Thousands gather in Brighton for tea party protest on government spending

**elganned** · September-09-09, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by irish_mafia

Of course, there was the choice of tax cuts across the board that would have provided immediate capital infusion into the economy and free up investment dollars for small businesses that generate the vast majority of jobs in this country. A choice with immediate "stimulative" results and without the long tern deficit spending attached to Obamas plans.

You object to increasing outgo, but you don't object to decreasing income. Don't they produce the same effect? Same income with more spending = same spending with less income.

I don't see the difference.

Instead of cash for clunkers, they could have offered $4500 tax credits to anybody purchasing an American car leaving the "clunkers" for low income charities that provide cars for people that need to get to a starter job. Instead, we destroyed existing value of used cars and provided the majority of the funds to Kia, Hyndai and Toyota.

People insist on seeing the cash for clunkers program as merely another stimulus effort while ignoring its other objective, which was to reduce dependence on foreign oil and reduce vehicle carbon emissions by getting less fuel-efficient vehicles off the road. Turning around and putting the gas-guzzlers back on the road would have been self-defeating. The stimulus component was just the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine more palatable.

I do note, however, that you object to stimulus spending in one breath and then castigate a program because it didn't concentrate on stimulus. How consistent of you.

**oladub** · September-09-09, 10:58 AM

People insist on seeing the cash for clunkers program as merely another stimulus effort while ignoring its other objective, which was to reduce dependence on foreign oil and reduce vehicle carbon emissions by getting less fuel-efficient vehicles off the road. Turning around and putting the gas-guzzlers back on the road would have been self-defeating. The stimulus component was just the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine more palatable.

Oh no, elganned, you are defending the ill concieved Cash for Asians program again. Half the money we borrowed from China left the US to employ foreign auto workers. It did, as you say, replace older vehicles with better gas milage cars. However, that fact did not consider the following. [[1.) 15% of the energy used by a vehicle over its lifetime is used in its construction. So, if a vehicle still had 20% of its life left, 3% of the energy it consumed would have to be destoyed, thus offsetting the fuel savings of the new vehicle by a limilar amount. [[2.) The energy used to transport the foreign content of new vehicles thousands of miles. [[3.) Ten year old vehicles being traded in were replaced by cars getting over 2mpg more before Obama's Cash of Asians program even started.

The Obama adminitration could have come up with an even greener giveaway program saving more fuel and hiring more Americans if it had instead reopened a GM factory to produce light rail and/or high speed rail equipment so we wouldn't have to keep importing them. I mean, if saving fuel was what this was all about.

**Papasito** · September-09-09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Stosh

The [[[[[[[[[ express arrives here with their hired guns.

why would Democrats blindly support the administration spending blindly and encouraging hyperinflation? country before party, ladies and gentlemen.

**ghettopalmetto** · September-09-09, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

why would Democrats blindly support the administration spending blindly and encouraging hyperinflation? country before party, ladies and gentlemen.

What's your source of data for hyperinflation?

UFO · September-09-09, 11:59 AM

You guys with this racism shit sound just as ridiculous as some of those people at the protests at times.

Im sure their are some people who hate the president because he is black but it goes both ways.

There is enough racism coming from the presidents ties like Van Jones,rev wright etc etc.
"typical white people" "bush hates black people"

Lets be real. We all say stupid shit at times . DOnt even try to deny it
I mean seriously,, drop the name calling shit.
You are not going to get anywhere with helping the poor this way. It doesnt work.
You want a public option like I do? TThen get the fuck out and speak to these people instead of constantly talking shit about them.
Calling people uneducated doesnt hold water because I have witnessed many people with degrees who are as dumb as a door knob..
Bring a cooler with some pop or something and offer them to sit down and go over it blow by blow.
Pros and cons.

If you can change one persons mind then that is great. You are one step closer.

Thats the problem with the 2 parties, you guys would rather follow blindly and talk shit about one another instead of actually trying to convince one another about why this or that is right or wrong.

Helpig people is right, but forcing people to help is wrong and that is why they need to be convinced.
Since single payer is off the table and so are government panels then death by governent should no longer be a concern to them.

Its about helping to convince the to be more charitable.

**Lowell** · September-09-09, 01:32 PM

Thousands gather in Brighton for tea party protest on government spending ...

So where were they on election day?

Outvoted by millions.

Time to call these parties by their real name "Kool-aid Parties".

**Big Dog** · September-09-09, 01:45 PM

Kaaaa-ching..........

**oladub** · September-09-09, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

What's your source of data for hyperinflation?

Hyperinflation does not exist. We presently have asset deflation coexisting with increased costs of certain goods and services like food, medical care, and taxation. The Bush and Obama administrations have replaced private debt with public debt to try to keep the economic bubble pumped up with liquidity. Inflation, for purists, refers to an inflated money supply which generally leads to higher prices.

The Chinese government, as mentioned on another thread, is so worried about the dollar collapsing that it is now a net seller of US Treasuries. Unable to find enough buyers for treasuries, the Fed is now just printing money like Germany in the 20's or Zimbabwe today. They consequently had hyperinflation. There is no guarantee that such policies will have the same end result here. In fact, Geithner says that won't happen here. Unfortunately, he didn't foresee our present situation occuring either. Also, the price of gold has gone up about $50/ounce in the last week. That is said to occur when there is fear of inflation or a collapsing dollar.

**rb336** · September-09-09, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

The Bush and Obama administrations have replaced private debt with public debt to try to keep the economic bubble pumped up with liquidity. Inflation.

make that reagan, bush, semi-clinton, bush and obama. the only difference? the others, [[although obama ultimately will, too), all pushed increasing levels of private debt as well

**humanmachinery** · September-09-09, 03:40 PM

I'm glad that thousands of people so short on money for paying taxes could take time off work and haul themselves out to Brighton.

Further food for thought: the original Boston Tea Party was not created to protest a tax hike. It was a protest of a tax BREAK given to The East India Tea Company. They were one of the corporate giants of the British Empire, and cutting their taxes gave them an advantage over the illegal American tea smugglers.

http://www.boston-tea-party.org/tea-act.html
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/15-10

Not that this ever stopped Ronnie Raygun from using the Tea Party to promote his tax cuts.

**ghettopalmetto** · September-09-09, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by humanmachinery

I'm glad that thousands of people so short on money for paying taxes could take time off work and haul themselves out to Brighton.

Further food for thought: the original Boston Tea Party was not created to protest a tax hike. It was a protest of a tax BREAK given to The East India Tea Company. They were one of the corporate giants of the British Empire, and cutting their taxes gave them an advantage over the illegal American tea smugglers.

http://www.boston-tea-party.org/tea-act.html
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/15-10

Not that this ever stopped Ronnie Raygun from using the Tea Party to promote his tax cuts.

Bearing that in mind, I wonder how many of the "thousands" of anti-tax whiners, er protesters, have even bothered to pick up the phone and call their *elected representatives* to the Congress, which the original Tea Partiers didn't have.

ccbatson · September-09-09, 03:52 PM

Update...8-10 thousand in Brighton AND TROY.

Keep on sleeping libs, there is nothing to see here.

Haikoont · September-09-09, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Thousands gather in Brighton for tea party protest on government spending ...

So where were they on election day?

Outvoted by millions.

Time to call these parties by their real name "Kool-aid Parties".

My guess is that on election day, many of them voted. And their ideology lost. But does that mean they should just sit down and shut up and not try to have any voice in the political process? Is that what you've done whenever your ideology has been outvoted by millions?

**wash_man** · September-09-09, 06:33 PM

Wow. Mike Cox was there. He must be scraping the bottom of the barrel for votes for Governor. Now all that he needs is an endorsement from Sarah Quitter Palin...lol!

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...y_express.html

**Papasito** · September-09-09, 06:39 PM

The [[[[[[[[[ express arrives here with their hired guns. Thousands out of a potential how many? Do these people have jobs? I think not. Except for the GOP checks in their pocket.

Let's not forget the people who were paid and bussed out to Obama's events during his campaign.

Besides, you are giving the Republicans way too much unwarranted credit if you seriously think they have the organizational skills to bring out people in these numbers. You're forgetting the Republicans are the same idiots that ran McCain's failed bid for the Presidency. They simply don't have the leadership and coordination to pull off what you are suggesting.

There are only a few things that get Americans to set down their beer and get their butts off the couch. Such worthy causes include: getting another beer, having sex, and if they are pissed off about something.

The GOP is not capable of such a movement as these tea parties. People are legitimately pissed off.

Lorax · September-09-09, 06:53 PM

That's a load of crap.

"Freedom Works" has admitted to sending out thousands of their minions to disrupt only Democratic town hall meetings. You don't hear of any Rethuglican town hall meetings being disrupted, do you?

And Freedom Works is only one of dozens of fascist organizations doing this- add to that the marching orders given to the frothing masses of talk radio assholes like:

Limbarf
Hamhannity
Savage
Medved
Ingraham
Schnitt
Boortz
Orally
Glenda Speck
and on , and on, and on......

No, what's even worse than Rethugs not having the organizational skill to show up on their own, is having to be told to do it. Disgusting.

**Patrick** · September-09-09, 07:23 PM

Do these tea baggers also agree that we have been pissing billions down the toilet in Iraq and Afghanistan?

**Patrick** · September-09-09, 07:28 PM

Al Franken handled this pretty good....listen to what he says and how he handled angry taxpayers.

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2...en_swarmed.php

**humanmachinery** · September-09-09, 07:57 PM

Not all the attendees are Republican operatives, but this is part of a national campaign of rallies organized by a conservative PAC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHwdn1bi7_E

CNN covered this recent rally in San Antonio, though I think the footage is somewhat less than flattering.

Of course, it's not easy to portray people in a good light when they cheer en masse for Sarah Palin.

**wash_man** · September-09-09, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Let's not forget the people who were paid and bussed out to Obama's events during his campaign.

Besides, you are giving the Republicans way too much unwarranted credit if you seriously think they have the organizational skills to bring out people in these numbers. You're forgetting the Republicans are the same idiots that ran McCain's failed bid for the Presidency. They simply don't have the leadership and coordination to pull off what you are suggesting.

There are only a few things that get Americans to set down their beer and get their butts off the couch. Such worthy causes include: getting another beer, having sex, and if they are pissed off about something.

The GOP is not capable of such a movement as these tea parties. People are legitimately pissed off.

Perhaps they are legitimately pissed off. That's because they've been fed a shit load of misinformation. If they would listen/read actual facts, they might not be so pissed off.

**alsodave** · September-09-09, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by wash_man

Perhaps they are legitimately pissed off. That's because they've been fed a shit load of misinformation. If they would listen/read actual facts, they might not be so pissed off.

Maybe they'd be pissed off at the people who are feeding them misinformation...

Lorax · September-09-09, 08:51 PM

It wouldn't matter. They want to believe the bullshit spewed by the hate merchants on the right.

For many, it's a referendum on having a half black/half white president, which equates to racism.

For others it's blindly following the talking points of the talk radio shysters, which could also contain a modicum of hate/racism.

For a minority, it's because they truly believe the crap they listen to, which I can guarantee is everything and anything mentioned on Fuxed News.

**irish_mafia** · September-09-09, 10:14 PM

It doesn't sound like anyone wanted to belive the big O tonight. Very sad night for oratory. I do have to say he is either an idiiot or ready to take this country down y any means possible.

In either case, I hope his wife gives him a good slapping along the way.

What a dufus!

ccbatson · September-09-09, 11:10 PM

Notice that the core of the liberal response to conservative ideas is to call them names...never to confront the issues. That is a sure sign of being on the losing side of an argument from a fact and rational argument point of view.

**elganned** · September-10-09, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Notice that the core of the liberal response to conservative ideas is to call them names...never to confront the issues. That is a sure sign of being on the losing side of an argument from a fact and rational argument point of view.

I'm sorry, am I reading the same thread you are?

I thought it was irish_mafia who just called the president a dufus and an idiot. I don't think you would classify irish_mafia as a liberal, and I doubt you would classify Obama as espousing conservative ideas. So where does that leave your premise?

Physician, heal thyself.