Is Downtown at Risk of Going Backwards?

**bust** · August-30-20, 07:35 PM

Toyotas are some of the best American-made cars we have.

**Colombian Dan** · August-30-20, 07:42 PM

The same was said of buggy makers... just sayin...

**bust** · August-30-20, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

The same was said of buggy makers... just sayin...

Not smart.

**One Shot** · August-30-20, 08:07 PM

Yes. The kind of people that help Detroit rebound don’t want to brave the city and put up with a bunch of lawless loonies now. Stack that on top of the instant new world we live in. The virus scare. Nobody working downtown to support the new places. No sports or other venues. It’s a real bad time. I’m a fan of what downtown became. But I’m not going down there and put up with that. I’m going to relax and have fun. Not wonder if I’ll get my windows smashed. T boned by a high/drunk. Be caught in an impromptu march. Nope no thanks.

**Seven&wyo** · August-30-20, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by One Shot

Yes. The kind of people that help Detroit rebound don’t want to brave the city and put up with a bunch of lawless loonies now. Stack that on top of the instant new world we live in. The virus scare. Nobody working downtown to support the new places. No sports or other venues. It’s a real bad time. I’m a fan of what downtown became. But I’m not going down there and put up with that. I’m going to relax and have fun. Not wonder if I’ll get my windows smashed. T boned by a high/drunk. Be caught in an impromptu march. Nope no thanks.

There’s almost no chance of that. Christ man up, there’s nothing to be scared of.

**bust** · August-30-20, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Boise [[Idaho) or Bozeman [[Montana) bound?

There are almost 100 million Trump supporters. So yeah, them. Join them if you want to.

Geography and weather are two important factors I consider where we live. Culture, politics, and society too.
Boise and Bozeman have geography, not weather.
[[Maybe if after a decade or two we're still burning a carbon inferno.)
Culture, politics, and society, um....
If they're your ideals I get what you mean, and reject them.
Again to make sure you understand.

**Satiricalivory** · August-30-20, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

Give Tesla 5 years,.. that giant sucking sound is the remaining professional class of metro Detroit heading to Texas.... the internal combustion engine is dead....

LOL you clearly know nothing about Tesla.

**bust** · August-30-20, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Fleet of moving trucks mark exodus from Manhattan’s Upper West Side
https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/fleet-...per-west-side/

You're right, tier one rich cities are struggling -- or wait, every newspaper is pushing a doomer hoax that cities are experiencing issues? -- but there are zero of the same issues in Detroit. Japanese proverb "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"...

We're thrilled [[some of) the rich kiddies are leaving NY!!
[[I haven't been able to afford the Upper West Side since the 90's).

**313WX** · August-30-20, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Although I did recently hear the Bridge Magazine editor speak honestly about new realities of SE Michigan and Detroit. "Managed decline" was the term he used.

That was going to reality with or without COVID.

**bust** · August-30-20, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by evo

I'm not cynical. Sorry I'm well read, well traveled and my head isn't in the sand.

Welcome! No need to apologize. You must be new.

**Gistok** · August-30-20, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by evo

Michigan's weather is objectively terrible, the topography is flat and it's so darn expensive to live here, hence over 30 years of brain drain.

You just basically described every city east of the Rockies and north of the Mason-Dixon line. It's expensive to live here? Huh?? Compared to Davenport Iowa maybe, but compared to other metro areas, metro Detroit is pretty reasonable to live here.

I used to be a computer analyst for the phone company, and 25 years ago we were already allowed to work from home 2 days a week. So for many companies, work at home is nothing new, and has already been factored into the office space configuration. Perhaps they will be allowed to work at home 4 days a week, but most companies likely won't allow working from home full time.

**Satiricalivory** · August-30-20, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

That was going to reality with or without COVID.

I don't think so, metro Detroit was doing pretty fantastic pre-covid like most of the country.

**313WX** · August-31-20, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

I don't think so, metro Detroit was doing pretty fantastic pre-covid like most of the country.

That's nice, dear.

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by Colombian Dan

Give Tesla 5 years,.. that giant sucking sound is the remaining professional class of metro Detroit heading to Texas.... the internal combustion engine is dead....

You clearly have no idea how much investment in EV technology is, has been and will be occuring in this area.

I speak from personal experience in the industry. But I can also reference an article from last year:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/3097674002/

...and no, ICE is not dead [[yet). There are still major hurdles to overcome in vehicle cost and charging infrastructure before that becomes a reality. It's a gradual transition, not an overnight switch.

**313WX** · August-31-20, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by wazootyman

You clearly have no idea how much investment in EV technology is, has been and will be occuring in this area.

I speak from personal experience in the industry. But I can also reference an article from last year:

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/3097674002/

...and no, ICE is not dead [[yet). There are still major hurdles to overcome in vehicle cost and charging infrastructure before that becomes a reality. It's a gradual transition, not an overnight switch.

Given that Rivian has since confirmed they're moving most of their operations out of Michigan to California, that article is kind of dated.

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Given that Rivian has since confirmed they're moving most of their operations out of Michigan to California, that article is kind of dated.

Rivian is one company, and a start-up at that. I'm well aware of the movement of [[some) jobs to CA. It will be interesting to see what footprint they maintain here long-term.

But to my point, in addition to the internal efforts of the local OEMs, there are a very large number of suppliers with local R&D bases that have a key role in EV powertrain development. Not to mention, EVs utilize a lot of body components shared by ICE-based vehicles.

My point is that there is no reason to make broad declarations that we are doomed. Could be the opposite.

**ABetterDetroit** · August-31-20, 09:42 AM

We are in a recession with massive unemployment, everywhere there is retreat economically.

The question is what are we going to do about it? Roll up our sleeves and start competing with other states? Or just keep doing the same old crap that has already made growth middle of the pack at best when the rest of the country is booming?

Example: Nobody doesn’t move somewhere or not start a business because sales tax is charged on baseball tickets in a state. When the property taxes are 3-4 times higher than 40 other states businesses leave that state and put their capital elsewhere.

Change things if a different result is desired.

**wazootyman** · August-31-20, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by evo

When's the last time you were in California or Texas?

Not sure how that's relevant. But I'm sure you're intending to use my response to make a point - which is?

**Gistok** · August-31-20, 10:31 AM

^

Care to be more specific about the filthy areas? You just painted Michigan with a broad stroke... the vast majority is not filthy as you labeled it.

And speaking of filth... you must have missed this about Texas... don't see this happening in Michigan...
https://texasclimatenews.org/?p=14808

Compared to the rest of the nation... Michigan is doing quite well when it comes to coastal water litter...

**Seven&wyo** · August-31-20, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

^

Care to be more specific about the filthy areas? You just painted Michigan with a broad stroke... the vast majority is not filthy as you labeled it.

This “very well read” poster doesn’t like that. Just generalizing and hyperbolizing seems to be his/her thing.

**Seven&wyo** · August-31-20, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by evo

The cities, the interstates, the on and off ramps, Belle Isle, city parks. Sadly, everyone who flies in to visit us makes a comment about the litter and trash on 94 and whatever interchanges and exit we take. When I looked us up on a ranking, we were top 5 or 10 worst litter per capita.

Anecdotal.

**Seven&wyo** · August-31-20, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by evo

Boosterism is fine, but if you've never been anywhere, your scope is too narrow to grasp what we're competing against, what a thriving growing city looks like, who we're losing families and smart college graduates to.

Anecdotal devoid of nuance

**bartocktoo** · August-31-20, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by evo

The cities, the interstates, the on and off ramps, Belle Isle, city parks. Sadly, everyone who flies in to visit us makes a comment about the litter and trash on 94 and whatever interchanges and exit we take. When I looked us up on a ranking, we were top 5 or 10 worst litter per capita.

It's hard to have credibility when you say "everyone who flies in to visit us makes a comment..." I would like to see the ranking you are talking about...and I'd like to know what cities you are referring to. Which city parks besides Belle Isle are you specifically talking about?

**bartocktoo** · August-31-20, 11:05 AM

The above doesn't answer my question. And you know those rankings were of only the states of population of 8 million or more, right? And the criteria is vague at best? And Texas had been "number one" 3 years earlier? And this was six years ago? And, overall apparently Michigan was 29th?

**intelligentBeing** · August-31-20, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by evo

we're losing families and smart college graduates to.

I would argue that we are losing families but gaining college grads. Losing more families than gaining grads. Detroit simply needs more jobs and not just tech jobs. We need another quicken/Ford or two to get real again, not an easy task. School of choice could also allow families to live in the city and not be punished by corrupt and horrendous DPS. I think the big gains in MI will be [[and currently are) GR and AA. DET needs to look to these areas for inspiration.