Is Downtown at Risk of Going Backwards?

**Danny** · September-05-20, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Nope, no delays yet. If you read the Freep article in the Monroe Block thread they reached out to Related about the UofM campus and they confirmed that it is still planned to break ground in 2021.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2020/08/22/detroit-office-market-covid-gilbert-buildings/3385465001/

When I see construction in that site. I'll believe it.

**Satiricalivory** · September-05-20, 09:41 AM

Okay? The point is there is no delay, source is straight from the horses mouth.

**stinkytofu** · September-06-20, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Danny

When I see construction in that site. I'll believe it.

Agreed.

By the way, this certainly isn't good for the short term for downtown [[even though RenCen is its own fortress). Thousands and thousands not downtown until next summer, at earliest. I've also heard rumblings that work from home folks whose main office is in city may have to pay substantially less in Detroit taxes for 2020...which obviously impacts Detroit's tax revenue. Need to look more into it.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ne/5717682002/

**night-timer** · September-06-20, 03:56 PM

Is Downtown safe, or getting worse? Hard to say. It depends on what makes you feel unsafe. A bunch of black bikers gathered on the sidewalk smoking weed with their machines parked in a row? That happens in Greektown near Niki's Lounge and the Detroiter Bar, but they don't worry me personally.

Heroin use in Campus Martius? Never seen it myself, but I'm sure it happens from time to time in every park everywhere. Even offers from drug sellers in Greektown don't faze me much because they walk away as soon as you say you're not interested.

Downtown is a fairly large area if you include venues and bars out along Michigan Avenue towards the MGM Casino or up along Woodward and Foxtown. Downtown is by far not the worst area of Detroit, but again, it is up to the individual what makes you feel uneasy.

**motorcity** · September-07-20, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Agreed.

By the way, this certainly isn't good for the short term for downtown [[even though RenCen is its own fortress). Thousands and thousands not downtown until next summer, at earliest. I've also heard rumblings that work from home folks whose main office is in city may have to pay substantially less in Detroit taxes for 2020...which obviously impacts Detroit's tax revenue. Need to look more into it.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ne/5717682002/

That is true. If you've been working remotely outside the city since March, you didn't technically work in Detroit for 3/4s of the year. You only have to pay city tax on 1/4 of your earnings.

**Zacha341** · September-07-20, 10:54 AM

^^^ Uh-oh. Had not thought of that. My remote-work is in the city so no loop-hole for me.

**motorcity** · September-08-20, 12:54 PM

Crain's Chicago editorial board is worried about Chicago going backwards.

Here's the evidence—in case you needed it—that downtown's been seriously damaged

Recent events have shaped the perception, fairly or unfairly, that downtown is no longer a safe place to live or work, and it's time for everyone—public officials, civic leaders and business execs—to come to terms with that fact.

CRAIN'S EDITORIAL BOARD

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...iously-damaged

**Seven&wyo** · September-08-20, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by motorcity

Crain's Chicago editorial board is worried about Chicago going backwards.

Here's the evidence—in case you needed it—that downtown's been seriously damaged

Recent events have shaped the perception, fairly or unfairly, that downtown is no longer a safe place to live or work, and it's time for everyone—public officials, civic leaders and business execs—to come to terms with that fact.

CRAIN'S EDITORIAL BOARD

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opin...iously-damaged

Wrong city brody

**Zacha341** · September-08-20, 02:19 PM

With a Crain's 'firewall' to boot. No subscription, no read.

**motorcity** · September-08-20, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

With a Crain's 'firewall' to boot. No subscription, no read.

I'm sorry, I'm a subscriber and didn't realize. It basically outlines in good detail uptick vacancy rates and massive oversupply of housing inventory currently for sale. Crime. Work from home being a new reality. And declining perception of city living. "Perception becomes reality." It's not a doomer editorial, it's just trying to confront issues head-on instead of pretending everything is okay.

**Richard** · September-08-20, 04:43 PM

I was watching a documentary and they had it pegged at 78% of the people employed in the city did not reside in the city.

I would be careful using current circumstances dictating working from home as a long term scale,once the novelty of it wears off a majority will have a difficult time separating work and home life.

They are already saying people are spending 6 hours a week of non paid time towards work at home.

Physiologically people need to be out and about and leaving for work in the morning plays a part in that,along with the workplace socializing aspect.

You have to have an independent self motivated streak to be able to pull that off long term,if everybody had that they would not be working for somebody in the first place.

What is going on now is just another bump in the road,another bump will come along and things will change again.

Recent protests have people looking negative at urban living but if you look at the ones that are highlighted,the protests and related violence have been consistent for the last 7 years,people just got distracted and stopped keeping up with them.

COD actually did pretty good on that aspect,there are a couple of other cities in the state that did not hold up so well.

There is a difference between flashpoint violence that destroys cities and continued violence that you are aware of and can govern accordingly.

**motorcity** · September-09-20, 04:31 PM

Corktown's Detroit Institute of Bagels is closed; building and business are up for sale

https://www.freep.com/story/entertai...ss/5759645002/

**Danny** · September-12-20, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by motorcity

Corktown's Detroit Institute of Bagels is closed; building and business are up for sale

https://www.freep.com/story/entertai...ss/5759645002/

COVID-19 and a busted oven caused the business to close. Oh well it happens.

**SammyS** · September-12-20, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

I was watching a documentary and they had it pegged at 78% of the people employed in the city did not reside in the city.

I would be careful using current circumstances dictating working from home as a long term scale,once the novelty of it wears off a majority will have a difficult time separating work and home life.

They are already saying people are spending 6 hours a week of non paid time towards work at home.

Physiologically people need to be out and about and leaving for work in the morning plays a part in that,along with the workplace socializing aspect.

You have to have an independent self motivated streak to be able to pull that off long term,if everybody had that they would not be working for somebody in the first place.

What is going on now is just another bump in the road,another bump will come along and things will change again.

Recent protests have people looking negative at urban living but if you look at the ones that are highlighted,the protests and related violence have been consistent for the last 7 years,people just got distracted and stopped keeping up with them.

COD actually did pretty good on that aspect,there are a couple of other cities in the state that did not hold up so well.

There is a difference between flashpoint violence that destroys cities and continued violence that you are aware of and can govern accordingly.

Agree with everything you said. Parents need a break from their kids, couples need a break from one another and people need a break from being inside. The work/life duality brings balance with a bit of predictable uncertainty.

This mess will be over by early November. Then we need to figure out how small business recoups with hopefully less government interference moving forward.

**313WX** · September-12-20, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by SammyS

This mess will be over by early November.

Not according to any reputable scientist.

**Vic01** · September-13-20, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Not according to any reputable scientist.

agree x10

**SammyS** · September-13-20, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Not according to any reputable scientist.

We entrusted too many dickhead “scientists” who all got it wrong. Did more harm than was warranted included economic damage to Detroit. It should be blatantly obvious by now that there is political motivation behind the continued lockdowns and restrictions.

**Honky Tonk** · September-13-20, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by SammyS

We entrusted too many dickhead “scientists” who all got it wrong. Did more harm than was warranted included economic damage to Detroit. It should be blatantly obvious by now that there is political motivation behind the continued lockdowns and restrictions.

You are absolutely correct. I'm waiting for the economic fallout after the election. Guess who'll be footing the bill?

**motorcity** · September-13-20, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

COVID-19 and a busted oven caused the business to close. Oh well it happens.

There are several times as many restaurants and small businesses that are also closing that the media doesn't cover. This is just an example of a prominent one they did.

**motorcity** · September-13-20, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by SammyS

We entrusted too many dickhead “scientists” who all got it wrong. Did more harm than was warranted included economic damage to Detroit. It should be blatantly obvious by now that there is political motivation behind the continued lockdowns and restrictions.

Here's the state's top "expert" ... a corrupt bureaucrat.

Detroit inspector general accuses health leader Dr. Khaldun of 'abuse' of power

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...er/4729597002/

**Seven&wyo** · September-13-20, 10:40 AM

Hey now guys I think you're being unfair here. Covid has a 99.9% survival rate of healthy people below the age of 70, clearly this was reason alone to NOT quarantine the elderly and immunocompromised and instead destroy the economy and Christ knows how many business in the process.
And if you take out the immunocompromised [[ people with 1 or more serious preexisting conditions) 9800 people have died and that's clearly too many.

>Sarcasm<

**313WX** · September-13-20, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by SammyS

We entrusted too many dickhead “scientists” who all got it wrong.

What medical school did you go to?

How many therapies for diseases have you developed?

How many professional societies for medicine are you a member of?

**motorcity** · September-13-20, 11:42 AM

Count me as worried about the Big Three trimming their white collar workforce. Where are the people and talent going to come from to grow downtown's population? Who is going to fill Hudson's pricey commercial and residential space? Heck, who is going to fill Ford's MCS after Ford trimmed 10% of their salaried work force in 2019, then just announced they're trimming another 1,400 veteran white collars? And now we have this work from home trend that shows no signs of easing. If you work from home outside of Detroit and/or outside of Wayne County and/or outside of Michigan all together you can avoid a lot of taxes. Anyone remember when Ford CEO Mark Fields was caught taking a Ford private jet to Dearborn from his Florida beach house? No need for the jet anymore. These are real challenges for Whitmer, Duggan and Gilbert.

**Jason** · September-13-20, 01:41 PM

At least DetroitYes has an ignore list...

**Gistok** · September-13-20, 01:43 PM

This isn't just a Detroit problem... but a tragic national one. Just look at Korea and their handling of the pandemic at the same time the US started with it.... very low mortality rate, very low infection rate.

We just bungled the whole coronavirus from the top down. I am praying for a regime change, because we have no "national" policy in place for containing this epidemic... hot spots will just continue to keep flairing up around the country. Whatever major mistakes Whitmer was involved in, such as putting patients into Nursing/Rehab centers... the governors in the south are much more negligent with their policies of not requiring mask wearing and practicing better social distancing. Although a significant part of that problem lies in the people themselves.

One thing for sure about this pandemic... mom and pop stores, and especially restaurants and bars are going to be an endangered species... if not already... then starting the fall, when outdoor service becomes impossible. By next year I can see the majority of individual owned establishments gone forever. Maybe they will be replaced by new entrepreneurs once the pandemic is over... or who knows what the future will bring...

This problem is not just a City of Detroit problem, but it involves the suburbs and outstate areas as well. Here in SCS... I look at all the independent businesses along Harper Ave. and other major retail strips, and wonder how many empty "for lease" signs will show up by spring time.

As for working from home. I don't think that most jobs will have out-of-state workers working from home. How can you have a California employee working for a Michigan company, when the Cost of Living is so much higher in California, thus requiring a significantly higher salary?

Most businesses will continue to require employees to come to work, at least part time. Part of that is the employees don't want to work from home full time. When I was at Ameritech [[pre-2000) working from home 2 days a week was nice... but I didn't really want to work from home more than that. You need social interactions... as well as interactions with your higher ups... for evaluation/bonus reasons especially.

Also, congress needs to get their act together for another round of economic stimulus... even the Federal Reserve has issued that warning. Things will get worse, and unemployment will go up if they do not.

And then there is the deferred tragedy... people being evicted from their houses/apartments, and water shutoff. Banking and Tax foreclosures. This will become a national tragedy in the making.