Is Downtown at Risk of Going Backwards?

**Colombian Dan** · August-30-20, 07:23 PM

Give Tesla 5 years,.. that giant sucking sound is the remaining professional class of metro Detroit heading to Texas.... the internal combustion engine is dead....

**Zacha341** · August-30-20, 07:31 PM

^^^ Hold up! LOL! Mine is still eh' combusting - or a least moving forward pretty fast [[200+ Miles). Toyota sedan.

I do try to keep my oil changed!

**Danny** · October-18-20, 05:37 AM

G-Star Raw Clothier Store is closed!!! Covid-19 close their dreams.

**DetroitSoldier** · October-18-20, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

G-Star Raw Clothier Store is closed!!!

But where will I buy jeans for $300 and a plain white t-shirt for $100?

**Honky Tonk** · October-18-20, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

But where will I buy jeans for $300 and a plain white t-shirt for $100?

I have several pairs of jeans, with holes in them, I can let you have for $150 a pair. A bargain. As far as t-shirts, well, they're sorta white...

**Zacha341** · October-22-20, 07:46 PM

Well OK, HT I guess those will do for those who must pay for rags.

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I have several pairs of jeans, with holes in them, I can let you have for $150 a pair. A bargain. As far as t-shirts, well, they're sorta white...

**Zacha341** · October-22-20, 07:48 PM

Dense-weave, pre-shrunk and blocked cotton t-shirt mind you. There really is a difference : ) ehh... well.

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

But where will I buy jeans for $300 and a plain white t-shirt for $100?

**Danny** · November-16-20, 05:52 AM

COVID-19 almost made Gilberttown Detroit disappear. However Dan Gilbert has another up sleeve.

**Danny** · January-14-21, 09:01 AM

The planned Campus Martius Building has been turned into a snotty drive-in movie theater.

**bust** · August-30-20, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Boise [[Idaho) or Bozeman [[Montana) bound?

There are almost 100 million Trump supporters. So yeah, them. Join them if you want to.

Geography and weather are two important factors I consider where we live. Culture, politics, and society too.
Boise and Bozeman have geography, not weather.
[[Maybe if after a decade or two we're still burning a carbon inferno.)
Culture, politics, and society, um....
If they're your ideals I get what you mean, and reject them.
Again to make sure you understand.

**Gistok** · August-30-20, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Michigan's weather is objectively terrible, the topography is flat and it's so darn expensive to live here, hence over 30 years of brain drain.

You just basically described every city east of the Rockies and north of the Mason-Dixon line. It's expensive to live here? Huh?? Compared to Davenport Iowa maybe, but compared to other metro areas, metro Detroit is pretty reasonable to live here.

I used to be a computer analyst for the phone company, and 25 years ago we were already allowed to work from home 2 days a week. So for many companies, work at home is nothing new, and has already been factored into the office space configuration. Perhaps they will be allowed to work at home 4 days a week, but most companies likely won't allow working from home full time.

**Satiricalivory** · August-30-20, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

Give Tesla 5 years,.. that giant sucking sound is the remaining professional class of metro Detroit heading to Texas.... the internal combustion engine is dead....

LOL you clearly know nothing about Tesla.

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

Give Tesla 5 years,.. that giant sucking sound is the remaining professional class of metro Detroit heading to Texas.... the internal combustion engine is dead....

You clearly have no idea how much investment in EV technology is, has been and will be occuring in this area.

I speak from personal experience in the industry. But I can also reference an article from last year:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/3097674002/

...and no, ICE is not dead [[yet). There are still major hurdles to overcome in vehicle cost and charging infrastructure before that becomes a reality. It's a gradual transition, not an overnight switch.

**313WX** · August-31-20, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by wazootyman

You clearly have no idea how much investment in EV technology is, has been and will be occuring in this area.

I speak from personal experience in the industry. But I can also reference an article from last year:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/3097674002/

...and no, ICE is not dead [[yet). There are still major hurdles to overcome in vehicle cost and charging infrastructure before that becomes a reality. It's a gradual transition, not an overnight switch.

Given that Rivian has since confirmed they're moving most of their operations out of Michigan to California, that article is kind of dated.

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Given that Rivian has since confirmed they're moving most of their operations out of Michigan to California, that article is kind of dated.

Rivian is one company, and a start-up at that. I'm well aware of the movement of [[some) jobs to CA. It will be interesting to see what footprint they maintain here long-term.

But to my point, in addition to the internal efforts of the local OEMs, there are a very large number of suppliers with local R&D bases that have a key role in EV powertrain development. Not to mention, EVs utilize a lot of body components shared by ICE-based vehicles.

My point is that there is no reason to make broad declarations that we are doomed. Could be the opposite.

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by evo

When's the last time you were in California or Texas?

Not sure how that's relevant. But I'm sure you're intending to use my response to make a point - which is?

**intelligentBeing** · August-31-20, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by evo

we're losing families and smart college graduates to.

I would argue that we are losing families but gaining college grads. Losing more families than gaining grads. Detroit simply needs more jobs and not just tech jobs. We need another quicken/Ford or two to get real again, not an easy task. School of choice could also allow families to live in the city and not be punished by corrupt and horrendous DPS. I think the big gains in MI will be [[and currently are) GR and AA. DET needs to look to these areas for inspiration.

**JonWylie** · August-31-20, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by intelligentBeing

I would argue that we are losing families but gaining college grads. Losing more families than gaining grads. Detroit simply needs more jobs and not just tech jobs. We need another quicken/Ford or two to get real again, not an easy task. School of choice could also allow families to live in the city and not be punished by corrupt and horrendous DPS. I think the big gains in MI will be [[and currently are) GR and AA. DET needs to look to these areas for inspiration.

School of choice has also been a big factor in harming districts like Detroit. DPS has really been focused on filling vacancies, hiring qualified teachers, and shoring up building issues left by state oversight. Encouraging people to send their kids elsewhere is not really going to help the problem, it will just push it down the line. Crain's just did a piece on school funding and the discrepancies between districts. We really should be encouraging people to send their kids to DPS and do so with confidence because the city and state are investing in those schools.

**intelligentBeing** · August-31-20, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by evo

You are free to argue whatever you'd like, however, there is nothing to support this is actually happening. Brain drain has not slowed. This Census is going to be a big butt whooping for Detroit, SE Michigan and the state overall.

Population loss will definitely continue but the simple fact that midtown and downtown has gained jobs in the past decade means we are gaining [[or just slowing the loss) young talent that we didnt have before. I can [[half) prove it below, but this is no saving grace for Detroit, as you said brain drain is definitely continuing.

https://datadrivendetroit.org/web_ftp/Census/PlaceProfiles/Detroit_city_MI.pdf
2010 20-29 y/o 13.7% [[7.6%+6.1%) = 97,884
https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...00-detroit-mi/
2018 20-29 y/o 16.5% = 111,079

Now the 2000 numbers are much higher but it is improvement from 2010. Would be interesting to find #/% of residents with college degrees over same time span.

Edit: revised data

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Boosterism is fine, but if you've never been anywhere, your scope is too narrow to grasp what we're competing against, what a thriving growing city looks like, who we're losing families and smart college graduates to.

I'm stating fact, as I'm very much in the automotive electronics industry - one that is very global, and as such, I have seen a lot of travel.

Back to the original point - there is plenty of well-established innovation here. Nothing ever stays the same, but I would not expect the huge volume of automotive R&D that makes up a good portion of our regional economy to go anywhere. Fact is, it's growing [[circumstances of the pandemic excepted).

Per Detroit Regional Chamber [[as of 2017 I think):

- Michigan is home to 2,200 automotive research facilities and 96 of 100 suppliers to North America.
- More than $27B of investment since 2010.
- 117,000 engineers in Michigan.
- Growth of 11.3% in auto-related jobs from 2012-2017, an additional 3% forecasted by 2022 [[as of publishing).
- Michigan is #1 in mobility related patents.

Everything has gone to hell to some degree over the last few months. I'd expect more pain and layoffs, for sure. Locally, nationally and internationally.

You can call it boosterism, but I have a hunch that the Detroit region may fare better than some significant others on the other side of this. But only time will tell, and that is just my optimistic opinion.

**intelligentBeing** · August-31-20, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by wazootyman

You can call it boosterism, but I have a hunch that the Detroit region may fare better than some significant others on the other side of this. But only time will tell, and that is just my optimistic opinion.

The Detroit Regional Partnership does a great job too, similar data/stats. We have the highest concentration of engineers in the nation, apparently. I think our biggest downfall is most of that R&D is very company specific. I would like to see these R&D folks [[hopefully I will be one of them as I am a mech engineer) branch off and start new ventures. The technical talent is here, we are just too silo'd, we need more collaboration.