Quicken Loans Rumored to be Going Public

**7miledog** · June-11-20, 07:41 PM

Thoughts on the effect this will have on Detroit?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...es/5346535002/

**Gistok** · June-11-20, 07:57 PM

Since he owns Quicken Loans without partners [[I believe?)... "10's of billions" that he would get in an IPO would by far make him the richest billionaire in Michigan. Right now the Meijer's are the richest at $7 billion, and Gilbert and the Ilitches are almost tied at $6 billion for 2nd/3rd spot.

He could still maintain majority ownership and be worth tens of billions.

If he still wants to put all his "eggs" in the Detroit basket... it could be mind boggling the amount of additional investing he could do here.

**Atticus** · June-11-20, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Since he owns Quicken Loans without partners [[I believe?)... "10's of billions" that he would get in an IPO would by far make him the richest billionaire in Michigan. Right now the Meijer's are the richest at $7 billion, and Gilbert and the Ilitches are almost tied at $6 billion for 2nd/3rd spot.

He could still maintain majority ownership and be worth tens of billions.

If he still wants to put all his "eggs" in the Detroit basket... it could be mind boggling the amount of additional investing he could do here.

Mixed feelings. I hope the IPO would not include Bedrock [[Quicken only). Anytime a business goes public, the business becomes beholden to quicker profits as demanded by the shareholders. Thus some of Gilbert’s long term strategies become more difficult under a publicly traded setup, as the investors may not share the same patience. And Detroit needs more of that long term patience and vision.

**Satiricalivory** · June-11-20, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

Mixed feelings. I hope the IPO would not include Bedrock [[Quicken only).

This obviously does not include Bedrock otherwise it would be Rock Ventures going public not Quicken Loans. All his other companies are separate.

**313WX** · June-12-20, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

This obviously does not include Bedrock otherwise it would be Rock Ventures going public not Quicken Loans. All his other companies are separate.

To clarify, while they are technically separate legal entities for taxation and regulation purposes, Quicken Loans and his other companies are all officially subsidiaries of Rock Ventures. They have to seek approval from Rock Ventures when making decisiond and their financials are consolidated into Rock's.

So Quicken Loans alone going public would, in effect, be a spin-off.

**davewindsor** · June-17-20, 10:34 AM

If it goes public, what stops them from moving back to Livonia or even to Texas like Comerica where taxes are cheaper and taking their employees with them? Does downtown revert back to the pre-Gilbert days?

**JonWylie** · June-17-20, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

If it goes public, what stops them from moving back to Livonia or even to Texas like Comerica where taxes are cheaper and taking their employees with them? Does downtown revert back to the pre-Gilbert days?

People need to stop confusing going public with completely giving up control of a company. Gilbert can and should retain majority control in the company and thus control the board.

**313WX** · June-17-20, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by JonWylie

People need to stop confusing going public with completely giving up control of a company. Gilbert can and should retain majority control in the company and thus control the board.

But that doesn't mean he will. And even if he did, he would still have to answer to shareholdees when making decisions.

**Satiricalivory** · June-17-20, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

If it goes public, what stops them from moving back to Livonia or even to Texas like Comerica where taxes are cheaper and taking their employees with them? Does downtown revert back to the pre-Gilbert days?

A move would cost them millions of dollars and big talent losses which is the exact opposite of what shareholders want. Some of you act like there are no publicly traded companies in Detroit. I mean come on, I'm really rolling my eyes here now.

**Richard** · June-17-20, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

A move would cost them millions of dollars and big talent losses which is the exact opposite of what shareholders want. Some of you act like there are no publicly traded companies in Detroit. I mean come on, I'm really rolling my eyes here now.

Why roll the eyes,is ones speculative thoughts better then another’s?

**davewindsor** · June-17-20, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

A move would cost them millions of dollars and big talent losses which is the exact opposite of what shareholders want. Some of you act like there are no publicly traded companies in Detroit. I mean come on, I'm really rolling my eyes here now.

If it's the opposite of what shareholders want, why did they let Comerica Bank move their HQ to Dallas after growing its roots in Detroit for over 150 years? Any loss of dollars in a move would easily be recovered from the savings in Dallas not having city or state income taxes. And why wouldn't big talent move to Dallas? Big talent would also save money by not paying city or state income taxes in such a move. Right back at ya, you act like there are no publicly traded companies that left Detroit to save on taxes. Eyes roll.

**Satiricalivory** · June-17-20, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

Eyes roll.

A company that's doing well is not going to uproot their main staff for no reason that's how you drive a business into the ground and go bankrupt and I think the vast majority of people at Quicken are well rooted in Michigan. A great amount are not going to pick up and move that's just logistics and makes no sense for a company to do that for no reason, especially a company that just finished a massive office addition to their building. What ever would be saved in taxes long term would not be worth the disruption. Plus states like Texas have other sorts of taxes to make up their money.

The publicly traded bank Chemical not only moved to the city but brought their merger to Detroit as well. I guess there is indeed some value being headquartered in Detroit and leadership who want to remain here.

**Scottathew** · June-11-20, 08:19 PM

Wow, that's big news. I have no idea if it's a good or bad thing. If Gilbert is the person we hope he is it might mean more money for the things he want to do in Detroit. Perhaps he wants to cement his name in history.

Keep in mind that he has sold and bought back QL before with the Intuit deal.

**Satiricalivory** · June-11-20, 08:33 PM

I'm pretty sure he's been the richest man in Michigan for awhile now. Last I heard he's worth 8 Billion.

**313WX** · June-12-20, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

I'm pretty sure he's been the richest man in Michigan for awhile now. Last I heard he's worth 8 Billion.

You are correct about him already being the richest man in the state

**401don** · June-12-20, 07:05 AM

Not sure if it's feasible because I'm not a finance guy but is there any way for Gilbert to set it up like Ford where the family controls the company through its preferred voting shares?

**Lowell** · June-13-20, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Not sure if it's feasible because I'm not a finance guy but is there any way for Gilbert to set it up like Ford where the family controls the company through its preferred voting shares?

And like the Ford's he wouldn't even have to have a majority of the shares to retain control.

This will likely be a HUGE IPO--$100 billion Plus? I'd be tempted to jump in on this one--this is a booming and rising company. Consider this comparison to Wells Fargo, a stumbling company whose market capitalization is still $114 Billion, even with its share value down 50%+ from over a year ago.

"In 2019, Quicken Loans funded $145.8 billion in mortgages overall [[per Inside Mortgage Finance), placing it second behind Wells Fargo’s $201.8 billion in overall funded volume.

"And on IMF’s 2019 retail-only mortgage fundings list [[which excludes certain sales channels), Quicken Loans funded $142.8 billion placing it above Wells Fargo’s $94.25 billion. Plus, Quicken Loans beat Wells in overall mortgage fundings for Q1 2020 [[$61.7 billion vs. $47.6 billion).
https://www.housingwire.com/articles...es-cool-again/

**Richard** · June-12-20, 07:52 AM

"We don’t comment on speculation or rumor," said Aaron Walker, chief communications officer for Gilbert's Rock Ventures, which serves and connects Gilbert’s portfolio of more than 100 companies.

So based on speculation and rumors it is already a done deal?

**313WX** · June-12-20, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

"We don’t comment on speculation or rumor," said Aaron Walker, chief communications officer for Gilbert's Rock Ventures, which serves and connects Gilbert’s portfolio of more than 100 companies.

So based on speculation and rumors it is already a done deal?

As I'm sure you know, typically this type of news is leaked intentionally when it's virtually all but certain to happen in order to get a feel of how people will react.

**iheartthed** · June-12-20, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

Thoughts on the effect this will have on Detroit?

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...es/5346535002/

Probably not much.

**Gistok** · June-12-20, 02:45 PM

^^

What??

Dan Gilbert could get 10's of billions of dollars in CASH... and you don't think it might help Detroit??

Dan Gilbert signed the same pact as Bill & Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet... to give away their money to philanthropy. With Dan Gilbert... charity [[of sorts) always begins at home.

Just look at how much help the late Ralph Wilson [[of Grosse Pte. Shores) is doing for Detroit and Buffalo. His legacy [[$1.2 billion fortune) is being given away to both cities within 20 years... at the tune of about $50 million yearly to each city. Wilson's charity is paying entirely for that park on the west side with the inlet and beach.

Dan Gilbert could do sooooo much with his money to help Detroit... even besides the rehabilitation [[and building) of over 100 buildings downtown.

Selling a chunk of Quicken Loans could do so much more for Detroit... if he so chooses.

He had a near death experience in 2019... and maybe his outlook on life is not to work himself to death... but to do good and leave a legacy to the city he loves.

I may be way overly optimistic... but there is a lot he could do for the city he loves.

**iheartthed** · June-13-20, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

^^

What??

Dan Gilbert could get 10's of billions of dollars in CASH... and you don't think it might help Detroit??

Dan Gilbert signed the same pact as Bill & Melinda Gates and Warren Buffet... to give away their money to philanthropy. With Dan Gilbert... charity [[of sorts) always begins at home.

Just look at how much help the late Ralph Wilson [[of Grosse Pte. Shores) is doing for Detroit and Buffalo. His legacy [[$1.2 billion fortune) is being given away to both cities within 20 years... at the tune of about $50 million yearly to each city. Wilson's charity is paying entirely for that park on the west side with the inlet and beach.

Dan Gilbert could do sooooo much with his money to help Detroit... even besides the rehabilitation [[and building) of over 100 buildings downtown.

Selling a chunk of Quicken Loans could do so much more for Detroit... if he so chooses.

He had a near death experience in 2019... and maybe his outlook on life is not to work himself to death... but to do good and leave a legacy to the city he loves.

I may be way overly optimistic... but there is a lot he could do for the city he loves.

He doesn't have to take the company public to sell stakes in the company, but they have calculated that an IPO is the best way to raise money right now. Also, this type of IPO is different from IPOs that we see in tech, because so much of Quicken is held by Gilbert himself. With tech companies, a lot of the company is usually owned by employees, so a large IPO can create 100s of millionaires at once. I don't think many Quicken employees actually hold a stake in the company, so it's hard to see how this really changes the dynamic.

**Gistok** · June-13-20, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

He doesn't have to take the company public to sell stakes in the company, but they have calculated that an IPO is the best way to raise money right now. Also, this type of IPO is different from IPOs that we see in tech, because so much of Quicken is held by Gilbert himself. With tech companies, a lot of the company is usually owned by employees, so a large IPO can create 100s of millionaires at once. I don't think many Quicken employees actually hold a stake in the company, so it's hard to see how this really changes the dynamic.

Um... unless I misunderstood your comment... him ALONE having TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars in extra disposable cash... definitely DOES change the dynamic.... of developing Detroit!

He could build any building he wants to without any banks involved [[no pre-leasing required!).

He could buy any company that suits his fancy [[not huge ones of course)... and relocate them to Detroit [[if he wants).

He could rebuild any neighborhood [[if he wants).

He could buy all that empty Ilitch property and build his own District Detroit.

When you have 10s of billions of dollars... you can do a lot!!

And still get to keep control of Quicken Loans!!

How is that not a win-win for Detroit... especially as the Freep said... he's doing this with the intention of what's best for Detroit [[as well lining his own pockets).

**iheartthed** · June-13-20, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Um... unless I misunderstood your comment... him ALONE having TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars in extra disposable cash... definitely DOES change the dynamic.... of developing Detroit!

He could build any building he wants to without any banks involved [[no pre-leasing required!).

He could buy any company that suits his fancy [[not huge ones of course)... and relocate them to Detroit [[if he wants).

He could rebuild any neighborhood [[if he wants).

He could buy all that empty Ilitch property and build his own District Detroit.

When you have 10s of billions of dollars... you can do a lot!!

And still get to keep control of Quicken Loans!!

How is that not a win-win for Detroit... especially as the Freep said... he's doing this with the intention of what's best for Detroit [[as well lining his own pockets).

He won't have 10s of billions of cash on hand unless he sells his stake and loses control of his company.

I'm still firm in my opinion that this doesn't change much for Detroit. A game changer would be an IPO that converted a bunch of employees into millionaires, like what often happens when a Silicon Valley tech company IPOs. And when Quicken does IPO, it won't even be close to being the largest publicly traded company headquartered in Detroit.

**Gistok** · June-13-20, 12:58 PM

I know some of you feel that he already owns a disproportionate amount of Detroit real estate... but would you really rather he spend his soon to be gotten extra tens of billions elsewhere??

I don't think so. He could be our 21st century version of Henry Ford...

My mentor and friend [[and also good friend of Lowell)... the late Tony Pieroni once told me that the problem that downtown Detroit [[as well as the rest of the city) has is that there is not enough money here to do the things to make Detroit great again. Well if Dan Gilbert gets his hands on a vast sum of money, and truly loves this city... then Detroit has hope again. Money... and the jobs that it can create, are a powerful tool to bring the city and region back as a powerhouse. It just needs vision and ingenuity... and of course money! .... lord knows we already have the infrastructure...