How do y'all deal with service redlining from suburban contractors?

[Hamtragedy]

Kind of as an add-on to Hamtragedy's point about packing up
his/her tools from the vacant house, the contractors who installed
the new furnace and A/C did send a large group of people
[[five, counting the owner/supervisor) with an intention of
installing the new system within one day which they did
accomplish.

Whether it was due to a desire to provide excellent customer
service or fear of major theft or both I couldn't say for sure.

Yup, those guys are out there. And they send every truck out they have. Bam! Done in one day. And the work is awesome. I've seen them stay till 11 at night before.

I wish I could find a enough reliable staff to knock stuff out in a day. For now I'm a one man operation and even small projects take a few days. Hell, it just took me a solid week to rip out a 1920s leaking shower pan [[ONLY) because of the surgery required to not damage extra tiles, not make the 60 pound lead pan friable [[airborn), remove the 6 inches of concrete from the floor and the three inches of the concrete from the wall. All while trying not to damage the decorative plaster in the foyer below. And not cover the house [[and my lungs) with silica dust. Five of those hours were spent covering the surrounding floors with ramboard and half the house in plastic. Nothing like damaging a freshly coated oak floor, [[which I may or may not have done myself, only to get a call three weeks later that the shitty plumber they hired gouged the crap out of). Or worse, damaging historic tile elsewhere in the house.

Even the respective artists in their trades I utilize rarely get stuff done in a day. And these old houses really don't allow you to get out of there that quickly. There's just not enough room in some of those bathrooms for more than one person working at a time.

But if someone's at the house overnight, I'm fine leaving tools. But the client is usually aware their house might be a construction zone for a bit. I also deal with emergencies for a long list of regulars and those I usually knock out in a couple hours in the morning on the way in.

If I can make one suggestion: ONE ROOM / PROJECT AT A TIME! Don't start tearing into multiple rooms and expect them all to be done by next week when your wife moves in.

Basic rules apply:

If you want it cheap and fast, it won't be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it won't be fast.
If you want it good and fast, it won't be cheap.

[Richard]

What’s worse is when a plumber busts out a wall of historic tile in order to change a shower valve,when all they had to do was ream or replace the seats in the existing one.

It is interesting how creative some were when indoor plumbing was introduced,it brought a whole new meaning to the term - water closet.

In 1900 if one wanted to upgrade to electricity,the average 2 story house which included 1 light and 1 outlet to each room,closets extra,was $5000 which is equal to $74,000 in today’s money.

Outlets were a novelty because there were only a few items available that you could even buy to plug into one.

20 amp service run to the house was the norm where today it is 200 amp.

[Lowell]

A flip side of service redlining is for the outside service provider to make a ridiculously high bid, knowing that it will be either rejected or, if accepted, be worth the perceived 'risk' with the option of still dumping it or delaying it until the customer gives up on it.

From my decades in Highland Park, I'm with the advice of those above like Hamtragedy. Ask around and tap into your neighborhood contractors. It keeps the money local and will make you a part of the community. After damage to my house from the 1997 tornado I got quick and excellent repairs and was at the head of the line due to established relationships.

[Hamtragedy]

What’s worse is when a plumber busts out a wall of historic tile in order to change a shower valve,when all they had to do was ream or replace the seats in the existing one.


It is interesting how creative some were when indoor plumbing was introduced,it brought a whole new meaning to the term - water closet.

In 1900 if one wanted to upgrade to electricity,the average 2 story house which included 1 light and 1 outlet to each room,closets extra,was $5000 which is equal to $74,000 in today’s money.

Outlets were a novelty because there were only a few items available that you could even buy to plug into one.

20 amp service run to the house was the norm where today it is 200 amp.

I get to work on those shower valves. And fix the damaged tile. Most of the valves are cake. The tile requires some creativity, as even my east coast old tile salvagers are drying up. [[Those old subway and white tiles almost all came from Trenton NJ). Only two plumbing supply houses in Detroit remain that even carry those old odd-ball parts and I'm a regular. The complicated ones, I found a navy guy to make for me [[within reason). The difficult ones are those massive shower mixers with 6 spray heads, as newer parts don't quite fit or seal properly [[Speakman, Crane), some the seats won't come out [[Speakman tub fixture) or I can't get my hands on a part to have my navy guy make [[Standard shower mixer main bolt from the late 30s). Add corroded galvanized pipes with rusticles forming, and galvanic reactions from copper repairs, and yup....multiple days or weeks.

As for the electrical, I always laugh when I walk into a mansion in BE or Palmer woods and find more outlets from the central vacuum system then electrical outlets in the entire house. I always say, "each room got an electrical outlet, whether it needed it or not." Then there's those houses with the two massive service panels [[with 60 fuses each and fused neutrals), some next to the toilet [[a Fisher mansion comes to mind), that you'd swear Thomas Edison installed himself, and the entire house is carrying 60 amp service a hundred years later. Don't plug that space heater in.

[Richard]

I looked at a Horace Trumbauer estate in Philadelphia that still has 90% of its original DC wiring in it still in operation,that house got DC and another got AC out of the first two private residences to receive power in the country.

The bathrooms were original from the late 1800s all 55 of them,with 55 bedrooms and 110 rooms but it’s all going to waste now and will probably end up like Rose Terrace because the current owner will not come off of the sale price because they are mad at the city,still for sale but priced for demolition by neglect.

If you are interested there is a company,I will have to check and see if they are still in existence,they recreate subway tile tinted to match 90% of vintage tile.

I replaced a few and you really had to look hard to see where they were afterwards,that’s how close they get.

Parts are here are also hard to find after they closed all the independent hardware stores who had it stashed up in the lofts before and what is really aggravating is this stupid itsy fad where people are hanging vintage windows on the walls,it’s screwing it ul for those looking for original replacements.

I used to find them for free set out at the curb,now they call it art and hang it on the wall.

We say the younger generation does not want to acquire the skills to help preserve some of these lady’s in the future but I have a friend whose daughter after high school went to college in Charleston to be a historic architectural engineer.

She can look at a photograph of a vintage room and recreate the elaborate crown moldings and trim and fancy plaster ceilings like in the old movie theaters and create the drawings for it exactly to scale even down to the profile of the knife that will be needed to recreate them.Its pretty cool that technology produces.

[Sehv313]

Been in the city all of my life, I rarely hire contractors out of city limits. If I do it is usually for jobs that might require a credit card, if the price is not in my monthly home repair budget. And those companies are like Mr. Roof, or Andy's Statewide in Orion Township, who provide great service. But for cheap regular services I usually fix them myself or hire contractors in city limits.

[Sehv313]

Then there's those houses with the two massive service panels [[with 60 fuses each and fused neutrals), some next to the toilet [[a Fisher mansion comes to mind), that you'd swear Thomas Edison installed himself, and the entire house is carrying 60 amp service a hundred years later. Don't plug that space heater in.

Funny, I just replaced my 60 watt system three months ago. House built in 1925.

[intelligentBeing]

Sad that you have to go to the 'burbs' to find a 'qualified' contractor. Think about why suburban contractors don't want to work in Detroit, and why there aren't enough local entrepreneurs to fill your needs. [[Hint, its mostly not racism).

The long-term solution is to remove the impediments to working in the City.

1) Reduce crime, increase police funding and ignore BLM [[and all other racists).

2) Eliminate city income tax in Detroit and Pontiac [[and Hamtramck).

3) Allow diversity in education [[non-DPS), and acknowledge that DPS and the Teacher's Union are part of the problem, not the solution.

If you remove these problems, you'll go a long way towards

Well said!

[KnnNike]

To make it worse there is a skilled trade shortage,even more so those with the knowledge and experience with working on old homes.

Most were custom built even down to the windows.

The younger generation contractors seem to have the tear it down because it is old,mostly because they present a challenge.

Most of the contractors that you may have been calling probably deal with cookie cutter homes so it is probably better that they do not come by,you will know when you find the right fit and when you do it will be a better fit you and your house long term.

Sorry you disliked my post and felt it was not even remotely relating to your situation,sense you want to dwell on the redlining aspect without any other insight then okay I will agree with you,everybody is a racist and that is the reason you cannot find a contractor.

Welcome to the world of homeownership and vintage homes,but it appears that you are more interested in a discussion about redlining in Detroit verses an actual solution or understanding towards it.

I don't share the opinion that everyone is a racist, and that's not why I said your response wasn't relevant... You seemed to be under the impression that people were refusing to take the work after a discussion and understanding of the complexity... This was not the case, the people just don't want to set foot in the city. I'm sorry that it came off a little brusque.

I felt your latest response was condescending and unnecessarily sarcastic.

[gnome]

First a Catholic church near your house; ask the priest for a trustworthy __________. The priest will know because they have the know. They too live in 100 year old houses.

And then ignore anything Richard says. He has more advice than carter has pills.

[Richard]

^ there you go,pray they find a good contractor,better then taking advice from a lawn ornament at any rate.

Been in the city how long and not even an established a good relationship with a contractor yet that you can recommend?

Meh I used to avoid working with grumpy customers also,so I guess that is no surprise,maybe that’s why it’s so hard to find one,people run them all off with their attitude.

Most that live in a 100 year old house and have an established relationship with a contractor will not recommend them out,because they are afraid if they recommend them to somebody like you and you piss them off then they will not do anymore work for them.

Or they like to keep their contractors secret because if they get too busy they will not have time for them if they need them.

A reputable contractor stays busy with their established client list and does not have time to be spending on the phone all day,so you learn to read people really fast,less then 5 minutes into a conversation a contractor already knows if they are going to continue,end the call or be confident enough to make a recommendation to somebody else in the field.

When I was a contractor,I used to get paid a monthly retainer weather I worked on the house or not,because the customers wanted to make shure they stayed in the list,no different then a lawyer.

The funniest ones are when they call a contractor with a list of demands and how it is going to work without realizing there are 30 people in front of them that are more understanding and will be a lot less headaches.

No matter where you go,any city or state or even country,finding a good reputable contractor is about the same as trying to find a good wife.

Its not going to happen fast.

Of course the same attitude displayed in some here reflects why the city turned down the $53,000,000 in skills and trades training monies because they did not like who was offering it and people wonder why there’s a skilled trade shortage.

Sense the city felt nobody needed any training they must have thought there were plenty in the city limits to begin with,might be able to call them for a recommendation.

If I was new to a city and new to a neighborhood and looking for a contractor,I would look for the nicest house in the block and introduce myself and explain what my situation was,even if they say no,ask if I could leave a number in case they run across somebody. It gives them time to think it over.

A 100 year old house does not stay that way without a good contractor in the wings.

[Meddle]

First a Catholic church near your house; ask the priest for a trustworthy __________.

Just don't take your kid[[s) with you.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Hah! There are other figures of authority, policy and doctrine I'd not want my children around as well!