Tesla and their selection of a new site for a new plant

[masterblaster]

One thing's for certain, he clearly harbors a lot of vitriol hatred for unions, something that helps the working class citizens of the Detroit area maintain what little prosperity they still have. It's sad.

The fact that Detroit area and Michigan in general is unable to attract outside high quality, large scale investments such as the Tesla Gigafactory is really a failure of leadership at the state and local leaders who refuse to proactively go out and sell the positive attributes of the region to companies as well as their unwillingness to spend money on the most basic QOL improvements. It's not the fault of Walt Kowalski who's living paycheck to paycheck to keep a roof over his head and food on his table turning a wrench on the assembly floor at Ford.

Wrong. Doesn't Walt Kowalski elect the state and local leaders? So he is complicit in their failure. He enables it.

[313WX]

Wrong. Doesn't Walt Kowalski elect the state and local leaders? So he is complicit in their failure. He enables it.

You got me there.

[Left_For_Texas]

There were no "Billions" in incentives. Texas gave zero, Austin gave zero, [[The site is a mile or two outside of Austin.), the county and local school district provided tax rebates of $68 million over 10 years. That $68 million is a small part of the taxes that Tesla will pay over 10 years. The economic benefits are well worth rebates on future taxes.

[313WX]

There were no "Billions" in incentives. Texas gave zero, Austin gave zero, [[The site is a mile or two outside of Austin.), the county and local school district provided tax rebates of $68 million over 10 years. That $68 million is a small part of the taxes that Tesla will pay over 10 years. The economic benefits are well worth rebates on future taxes.

Fair points.

Though an argument could be made that they didn't have to give out any incentives in the first place.

[Richard]

Fair points.

Though an argument could be made that they didn't have to give out any incentives in the first place.

The argument could also be made that the federal government should not be subsidizing housing,the city and states also provide incentives in the millions to private investors in order to build affordable housing.

Agree with it or not,it is just the way it is.

They can do smart incentives with conditions and stick to them.

[p69rrh51]

Yeah, that’s what I meant. It’s cheaper when you’re coming from California. Detroit still has their damned no-fault auto insurance though. Back in 2015 when I lived in Dearborn Heights and drove a POS beater car I STILL had to shell out roughly $2200 a year on car insurance premiums, and that was with good credit and a good driving record.
But I would agree that Detroit has a favorable cost of living to most other places. Don’t worry, they’ll experience one Texas summer here after they’ve moved into their new digs and they’ll be like, what have we done?!

Dmberko11, I have a customer who is relocating his recording studio from Los Angeles to Detroit. He looked at a number of cities including Austin. He did not choose Austin because of the cost of living and of all things the LA type traffic. With all the taxes, and high no fault insurance rates Detroit was a better location than Austin and several other cities.
Watching a documentary on the Tesla plant in Nevada I had to laugh. The person doing the tour of the plant was waxing on about all the new and cutting edge technology that went into the design of the plant. I thought to myself "congrats" you just discovered 100 plus year old technology! Nothing like ripping off Albert Kahn's designs and claiming them as your own.

[Richard]

A few years back I ran a COL comparison with Detroit verses other cities and even the low wage states of Alabama,it’s only like $100 difference,so it is not like the metro Detroit area is not competitive in that scope.

[Pat001]

Over the past 30-40 years some 25 foreign auto plants have been built in the U.S. None of them, however, have been built in Michigan. IMHO this can’t all be blamed on the UAW. In Indiana and Ohio, there are UAW-organized domestic auto plants and there are also nonunion foreign plants operated by Honda, Toyota, Subaru. Whatever the reason, Michigan seems to be radioactive.

[Richard]

^ because it is protected territory,COL,lack of brain power,lack of work force,lack of innovation etc etc has zero to do with it.

[Dmberko11]

Dmberko11, I have a customer who is relocating his recording studio from Los Angeles to Detroit. He looked at a number of cities including Austin. He did not choose Austin because of the cost of living and of all things the LA type traffic. With all the taxes, and high no fault insurance rates Detroit was a better location than Austin and several other cities.
Watching a documentary on the Tesla plant in Nevada I had to laugh. The person doing the tour of the plant was waxing on about all the new and cutting edge technology that went into the design of the plant. I thought to myself "congrats" you just discovered 100 plus year old technology! Nothing like ripping off Albert Kahn's designs and claiming them as your own.

Your costumer made a good choice. Motown is legendary for its music scene. To be fair Austin is the live music capital of the world, but it ain’t no Hitsville. Austin indeed has been californicated and is turning into a San Francisco at an alarming rate of speed. Heaven help us! COL is a bit high here. Although I rent an entire house all to myself for $800 a month and it’s only 11 miles from downtown. Garage to park my cars in too. Not bad. Detroit has professional sports teams to watch too, Austin does not. We only have the university of Texas in town and as a Michigan wolverines fan I won’t go to any longhorns games lol.

You’re right about the technology. Tesla is a gimmick. They’re using old technology that’s been around for over a century and they’ve packaged it into an okay electric sports car offering but you way overpay for what you get. I have a 2012 Hyundai Genesis with probably more than the 429 horsepower it came stock with since the previous owner tuned its 5.0 V8 and it has similar performance to the Tesla model 3 dual motor with 460 horsepower that people pay 50-60 grand for. I paid $12k for my Genesis. I don’t get the hype for electric cars. It also costs a lot to charge them than originally promised. Like $22 to get to full charge for the base model 240 mile range model 3. What a bunch of crock. Gas is cheap here in Texas so an electric car is still a niche product.

[masterblaster]

I don’t get the hype for electric cars. It also costs a lot to charge them than originally promised. Like $22 to get to full charge for the base model 240 mile range model 3. What a bunch of crock. Gas is cheap here in Texas so an electric car is still a niche product.

The hype is to reduce air pollution and reducing the release of greenhouse gases. A more than noble goal. Hopefully the Detroit automakers can be the leaders in improving/innovating electric vehicles and making them more affordable.

[Dmberko11]

The hype is to reduce air pollution and reducing the release of greenhouse gases. A more than noble goal. Hopefully the Detroit automakers can be the leaders in improving/innovating electric vehicles and making them more affordable.

Yes, those are indeed noble goals. Tesla is supposed to make a compact car that’s around 20-25 grand. I’d buy that if it has at least 250 miles of range. I just don’t see ICE engines going away anytime soon but maybe I’m wrong. Nothing really replaces that visceral driving experience of hearing a V8 and the shifting of gears and squealing of tires 😂🤣
I recently saw someone take off full throttle in a Tesla and was like wow. That’s the future. Dead silent and no tire spin and instant power. Very impressive. Meanwhile my car will buck and sway and squeal the tires if I punch it when I’m already at 50! Lol

[Pat001]

Nothing really replaces that visceral driving experience of hearing a V8 and the shifting of gears and squealing of tires 藍

Imagine how exciting it will be to attend the Detroit Grand Prix when the cars are all EVs and they go around the track in near silence.

[Satiricalivory]

Elon Musk says Tesla headquarters could still move out of California

Despite winning a standoff with local health officials over reopening his factory, Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk is sticking with his threat to move company headquarters to another state.
“There’s no question that our headquarters will remain in California for the short term,” he said in a recent interview with Automotive News. “Long term, we’ll have to wait and see.”

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-08-04/elon-musk-says-tesla-still-considering-move-out-of-california


He's already preparing to juice California for whatever public money they have to give him. What a great local company!

[Dmberko11]

Imagine how exciting it will be to attend the Detroit Grand Prix when the cars are all EVs and they go around the track in near silence.

That would be a shame. I don’t watch any kind of racing whether it be F1 or NASCAR but I’d be shocked if they replaced all their cars with EVs. Takes away from the mystique of a supercar when you don’t see and hear its ferocious beast under the hood being let loose.

[p1acebo]

That would be a shame. I don’t watch any kind of racing whether it be F1 or NASCAR but I’d be shocked if they replaced all their cars with EVs. Takes away from the mystique of a supercar when you don’t see and hear its ferocious beast under the hood being let loose.

I would have to second this. The sound of the engines is half the enjoyment!

[Mind field]

I don’t get the hype for electric cars. It also costs a lot to charge them than originally promised. Like $22 to get to full charge for the base model 240 mile range model 3. What a bunch of crock. Gas is cheap here in Texas so an electric car is still a niche product.

Where are you getting this figure of $22 from? Source? What is the price of electricity in your area of Texas, per KwH?

[Mind field]

He's already preparing to juice California for whatever public money they have to give him. What a great local company!

He's just playing the game that nearly everyone else plays when it comes to getting tax breaks. There are countless examples of companies doing this, it isn't unique to Tesla and Elon Musk.

[Dmberko11]

Where are you getting this figure of $22 from? Source? What is the price of electricity in your area of Texas, per KwH?

https://evannex.com/pages/tesla-char...on-and-answers

I believe that was where I saw that number.
To be fair, that was charging it with a supercharger, so $0.25 cents a KwH versus the standard $0.13 cents anywhere else. That’s not bad? But to me it’s not compelling enough when you have to outlay $40,000 just to get their cheapest model. Charging your car still takes forever unless you go to a supercharger.

And Teslas have reliability problems and many owners complain of build quality. Look at this article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dri...ty-issues/amp/

Consumer Reports apparently removed their recommended label for Tesla too. I LOVE Elon Musk and his mission? But I am totally impartial to anyone. And frankly I’m disappointed that all these years later they’re still building meh electric sports cars that most can’t afford. So much for changing the world :/

[Mind field]

https://evannex.com/pages/tesla-char...on-and-answers

I believe that was where I saw that number.
To be fair, that was charging it with a supercharger, so $0.25 cents a KwH versus the standard $0.13 cents anywhere else. That’s not bad? But to me it’s not compelling enough when you have to outlay $40,000 just to get their cheapest model. Charging your car still takes forever unless you go to a supercharger.

And Teslas have reliability problems and many owners complain of build quality. Look at this article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dri...ty-issues/amp/

Consumer Reports apparently removed their recommended label for Tesla too. I LOVE Elon Musk and his mission? But I am totally impartial to anyone. And frankly I’m disappointed that all these years later they’re still building meh electric sports cars that most can’t afford. So much for changing the world :/

Actually Texas has incentives [[I don't know all the nitty gritty details) that allow FREE EV charging during off-peak times! I'm not sure if other states or utilities have as generous of an incentive as the one I linked to, but I'm pretty sure many utilities offer cheaper rates for charging EVs and you can schedule a charge when rates are lower at night.
https://www.mp2energy.com/residential-electric-vehicle/
Most EV owners will charge at home when needed and only use superchargers for long road trips. It will take a little bit longer than filling up with gasoline, but Tesla's have incredible infotainment options to keep you entertained while using a supercharger.

I agree that Tesla needs to get a handle on quality issues, if it isn't addressed it will REALLY hurt the company. Nobody wants to spend that much money on a product only to have to deal with quality issues.

[313WX]

He's just playing the game that nearly everyone else plays when it comes to getting tax breaks. There are countless examples of companies doing this, it isn't unique to Tesla and Elon Musk.

Including the darlings GM, Ford and Rocket Companies.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...s-uses-n-word/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...nt/3208781001/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ent/629505002/

[Dmberko11]

Actually Texas has incentives [[I don't know all the nitty gritty details) that allow FREE EV charging during off-peak times! I'm not sure if other states or utilities have as generous of an incentive as the one I linked to, but I'm pretty sure many utilities offer cheaper rates for charging EVs and you can schedule a charge when rates are lower at night.
https://www.mp2energy.com/residential-electric-vehicle/
Most EV owners will charge at home when needed and only use superchargers for long road trips. It will take a little bit longer than filling up with gasoline, but Tesla's have incredible infotainment options to keep you entertained while using a supercharger.

I agree that Tesla needs to get a handle on quality issues, if it isn't addressed it will REALLY hurt the company. Nobody wants to spend that much money on a product only to have to deal with quality issues.

That’s pretty great, if true, about the free charging during non-peak hours. Definitely sweetens the deal!
I’m simply in the camp of “I’m not going to spend $40,000+” on a silly car to “save the planet,” how selfish of me! Lol. I wouldn’t spend that much money on a car, period. Until they make them more affordable for the masses we’re still going to have excess greenhouse emissions.

Here in Austin I saw someone driving a brand new Tesla for Dominoes pizza delivery. That gave me a chuckle. They’re as common as seeing a Prius on the road here. 🤯

[Satiricalivory]

He's just playing the game that nearly everyone else plays when it comes to getting tax breaks. There are countless examples of companies doing this, it isn't unique to Tesla and Elon Musk.

No, Musk has set historical records in this country for the amount of incentives and grants he has received from the government. It was the whole reason Bezos had the HQ contest, he was jealous of Musk getting literally billions of dollars in public money. Tesla would have dissolved many years ago if this wasn't the case since it makes no annual profit.

GM, Ford, and Quicken are all home grown highly profitable titans of industry that produce tons of ongoing wealth for the state.

[Wheels]

There will be an abundance of used tesla’s on the market in another 5 years at the most. You won’t be able to give them away!

[Mind field]

No, Musk has set historical records in this country for the amount of incentives and grants he has received from the government. It was the whole reason Bezos had the HQ contest, he was jealous of Musk getting literally billions of dollars in public money. Tesla would have dissolved many years ago if this wasn't the case since it makes no annual profit.

You're going to have to provide a source for that claim. Otherwise I don't think it's accurate.