Minneapolis LEO kneeling on neck of black man That died...

[Canadian Visitor]

It's pretty funny that a group of leftist, fascists refer to themselves as "Antifa". LOL Fascism always comes from the left. Hitler for example was a socialist, and a failed art student. Ended up head of the national socialist workers party.


I just got off the phone with a black minister in Minneapolis. He's busy trying to calm the crowds. A bit pissed and embarrassed that the opportunists are looting and burning. [[perhaps not the police department,. but what the heck does Target have to do with the killing?)


Sure hope the body-cam videos get released soon. It usually has a calming effect.

Fascism, by definition is the hard right.

Its based on crony capitalism.

You can look it up.

No, let me do it for you.

From Wikipedia:

Fascism [[/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism^[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy^[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.^[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries.^[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.<sup>[4][5][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism</sup>

[Canadian Visitor]

If you wish to critique the political centre or left for its failings that's fine. But don't misrepresent what terms mean.

It aligns you with people who think facts are subjective.

They're not.

You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

[Richard]

What do you expect from a bunch of spoiled self-righteous white Democrat kids?

You know,when I first started watching the videos,my first thought was,where the hell did all of these white kids come from so fast and what are they doing in that neighborhood.

Then I remember how far the twin cities has really fallen off of the progressive liberal cliff.

They had a good run for a few years but as soon as they kicked the conservative dems out they are intent on destroying everything that was accomplished in the past.

As soon as they imported all the Somalis there it was the end of half of the city,the police should just pull out and call it a no go zone like they do in other countries.

They do not refer it to little Mogadishu for nothing.

How come nobody was practicing proper social distancing,clearly they care little about others lives.

[Richard]

If you wish to critique the political centre or left for its failings that's fine. But don't misrepresent what terms mean.

It aligns you with people who think facts are subjective.
They're not.



You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts.

You do not think facts are subjective?

It was considered a fact that the world was flat,do we still hold true to that ?

[Bigdd]

Fascism, by definition is the hard right.


From Wikipedia:

Fascism [[/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism^[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy^[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.^[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries.^[4] Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.<sup>[4][5][6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism</sup>

Um, no. That's just what someone wrote on Wiki.

It's also what the leftist fascists want you to believe.


It's actually a lot closer to Socialism and Communism, but instead of the government owning and controlling the means of production, private industry still exists, but the government dictates what it can produce [[think Obama and Obamacare).

Mussolini [[a Socialist) was there at the beginning,... and yes they did kill off a lot of the socialist party,.. but that's not because he suddenly became a conservative. Rather the point was to get rid of the current ruling party [[which happened to be the socialist party in Italy at the time) and institute themselves as dictators, and squash all opposing viewpoints [[like what the left and the media do today, using ridicule and even violence to squash all other viewpoints).

[Richard]

Here is a video of the reaction in Las Angeles.

https://abc7.com/6215968/

I still say we should give every LEO across America a 60 day leave of absence at the same time,so they can take some time to think about their actions.

Maybe send them all to the Bahamas,so they will not be distracted here.

Floyd had been handcuffed for allegedly passing a phony $20 bill at the corner store. He refused to get into a squad car and was "intentionally falling down," saying he was claustrophobic and struggling to breathe, according to the complaint.
The medical examiner found no evidence that Floyd died from traumatic asphyxia or strangulation, the complaint said.
Instead, Floyd had coronary artery and hypertensive heart disease and, “the combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death," according to the complaint.

Now when the facts come out,how many here posted that he was chocked to death and the officer killed him with his knee by strangulation?.

They saw it with their own eyes.

They did arrest him on murder charges to appease the crowd but when it goes to trial it will be based on what percentage they determined he caused.

And apparently they have not received the toxicology results back yet which will also play a role.

The police should really just determine high risk neighborhoods and stop responding to calls,it would save a lot of headaches and lives by the looks of it.

[Meddle]

Sooooo, the Coroner threw a monkey wrench in the works?

[Johnnny5]

Floyd had been handcuffed for allegedly passing a phony $20 bill at the corner store. He refused to get into a squad car and was "intentionally falling down," saying he was claustrophobic and struggling to breathe, according to the complaint.
The medical examiner found no evidence that Floyd died from traumatic asphyxia or strangulation, the complaint said.
Instead, Floyd had coronary artery and hypertensive heart disease and, “the combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death," according to the complaint.

I'm normally one to give officers the benefit of the doubt, but even I have to question why such force was being used in this case. There's no visible weapon, little to no violent resistance and there's 4 cops on scene and only one suspect. It was plainly obvious the man was under medical distress, and even if the officers thought that he was faking he was already on the ground and handcuffed. Why was such an effort being made to hold him on the ground?


As it stands now these cops are in trouble. Even if the death was a result of a pre existing medical condition they're going to have to convince a jury that the amount of force they were using was reasonable, and unless there's something substantial that we're missing that's going to be a very hard sell.

[Honky Tonk]

I'm normally one to give officers the benefit of the doubt, but even I have to question why such force was being used in this case. There's no visible weapon, little to no violent resistance and there's 4 cops on scene and only one suspect. It was plainly obvious the man was under medical distress, and even if the officers thought that he was faking he was already on the ground and handcuffed. Why was such an effort being made to hold him on the ground?


As it stands now these cops are in trouble. Even if the death was a result of a pre existing medical condition they're going to have to convince a jury that the amount of force they were using was reasonable, and unless there's something substantial that we're missing that's going to be a very hard sell.

I agree. Unless I can see that he was an escape threat or a threat to the officers lives, this was total excess. I also don't have a problem with a protest. What I do have a problem with is creating a riot, looting and burning businesses that had nothing to do with this. Were these businesses serving the local community they were in? Did these businesses hire local community members to work in them? What's the point? Good luck getting someone to reopen in that community.

[Richard]

I'm normally one to give officers the benefit of the doubt, but even I have to question why such force was being used in this case. There's no visible weapon, little to no violent resistance and there's 4 cops on scene and only one suspect. It was plainly obvious the man was under medical distress, and even if the officers thought that he was faking he was already on the ground and handcuffed. Why was such an effort being made to hold him on the ground?


As it stands now these cops are in trouble. Even if the death was a result of a pre existing medical condition they're going to have to convince a jury that the amount of force they were using was reasonable, and unless there's something substantial that we're missing that's going to be a very hard sell.

It says it in the link,he refused to get in the car and was intentionally falling down so they could not get him in the car.

1st video shows he was resisting and they had to pull him out of the drivers seat.

2 cases of resisting arrest

Intentionally falling down so they could not place him in the car,if he was faking at that point why would the officer think differently and start to believe him once restrained.

I am speculating the reason he was pinned down was because he refused to get in the car and they were waiting for back up in order to hog tie him,or they had called medical services and were restraining him until they arrived.

Things that do not add up to me anyways

He was a regular at the store,those stores have a repore with their regulars and it is not uncommon for people to try and pass fake money or altered bills,he had to do something really messed up for them to call the police,like either threaten the clerk.

He was a big guy.

In the video somebody in the background said,this is where drugs get you

Everybody knows everybody in the hood..

He was driving a Mercedes Benz suv but employed as a helper at a bistro.

So he has health problems,intoxicated and who knows what else in his system,being faced with jail again after already serving 5 years in prison.

So his heart rate was probably a mile a minute to start with and he is looking at a federal crime of passing altered or fake money,he clearly did not want to go back to jail.

He would have been better off stealing what he wanted then to try and pass fake money,that made it federal verses a misdemeanor where he would have seen no jail time.

So he resisted arrest twice,tried to pass counterfeit money/altered bills and the cop killed him?

The police are not medics,they can only go by what happened in the time frame and they were given every reason to believe he was not telling the truth and continued to resist.

I think if it comes back that they had called for medical while he was restrained they cannot be held responsible for his unknown medical conditions that may have resulted in his death.

Thats what they will look at,could they have prevented his death and to what extent did they have culpability.

People are saying poor guy but yet claiming murder based on no facts,the mayor from day one claimed murder based on no facts,he did just as much to create the violence and encourage it as the ones doing the actual rioting across the country.

People already made their minds up,white cop killed the black man.

That is the only thing they want to see,nobody wants justice like they say they do.

True justice involves both sides.

The easiest solution would have been for him to just get out of the car when asked and took his medicine.

Its 2020 in Minneapolis,you can rob and rape all day long and get a slap in the wrist these days,he probably would have gotten a ticket and been sent on his way.

He choose to escalate it and now everybody else pays the price for his stupidity.

How come my white privilege does not excuse me from the consequences from my actions,that is racist in itself.

[oladub]

Um, no. That's just what someone wrote on Wiki.

It's also what the leftist fascists want you to believe.


It's actually a lot closer to Socialism and Communism, but instead of the government owning and controlling the means of production, private industry still exists, but the government dictates what it can produce [[think Obama and Obamacare).

Mussolini [[a Socialist) was there at the beginning,... and yes they did kill off a lot of the socialist party,.. but that's not because he suddenly became a conservative. Rather the point was to get rid of the current ruling party [[which happened to be the socialist party in Italy at the time) and institute themselves as dictators, and squash all opposing viewpoints [[like what the left and the media do today, using ridicule and even violence to squash all other viewpoints).

Fascism can be defined in many ways. Nobel winning economist Friedrich Hayek, an escapee from Nazi Germany, wrote about it. His points included that fascism can take different forms and sometimes goes away. At the core of any fascism though is economic fascism or corporatism: the collusion of big government and big business. I see a lot of that being promoted by both the Democratic Party, championing government control, and many Republicans championing big corporations.

I liked this definition of fascism which is between Hayek's and wikipedia's.

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day [[the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.

Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it.....

[Jimaz]

George Floyd, Minneapolis Protests, Ahmaud Arbery & Amy Cooper
The Daily Social Distancing Show

[Jimaz]

Violent George Floyd protests at CNN Center unfold live on TV

[Zacha341]

Thanks, I was sent this yesterday. Domino effect indeed ala the Amy Cooper, the Corona Virus, the Floyd death, etc...

From the start onward to 3:00, 14:00 and 16:00 very compelling points. Excellent video! Well stated Trevor Noah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

[Canadian Visitor]

Really, there are three stories at play here in the broad sense.

One is about the excessive use of force by police; against anyone, though it happens disproportionately to visible minorities.

A second story is about economic inequality, which again exists with all demographics in American society [[and in most countries of the world to greater or less degrees). And how that inequality affects your relationship to the police and society writ large.

A final story is on racism itself; both the overt/conscious kind; but also those barriers that remain to people joining the middle class and to being treated more equally before the law etc.

You have the obvious, immediate issue that someone who was black, and low-income was mistreated by police, resulting in his death.

The truth is, if a white man was accused in Grosse Point of a passing a counterfeit bill that wouldn't even merit an in person response from a police uniform.

Maybe, a detective would follow-up, maybe, the next day, and then phone the person and ask them questions.

There would be no high-stakes takedown.

It would not even be remotely considered.

You could suggest if the person were intoxicated or belligerent.........

I would suggest to you it still wouldn't happen.

Because they wouldn't be belligerent on the phone the next day; and because you can't take someone down over the phone.

The entire circumstance comes out of how certain areas are policed differently from others; why those areas are as different as they are; and how police perceive people who look or sound or act a certain way.

I don't think the majority of police treat someone badly because they are black, per se.

Anymore than someone living in The Pointes gets a kid gloves treatment expressly because they are white.

What happens is that police are gentle in The Pointes, and as such people perceive them differently and treat them differently on the one hand; and on the other, they are relatively well off and can hire a lawyer.

When policing a poorer, minority neighbourhood; the tone is more confrontational; and lawyers are a less likely line of defense.

A police officer finding themselves in an area where they feel unwelcome; where they are an outsider in many cases; is more likely to be on edge and to over-react if provoked [[real or imagined).

Likewise, someone who has had nothing but bad experience with police, and who doesn't see anything good coming out of cooperation is more likely to be combative.

***

Beyond that, police cultures through much of the world; but among developed countries this does seem more acute in the U.S., tend towards an us/them mentality; and tend towards using force to resolve issues.

That is function of who gets recruited/hired; its a function of their education and how they are trained as police; and its one exacerbated by placing people w/the wrong attitude/training into already challenging situations which they tend to sustain or make worse.

Their experience then reinforces the bad practices.

***

The immediate issue is the disposition of a criminal case against all the officers in attendance at the scene of this man's death.

The larger, harder issue is tackling all the things that led to it happening; and which lead to similar issues on an on-going basis.

[Canadian Visitor]

Article on police shootings being a leading cause of death for young black men in the U.S.

Discusses a paper looking this issue; provides stats, worth a read.

https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...-for-black-men

[oladub]

Zacha, I watch very little television so I didn't know who the guy was although I've come across Trevor Noah's name. I watched the whole thing. Trevor Noah came across as intelligent and extremely thoughtful. As he went on, I realized that he was weaving an apologist's argument for the rampant thievery and arson going on in Minneapolis. I don't live in Detroit anymore and have to wonder how many residents who remained there are forever grateful for having their groceries and other stores decimated and are convinced that somehow that it was worth it. Interviewed looters or protesters on television imagining that destruction makes some sort of a point with onlookers seriously misjudge the onlookers' take and quiet response. Will these riots make viewers more or less likely to lock their doors or invest their money and families in Minneapolis after watching this? Trevor Noah doesn't seem to care if people in Minneapolis will be inconvenienced as Detroiters were as they watch their infrastructure and nice place being torn apart.

As an aside, liberals have a hard time saying "no". I suspect that is one reason why Covid-19 hit Democratic congressional districts so hard. In this case, they can't say 'no' to those destroying their infrastructure.

In critiquing the Minneapolis riots, I am careful to mention that whites make up a substantial portion of looters and possibly arsonists. This is nowhere near the race riot that the '67 riot in Detroit was. However, I have a contempt for the white idiots who dress up in black antifa clothes and trash infrastructure. They will move on after their little adventure to graduate from college and support Democrats from suburbs where stores haven't been burned down like in some hollowed out city. I am all for identifying white looters from all the security camera video, it it takes five years, and severely punishing them and suing their parents if possible. These white dweebs destroying black neighborhoods must think they are heroes. They aren't. The are just privileged brats who will probably be tomorrow's Democratic candidates looting and pillaging the Treasury in the name of whatever to feel good about themselves.

[Zacha341]

Awesome points Ola. Thoughtfully written. I don't get most of my news from the flat-screen, but I found Trevor on ytube a few months back. He unlike some from the left will show both sides of an argument.

I hear loud and clear as to some liberals inability to say no, particularly at the conflicting/ criss-cross traffic jams of their own intersectionality by-laws! I find this especially so with the far left. I've tried to point out blatant contractions in some of their arguments and they refuse to budge.

Yet these same groups and sub-groups seem to be able to say NO to what they decry... don't forget that! They just don't want to say 'no' to that which challenges what they want to do, have or believe. Such is the way of it. We find that on the right as well, though to a lesser degree IMO.

As you point out [[and I have said on this site) there remains a certain 'supremacy' [[not in my back yard) in that you can be your all-black wearing weekend radical-face-covered, returning to the safety of your dorms, suburbs, star-bucks, trader joes or nice job, persona come Monday.

Though that eh' safety and certainty has been somewhat disturbed ala C-19!

Police chief Craig made it clear, condemning folks [[criminals as he called them w/o apology) not living here, etc. protesting inappropriately. I recall thinking how stupid was it that Baltimore mayor Rawlings-Blake gave protestors 'room to destroy...' without any pushback. A clear GO message to rioters who always accompany those marching reasonably.

I'm sure she felt she was virtue-signally progressively in apposition to tear gas and german shepherds and far of the 60's and 70's and beyond. Got that.

Yet, protests have their place and have not always turned violent or destructive. As child of the civil-rights era, I know that marches and protests were and are an effective action to leverage change and provide awareness to injustices. Often with law enforcement going too far in response.

Public protest is the fabric of our democracy ala our freedom to speak 'as the language of the unheard' [[MLK), unlike in China and other places.

But as society has degenerated [[people are more poised than ever to GO-OFF!) protests will look less like those MLK lead. That is in part of the 'hate and lawlessness that has bread hate and lawlessness' factor. SO here we are. On top of a pandemic!

So IMO, there's no honor in burning down your city, and I wander what percent of those that choose to do that are watching a Trevor Noah per se. He'd be still considered fairly dry. But yeah the Anitfa type... they'd take his words to justify themselves and virtue-signal. SMH...

I'll be checking to see if commentators on the other side such as Candice Owens, for example will finally relent to admit that police misconduct applied to black people is a reality.... [[more conservatives are starting to admit it).

We need to be more aware of the obvious racial connections as they are evidenced as Noah points out.

[Bigdd]

Article on police shootings being a leading cause of death for young black men in the U.S.

Discusses a paper looking this issue; provides stats, worth a read.

https://www.latimes.com/science/stor...-for-black-men

That article is ridiculous.

Young black males are like 100x more likely to get shot by another young black male than by a cop. Where does LA Times get this garbage from?



Yes it is true that young black men are 2.5x as likely to get shot in an encounter by police,.. but what the article conveniently fails to leave out is that blacks as a whole are like 4.5 x as likely to shoot at cops than other races. Most of that coming from young black men ages 16-36,.. which are roughly 12-14 times more likely to shoot at a cop than other groups.

When you put it in perspective like that,.. the 2.5x number of the police side "almost" seem restrained.


The problem in the black community isn't cops,.. it's a lack of dads. Of course this means they can't blame all their self-created problems on others,.. so you'll get called all kinds of names for saying it. Better to live in crime and poverty than take responsibility.
https://www.facebook.com/prageru/vid...0199059022945/

[Zacha341]

^^^ I thought about that. As I am concerned about misconduct and murder in my community however it occurs I did not think those figures were right:

Working in education in Detroit I KNOW [[as do most of my colleagues) that death and crime applied to black men occurs mostly from other black men and fatherlessness is a PROBLEM. These factors and others are real no matter how uncomfortable it may make some 'feel'. Front liners like teachers know.

AND I also know [[no less) that police misconduct and brutality is a very serious factor as well!

Earlier in this thread, as stated I'm not reflexively anti-LEO [[having had family members working in security), but A is A when it occurs.

I put the AND in 'bold' underlined as black-on-black crime AND police misconduct that is a problem in our communities. NOT EITHER OR. It's both. We seen too many cases where the crime [[or supposed crime) scene starts ending in an inappropriate LEO response! Ala dovetailing incidences/ outcomes.

Once again [[as we see with the extremes re. the opinions about C-19) the prevalence in the court of public opinion [[as advanced to politics to public policy) is to negate one issue so as to push forward the exclusivity of something else!

[[PS. Police misconduct has increased applied to whites Daniel Shaver sobbing and begging officer for his life before 2016 shooting... over the last few years - more being reported thankfully).

[Meddle]

Where does LA Times get this garbage from?

Certainly NOT from:

www.Zuckerbook.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Hah. I wouldn't expect certain uh, em 'news' outlets to decry fatherlessness as a problem in the black community.

They don't even believe in fatherhood in their own. Men are eeE-vee-ill in general...... don't cha' know!?

They'll just let the far-right republicans and their media bash the black community over our head about it!

[Bigdd]

Certainly NOT from:

Uh,... Facebook is just where the video was posted. They didn't make the video.

I presume you don't trust Kweisi Mfume [[head of the NAACP) Larry Elder and Pres Obama on the subject of what troubles the black community?

[Richard]

^ I trust them about as far as I can throw them,with two broken legs,two broken arms and a migraine.

They are so detached from reality while sitting in their ivory towers making bank,that this their only true interests.

The mayor of St Paul is now also refusing to look at the facts and pandering to the detriment of his city and blaming everybody else.

The videos of people looting are not people from out of state,they sure would not be pushing a shopping basket of flat screen TVs down the interstate.

The only time those two cites ran halfway decent was when the mob was in control.Now they are run by incompetence.

They act like all of a sudden they care about the south side,notice no shiny street car rails in those videos.

They are just as guilty of keeping people in their place,as the people they claim are racist.

40 years and hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to rebuild the south side and make it a better place after it was burnt to the ground last time,moving your business to the suburbs you make more money with no headaches.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zXZpwnRuKHQ

[oladub]

The mayor of St Paul is now also refusing to look at the facts and pandering to the detriment of his city and blaming everybody else.

I've read that the Mayor of St. Paul lives about 300 feet from a liquor store where two people have been killed in the last year. I'm sure he would shut it down if he could. The Mayor is too progressive for my taste in politics but he is a good man. I have no clue why that trouble magnet of a liquor store keeps its license. Maybe money speaks. Sometimes people in power don't have all the power. The Mayor has said that all St. Paul arrests yesterday were of outsiders. If he is right, it would put a different light on the rioting. If we find out who the looters are, we could better deal with these people.