domicile. I believe the same thing happened in Germany around 1933. Perhaps mandate all Republicans must wear white armbands with a blue letter "R" stitched in the center so they're easily identifiable?

To be clear, I don't support threats of bodily injury and death against anyone peaceful. That includes the Congress people of the Republican party that Republican Rep. Meijer said voted for the overthrow of the election because they and their families were being threatened and they felt endangered by the right-wing mobs [[although they are still responsible for how they voted).

That was not any ol' regular support rally on Wednesday. It was, after over 2 months of getting nowhere trying to legally press his false case, Trump's last desperate attempt to overturn the legal result of the presidential election by any means necessary. Those means included sending a violent mob to surround and invade the Capitol of the U.S. in order to try to stop Congress from performing their constitutionally mandated duties.

This did indeed bear a certain resemblance to historical events in Germany. I would say that it was a little more like the Nazis' pretty inept Beer Hall Putsch coup attempt of 1923. But as you seem to know something about that history, I will assume you know where that lead by your cited year of 1933. I won't even dignify the ridiculous armband joke with a response, except to say that that's an odd image to pick for a party whose supporters have marched while chanting "Jews will not replace us" and who choose to wear "Camp Auschwitz" shirts to a "support rally" for the political party of their choice.

**Henry Whalley** · January-11-21, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

...Trump's last desperate attempt to overturn the legal result of the presidential election by any means necessary.

Maybe not the last, he may try for another coup during the inauguration as he’ll be in charge of security.

**Meddle** · January-11-21, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I fail to see ...

We've seen that.

**Richard** · January-11-21, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Richard, those are lies and you have been lied to. Like Mitt Romney said a few days ago, your leaders needed to just tell you the truth, but they failed to do that because constantly telling the lies was in their self-interest. Even after 50 state legislatures, most of them controlled by Republicans, certified their votes, they kept lying. Even after 60 federal judges, several of them appointed by Trump himself, ruled against them, and the entire Supreme Court ruled against them, they kept lying. Now they have fomented an insurrection to try to stop Congress, including the majority Republican Senate, from officially confirming the truth rather than their lies. I know you badly wanted Donald Trump to win the recent election, but he lost it, and that is just the truth and not a lie.

You were lied to,you just do not want to except it.

The so-called “fact checkers” of Big Media, along with anti-Trump Democrats and Never Trump Republicans, immediately and repeatedly cited Chris Krebs as the ultimate authority on the integrity of the elections, thus supposedly canceling out Trump’s claims of skullduggery.

Krebs’ agency issued a statement calling the November 3 election “the most secure in American history.” “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised,” the statement continued.

CISA statement went on to declare: “While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too.

President Trump fired Krebs on November, and with good reason. First of all, as pointed out by TheFederalist.com, neither Krebs nor anyone else at CISA have any authority or competency to address the issue of election fraud. CISA is a new agency underneath the Department of Homeland Security [[DHS), created two years ago by an act of Congress that was signed by President Trump on November 16, 2018.

“Election fraud is different than election interference and is beyond the scope of CISA authorities,” a DHS official told The Federalist. “CISA does not have firsthand information on allegations of voting fraud or investigate such claims, responsibility for which lies with State and local authorities and the Department of Justice.”

Each state is responsible for the execution of its own elections. Not CISA and not the federal government,” the DHS official said. “Allegations of voter fraud are being adjudicated through the court system.”

Krebs’ assertion that “I never claimed there wasn’t fraud in the election” flies in the face of his CISA statement quoted earlier and his subsequent statements that have been used by the media and Trump critics to “prove” that election-fraud charges are Trump fantasies.

https://thenewamerican.com/media-darling-and-fired-cyber-security-chief-chris-krebs-is-a-deep-state-operative/

Just like with the 17 intelligence agencies,that no body could ever identify that claimed there was Russian collusion.

You guys are constantly being lied to then you use it to bolster hate.

**Henry Whalley** · January-12-21, 02:04 AM

Qanon Shaman wants an organic diet in jail like his mommy makes for him at home. He better get used a putrid diet with maggots and prison-style coffee.

**Gistok** · January-12-21, 04:31 AM

Well for all the "deniers" that don't think it was the MAGA folks breaking into the Capitol last week [[Fox, Newsmax and AON are claiming that Antifa folks were bussed in).... they're gonna have some 'splainin' to do... [[see attachment)...

P.S. So far the FBI has received 40,000 tips from Capitol videos shown on newscasts.

**Henry Whalley** · January-12-21, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

... they're gonna have some 'splainin' to do... [[see attachment)...

Coming soon. Detroiters you didn’t know were boogerloonies.

**Wheels** · January-12-21, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by bust

Nor did many of them even occur at all.

What planet do you live on?

**Wheels** · January-12-21, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

Göring's commentary[edit]

Göring [[first row, far left) at the Nuremberg trials

In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer wrote that at the Nuremberg Trials, General Franz Halder stated in an affidavit that Hermann Göring had boasted about setting the fire: "On the occasion of a lunch on the Führer's birthday in 1943, the people around the Führer turned the conversation to the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears how Göring broke into the conversation and shouted: 'The only one who really knows about the Reichstag building is I, for I set fire to it.' And saying this he slapped his thigh".^[47] Under cross-examination at the Nuremberg trial in 1945 and 1946, Halder's affidavit was read to Göring, who denied any involvement in the fire.^[48]^:433

Do you really want to go down that road?

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**Zacha341** · January-12-21, 10:00 AM

^ Yes, we saw this clearly with the socialist communists of the time [[and still today). Funny that's always forgotten when in point of fact [[and history) more were starved and killed under communism.

[[AND NO, I am not justifying, or endorsing Hitler or Trump in pointing this out.)

**Zacha341** · January-12-21, 10:13 AM

Hah! Increasingly more than a few Detroiters are feeling like political orphans as we cannot really be fully endulgent to either party [[Malcolm X distinctly spoke of this). We know that we can be captive audience and blamed by everyone if the mess really hits the fan... As we will fall out of the 'protected' group hierarchy when we don't act right...

.....

Despite words and promises to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

Coming soon. Detroiters you didn’t know were boogerloonies.

**Richard** · January-12-21, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well for all the "deniers" that don't think it was the MAGA folks breaking into the Capitol last week [[Fox, Newsmax and AON are claiming that Antifa folks were bussed in).... they're gonna have some 'splainin' to do... [[see attachment)...

P.S. So far the FBI has received 40,000 tips from Capitol videos shown on newscasts.

If that was true then the FBI would not be needing help identifying everybody,would they?

If it was true it would be a secure system that would not allow others to connect to it let alone log their identity numbers,it would kinda defeat the purpose.

They could self identify as democrats or Antifa and utilize the get out of jail fund set up by Kamala Harris.

What were those famous words?

It is only material items,buildings can be replaced,people need to be able to vent their frustrations.

**Zacha341** · January-12-21, 10:17 AM

^ I'm just glad I did not 'walk' within two miles of this thing... you look up and you're on someone's cancel list.

**Richard** · January-12-21, 10:41 AM

^ yep facial recognition in full force,and it was not long ago the outrage about all of the mysterious little cell grabbers popping up.

I bet they will enjoy there use now.

To me that building lost its meaning and representativeness long ago,if it had not,there would have been no need to elect President Trump and our cities would not be in the condition that they are.

If the ones within it actually did what they supposed to be doing,it would then once again be an institution of the people,as it stands now it is just a fancy meeting place for people playing power brokers.

**Gistok** · January-12-21, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

To me that building lost its meaning and representativeness long ago,if it had not,there would have been no need to elect President Trump and our cities would not be in the condition that they are.

Funny that... I'm sure Hitler had the same mindset when his minions set the Reichstag on fire. And since the Capitol hasn't been breached [[even during the Civil War) since 1814 by the British... "red coat" seems an appropriate label for you....

Also, even New York improved under Giuliani during his tenure.

I don't see any major project that Trump did in his 4 years in office to help cities in the least... oh wait... that's right... they didn't vote for him, so he really didn't give a rats ass about cities.

**Richard** · January-12-21, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Funny that... I'm sure Hitler had the same mindset when his minions set the Reichstag on fire. And since the Capitol hasn't been breached [[even during the Civil War) since 1814 by the British... "red coat" seems an appropriate label for you....

Also, even New York improved under Giuliani during his tenure.

I don't see any major project that Trump did in his 4 years in office to help cities in the least... oh wait... that's right... they didn't vote for him, so he really didn't give a rats ass about cities.

Why keep repeating the capital has not been breached sense 1814?

Conveniently forgetting that during the Kavanaugh hearings,it was breached and they flooded the floor with people in protest and the hearings had to be stopped.

Thousands of liberal protesters, fired up by Massachusetts Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren, marched up Capitol Hill on Thursday to protest Brett Kavanaugh’s nomination to the Supreme Court and put pressure on the handful of undecided senators who will determine whether Kavanaugh gets confirmed in the coming days.

In all, some 302 protesters were arrested and charged with unlawfully demonstrating in Senate office buildings Thursday, police said.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kav...-supreme-court

We were planning to shut down the Capitol Building but the authorities were so scared of this #WomensWave that they shut it down for us. 1000+ women, survivors, and allies have gathered in the Hart Senate Building. Every hallway. Every floor," they tweeted.

You do not see anything that Trump has accomplished in the last 4 years because you cannot see through blind hate and your choice of media chose to show you what they wanted you to see.

I already posted one example where Tampa a blue city that hates Trump just as much as you do,received 53 million for skills training and advanced skills training.

That helped a lot of people to better their life and advance their opportunities.

There was one city near Detroit that applied and received those funds,but my guess is you do not even know what city it was.

There were plenty of other cities across the country that also excepted those funds even though they could not stand who was in office.

They understand that it makes zero sense to throw your city under the bus for years just for the sake of letting the world you know how much you hate somebody.

It was not Trumps responsibility to help cities,it was his responsibility to provide the opportunity and funding for cities to help themselves,the cities and states that choose hate missed that opportunity and that is on them and they are the ones to blame for lost opportunity and not the person that tried to help them beyond party partisanship.

I noticed nobody wanted to charge Elizabeth Warren and the others with committing insurection.

There are plenty of people that hate their boss,but they still collect that check at the end of the week.

Honestly what was more productive for your city,the ability to stand up and yell impeach the MFR and resist or collect the check?

I do not care if you are a blue city,the weaker you are the weaker we are as a country,but sometimes you have to be seriously looking at if the ones that are representing you are actually doing that,outside of pandering in order to retain power.

It is very simple,you claim funds were approved based on partisanship or party lines,then you need to ask your representatives to show you were the COD applied for those funds and were denied.

Go ahead ask Talib to show you that,she was your representative in hate but you really need to know if she is your representative as a city.

My guess is she was willing to sacrifice a city of 600,000 in order to send that message of hate and the theatrics of excepting the funds would have been viewed as bowing to Trump.

She got her check,Detroit did not,who really paid the price?

He also ratified a trade deal that Biden signed off on that was instrumental in helping to destroy the manufacturing base in Michigan and the COD,so how is creating a even playing field for an entire state and city that derives a majority of its income based on manufacturing,considered a partisan issue?

**Wheels** · January-12-21, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Funny that... I'm sure Hitler had the same mindset when his minions set the Reichstag on fire. And since the Capitol hasn't been breached [[even during the Civil War) since 1814 by the British... "red coat" seems an appropriate label for you....

Also, even New York improved under Giuliani during his tenure.

I don't see any major project that Trump did in his 4 years in office to help cities in the least... oh wait... that's right... they didn't vote for him, so he really didn't give a rats ass about cities.

Quit beating the dead horse hitler bullshit! The left is on que with all of nazi agenda all they needed was censorship! Oh look they are going for that next!

**Gistok** · January-12-21, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Wheels

Quit beating the dead horse hitler bullshit! The left is on que with all of nazi agenda all they needed was censorship! Oh look they are going for that next!

I'm sorry, but I don't give a rats ass what pleases you....

My late parents lived thru the horrors of Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940 living there as teenagers, so I take umbrage when the right wing media talks about [[and trivializes) the horrors of what happened there.

If you don't like it... all I can say is "that's nice"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luzmz9lUeiM

**Gistok** · January-12-21, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Why keep repeating the capital has not been breached sense 1814?

Conveniently forgetting that during the Kavanaugh hearings,it was breached and they flooded the floor with people in protest and the hearings had to be stopped.

Well you conveniently left out when the House Intelligence Impeachment Committee was also breached by non-members of the committee... but that probably fell under your radar.

When I use the term breached... I am referring to DAMAGE... both the War of 1812 and the 2021 insurrection damaged the building. I'm not talking about the piddley shit you are. I'm sure that demonstrators have gotten into the building many times in the period between 1814 and 2021... but not as life threatening and building damaging moments. Now that wasn't so hard to figure out...

**Wheels** · January-12-21, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I'm sorry, but I don't give a rats ass what pleases you....

My late parents lived thru the horrors of Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940 living there as teenagers, so I take umbrage when the right wing media talks about [[and trivializes) the horrors of what happened there.

If you don't like it... all I can say is "that's nice"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luzmz9lUeiM

This isn’t about my feelings and i dam sure not condoning what the nazis did!!!!

If you can’t see the politics of the left are mirroring the same tactics of the nazi party you have on blinders and will be sorry when their ultimate plan plays out!

**Gistok** · January-12-21, 05:18 PM

Just found this out....

Hundreds are already under investigation, because their phones were targeted by the data computer in the Capitol, the minute they entered the building , their phone was IDed and registered with their name, home address, the whole enchilada!!.... DOJ just announced that sedition & conspiracy charges are already charged up to these thugs, and they are on the NO FLY list with every airline.

**jcole** · January-12-21, 05:29 PM

From what I read this morning, the Capitol building has it's own cell tower/system in the basement because of the age of the building and the thickness of the stone. They don't want anyone loosing cell service during important calls. Ergo, everyone's phones getting ID'd

Originally Posted by Gistok

Just found this out....

Hundreds are already under investigation, because their phones were targeted by the data computer in the Capitol, the minute they entered the building , their phone was IDed and registered with their name, home address, the whole enchilada!!.... DOJ just announced that sedition & conspiracy charges are already charged up to these thugs, and they are on the NO FLY list with every airline.

**Jimaz** · January-12-21, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Just found this out....

Hundreds are already under investigation, because their phones were targeted by the data computer in the Capitol, the minute they entered the building , their phone was IDed and registered with their name, home address, the whole enchilada!!.... DOJ just announced that sedition & conspiracy charges are already charged up to these thugs, and they are on the NO FLY list with every airline.

Oh. Then that explains this: