Welcome to the Reality of DEFUNDING Policing...

[aj3647]

So I'm assuming you can't come up with a good reason why Obama did nothing for a year while some sort of "review" was conducted. Camp Delta was built by Navy Seabees and contractors in three months. When the president, and armed forces, want to get something done, they get it done fast. When the president doesn't want something done, he has a year-long "study" conducted.

Hey, like I said, you got it all figured out, Sport! I'm agreeing with you! You know exactly how the military works from your years of honorable service, I'm sure. And yes, when the President wants something done quickly, he just tells the military to do it and it's done overnight, which is exactly why we have a 40ft tall Big Beautiful solid concrete wall spanning 2000 miles of our Southern Border as we speak! Trump came in on Day One and said "Get it Done!" and IT DID! Like MAGIC, baby! Just like that, that's how these things work! But you already know that.

[JBMcB]

Hey, like I said, you got it all figured out, Sport! I'm agreeing with you! You know exactly how the military works from your years of honorable service, I'm sure.

Your substance-less post is telling. Did you read the New Yorker article? They couldn't figure out why Obama was slow-walking the closure, either. Crap, Obama himself said he should have closed it immediately. But, you know, it was important until it wasn't. People there don't vote.

[aj3647]

Your substance-less post is telling. Did you read the New Yorker article? They couldn't figure out why Obama was slow-walking the closure, either. Crap, Obama himself said he should have closed it immediately. But, you know, it was important until it wasn't. People there don't vote.

That's a great point and again, I'm 100% AGREEING with you, Champ! Which just makes it all the more mysterious why we don't have a Wall on the Southern Border right now. Shouldn't Trump have just come in on Day One and said "BUILD IT" and the military [[which again, you totally served in and are an expert on) would jump to and it would all be built by now? I guess it just was important until it wasn't, after all, walls don't vote.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, the town of Niles, MI [[population ~11,000) received an MRAP from the federal government in 2016. Explain why a town of 11,000 needs an MRAP. In case Indiana invades Southwest Michigan? Well they won't now, because Niles has an MRAP!

[Wheels]

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, the town of Niles, MI [[population ~11,000) received an MRAP from the federal government in 2016. Explain why a town of 11,000 needs an MRAP. In case Indiana invades Southwest Michigan? Well they won't now, because Niles has an MRAP!

Well they are only a few miles from Gary a shithole run by democrats!

[aj3647]

Well they are only a few miles from Gary a shithole run by democrats!

They are 65 miles apart, or about an hour and fifteen minute drive according to Google Maps.

Just a few miles though, right Cletus?

[JBMcB]

Which just makes it all the more mysterious why we don't have a Wall on the Southern Border right now.

Your contention is that building a 500 mile long wall, with no funding support, in the middle of a desert, and probably having to use eminent domain to grab a bunch of private land to do so, is the same amount of effort as transferring military prisoners from one military prison to another military prison? I'm guessing you didn't read the article, and I have a good idea why.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, the town of Niles, MI [[population ~11,000) received an MRAP from the federal government in 2016. Explain why a town of 11,000 needs an MRAP. In case Indiana invades Southwest Michigan? Well they won't now, because Niles has an MRAP!

I understand the logic before de-funding the police, but de-funding the military would have a MUCH larger impact, and knock-on effects of demilitarizing the police. Of course, that would mean an end to involving ourselves in pointless wars, and plopping military bases absolutely everywhere. That would make certain corporate interests very unhappy. Check out what happens when Trump tries winding down troops in Afghanistan and Germany.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/02/...n-and-germany/

[Wheels]

They are 65 miles apart, or about an hour and fifteen minute drive according to Google Maps.

Just a few miles though, right Cletus?

Maybe if your driving the Beverly Hillbilly truck Jethro.

[aj3647]

Your contention is that building a 500 mile long wall, with no funding support, in the middle of a desert, and probably having to use eminent domain to grab a bunch of private land to do so, is the same amount of effort as transferring military prisoners from one military prison to another military prison?

Camp Delta was built by Navy Seabees and contractors in three months. When the president, and armed forces, want to get something done, they get it done fast. That would include a wall. You honestly think the military didn't already have a half-dozen contingency plans for building a border wall?

I understand the logic before de-funding the police, but de-funding the military would have a MUCH larger impact, and knock-on effects of demilitarizing the police.

Or, you know, every podunk bumfuck town and village in the state of Michigan does not need to equip its police officers with armored vehicles like they're patrolling the streets of wartime Baghdad. I don't know why this is such a controversial hot take, but several of you seem to think so and want to argue it with me. Mt Morris, MI [[population 3000) also requested an MRAP, but I think their application was denied. Does that make you sad that a town of 3000 doesn't have a police force equipped with armored fighting vehicles like they're the 101st Airborne Division?

Because it really seems like some of you want to live in a full-on Police State.

[aj3647]

Maybe if your driving the Beverly Hillbilly truck Jethro.

Just calling you out on your bullshit. Keep flinging your feces though, Maurice, eventually something will stick.

[Wheels]

No problem Bubba just don’t through shade or clap back at me!

[enio]

Camp Delta was built by Navy Seabees and contractors in three months. When the president, and armed forces, want to get something done, they get it done fast. That would include a wall. You honestly think the military didn't already have a half-dozen contingency plans for building a border wall?



Or, you know, every podunk bumfuck town and village in the state of Michigan does not need to equip its police officer with armored vehicles like they're patrolling the streets of wartime Baghdad. I don't know why this is such a controversial hot take, but several of you seem to think so and want to argue it with me. Mt Morris, MI [[population 3000) also requested an MRAP, but I think their application was denied. Does that make you sad that a town of 3000 doesn't have a police force equipped with armored fighting vehicles like they're the 101st Airborne Division?

Because it really seems like some of you want to live in a full-on Police State.

It makes no sense to keep the Guantanamo jail open . It only houses about 40 prisoners. The cost per prisoner is outrageous. It is almost 13 million dollars per prisoner per year. If the US is going to keep these men locked up, they should be moved to a jail in this country.

[JBMcB]

Camp Delta was built by Navy Seabees and contractors in three months. When the president, and armed forces, want to get something done, they get it done fast. That would include a wall when it is all on military property and it's funded by anti-terrorism slush funds, but the proposed wall cuts through state and private land and is unfunded, so that isn't a good analogy.

There, fixed it for you.

Or, you know, every podunk bumfuck town and village in the state of Michigan does not need to equip its police officers with armored vehicles like they're patrolling the streets of wartime Baghdad.

I agree 100%. However, instead of preventing police from buying military surplus, I'd prefer the military not even have surplus to sell in the first place. Those MRAPs were a boondoggle from the beginning. Know what else is mine-resistant? The M2 armored personnel carrier. But why use something you have when you can buy something new at a huge cost, then replace that a few years later? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that the Cougar factory was in South Carolina, home to Lindsay Graham, who was on the Senate armed services committee. But then again, what the heck do I know about the armed forces?

[Ray1936]

Boy, the original purpose of this thread really went off the rails. Getting to be all too 'normal' on DetroitYes.

[aj3647]

There, fixed it for you.

Not really, those are just excuses, which is what you accused Obama of offering up for not closing GITMO.

Excuse #1: Border land is privately owned!
Why that's bullshit: Some of it, yes. Upwards of 40% of the border is FEDERAL land. And yet, most of that does not have a Big Beautiful 40ft tall wall spanning it 3.5 years in. So why does the federally-controlled border not have every square inch covered in Wall? Excuses excuses...

Excuse #2: The wall didn't have dedicated funding!
Why that's bullshit: This is true, however it didn't stop Trump from just raiding Pentagon construction funds to pay for part of it, by executive fiat, which is presumably something he could have also done on January 21, 2017 since no one in Congress sees fit to hold him accountable for doing something illegal. Just more excuses, he could have done that on Day One.

Or perhaps I am over-simplifying a complex issue, which is EXACTLY what you did with your BS "Obama could have closed GITMO with a snap of his fingers" asinine suggestion. For starters, moving them to American soil would have granted them new legal avenues and protections, so closing Guantanamo poses a string of legal and security issues, including how to charge and try inmates on American soil, which prisoners would be transferred and which would be released or custody given to a third country, which would receive trials and which would not, etc.

Hence the need for a comprehensive review. Which, BTW, you can read here. See, it kind of helps to plan for something before you do it, instead of the reverse, which is what the Trump Admin does for many things which then blow up in its face. But you know that, Colonel. I'm calling you Colonel because I assume you are one, given your vast expertise on the American Armed Forces.

[Honky Tonk]

Well, that didn't take long.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-lea...154707836.html

[bust]

There are many good cops who serve an essential role in society. There are many who aren't, and don't. Among the rest of us there are many who have strong general opinions one way or the other; there are countless examples both ways.

It's important to consider police in their historical context. Police forces evolved largely from slave patrols organized by slave owners to capture escaped slaves and suppress slave revolts. Most don't know this, not even among the police.

If this aspect of our history were not so consistently omitted perhaps fewer would deny the brutal racism at the root of policing, and fewer would be surprised to finally have been forced to come to terms with it today, so late.

[bust]

BTW The term "defunding" arose from the protests and its appeal is limited, largely because it is confused with "abolishing" [[right wing pundits conflate these terms intentionally).

What sensible people are talking about is not abolishing the police, it's redirecting some of the vast funds currently earmarked for policing toward alternatives that are more effective and less expensive.

Most cops have little or no training and interest in handling mental health, drug overdose, and domestic disturbance situations. Let others with that training and interest handle those calls. They'll do it better, and cost less.

And many believe it would often be more just, effective and less expensive for police to first employ de-escalation techniques rather than the extremely confrontational militarized approaches we've seen.

That's not unreasonable, is it?

[Zacha341]

Yep. And it depends on which groups or sub-group or factions.

Early on once down my block a not too far away so tiny crowd marched, bull-horn and all chanting 'FU@K the POLICE!' Again and again. I think they wanted less than a pay cut. I think some were 'visitors'......

As I've said before if someone were to ASK most residence of MOST CITIES they reasonably do not want the disbanding of the police departments. And crime has gone up whatever side of the politics you want to support.

So intentionally or not, who agrees or not. we indeed need better training especially in the apprehension factors. That's reasonable to me!

BTW The term "defunding" arose from the protests and its appeal is limited, largely because it is confused with "abolishing" [[right wing pundits conflate these terms intentionally).

What sensible people are talking about is not abolishing the police, it's redirecting some of the vast funds currently earmarked for policing toward alternatives that are more effective and less expensive....

[Honky Tonk]

Yep. And it depends on which groups or sub-group or factions.

Early on once down my block a not too far away so tiny crowd marched, bull-horn and all chanting 'FU@K the POLICE!' Again and again. I think they wanted less than a pay cut. I think some were 'visitors'......

As I've said before if someone were to ASK most residence of MOST CITIES they reasonably do not want the disbanding of the police departments. And crime has gone up whatever side of the politics you want to support.

So intentionally or not, who agrees or not. we indeed need better training especially in the apprehension factors. That's reasonable to me!

You didn't even read the link I posted, did you?

[Zacha341]

^^^ Oh yeah I did. It's out of control. New York is bound in self-induced Poli-tricks! They best sort it out fast as some of their big tax paying, high-rise mortgage paying elite are taking a powder and leaving!

[JBMcB]

It's important to consider police in their historical context. Police forces evolved largely from slave patrols organized by slave owners to capture escaped slaves and suppress slave revolts.

Er, kinda sorta. The concept of a county sheriff predates the slave patrols by centuries, and was also a fixture in the colonies before the revolution. There were also volunteer groups called night watches to patrol villages at night. In the western states, towns would hire marshals. None of this had anything to do with slavery. In the southern colonies, and later states, slave patrols were absolutely a thing, and could be considered the forerunner of the modern police force. However, like many social systems in the US, the modern police force was more influenced by the formal police, or constabulary, system created in England at the time. This system was created as a response to the effects of industrialization, more than the needs of slavery, at the time, as formal slavery had already been abolished in England.

https://law.jrank.org/pages/1640/Pol...l-America.html

[Zacha341]

^^^ Good points! SO what's the proper context of policing going forth? We know, for example, to put it simply there are very bad people who do bad things; gang warfare, and plying violent means of securing that which is not theirs [[steal) etc. and some that just kill for the thrill.

The 'NO POLICE' demands's cool on board on a stick but not workable real-life.

[bust]

Er, kinda sorta. The concept of a county sheriff predates the slave patrols by centuries, and was also a fixture in the colonies before the revolution. There were also volunteer groups called night watches to patrol villages at night. In the western states, towns would hire marshals. None of this had anything to do with slavery. In the southern colonies, and later states, slave patrols were absolutely a thing, and could be considered the forerunner of the modern police force. However, like many social systems in the US, the modern police force was more influenced by the formal police, or constabulary, system created in England at the time. This system was created as a response to the effects of industrialization, more than the needs of slavery, at the time, as formal slavery had already been abolished in England.

https://law.jrank.org/pages/1640/Pol...l-America.html

Yes, I summarized, and said "largely."

But we should note the Carolina colonies formed the first slave patrol in 1704, 134 years before Boston formed the first American police force in 1838. An article from Eastern Kentucky University explains:

The History of Policing in the United States, Part I
https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook...-states-part-1

And from the article you shared, the first duty of those early American police forces was "controlling slaves and Indians." The North had them too.

[pjbear05]

It makes no sense to keep the Guantanamo jail open . It only houses about 40 prisoners. The cost per prisoner is outrageous. It is almost 13 million dollars per prisoner per year. If the US is going to keep these men locked up, they should be moved to a jail in this country.

Why are they there in the first place? If they're that damn dangerous or subversive, put them in the Supermax in Florence, CO, and be done with it.

[Bigdd]

Why are they there in the first place? If they're that damn dangerous or subversive, put them in the Supermax in Florence, CO, and be done with it.

Just guessing here,.. but it may not be an issue of them being so dangerous or subversive, but rather one of them not gaining due-process that we give people here [[even non-citizens).