Two Dams Break in Michigan due to heavy rains - cause major floods

**Jimaz** · May-20-20, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

I believe the other two are up the chain, north of Edenville...

Yeah, I saw that on Google Maps. I was worried about other dams in the state though.

Originally Posted by jcole

... and the lower of those two is rumored to have either breached or broken, so I'm not sure what's happening there....

I hadn't heard that. Thanks.

Now I'm wondering why the Sanford spillways didn't protect it. Yeah, that's a hell of a lot of water but I would expect the spillways could be designed to handle any possible scenario. I thought that was their purpose. Maybe they were badly maintained? I'm just guessing.

**Dan Wesson** · May-20-20, 06:20 PM

The tittabawasee head waters are just below where M-30 heads east from going north from M-61. The first dam is just north of Secord, just east of M-30 going North. The second dam is Smallwood lake dam south of m-61.
Then you got the two dams just north of Edenville. The eastern dam closest to Wixom lake gave way. The Sanford dam held it just couldn't spill water fast enough that that eventually water flowed over the berm. Sanford was flooded before that though when the gates were thrown open.
There is a fourth dam below Midland that failed, the Poseyville Dike. One of a series of dikes around Dow containment ponds. Brine Pond #6 at Poseyville and Ashby roads.

**Dan Wesson** · May-20-20, 06:33 PM

Spillways are for excess water the dam cant control.

**Ray1936** · May-20-20, 07:04 PM

My thought after viewing the YouTube clips was.......a lot of lakefront property value just took a nose dive. Gonna take years to rebuild any dam and refill the former lake. Not to mention that there will be a degree of decay from the exposed bottom which will be nothing to sniff at.

**Jimaz** · May-20-20, 09:21 PM

I've been pondering the geometry of the mouth at the upstream end of the Sanford spillway.

If the sides of the mouth were vertical, the cross-sectional area at the mouth, hence flow rate, should be proportional to the height of the water behind the dam, a linear relationship.

But if the sides of the mouth were slanted in a V shape, the cross-sectional area at the mouth, hence flow rate, would accelerate relative to the height of the water behind the dam. The shallower the V, the greater that acceleration.

So, is it not possible to design these dams to not fail in this way? I suspect it is possible and has been done. So what else happened? Maintenance failure?

I am not a civil engineer. If any readers are, please contribute.

Condolences to those downstream. Protecting the dams from self destruction ultimately reduces even greater damage downstream.

**Johnnny5** · May-20-20, 09:43 PM

In the case of Edenville dam it was partially an earthen dam with a lack of an emergency [[Slightly lower) concrete overflow. When the top of the soil portion was crested by the high water it quickly destabilized allowing the entire lake to drain. I believe the dam further downstream [[Below Sanford Lake) was updated in the last few years and had a concrete overflow. That allows water to escape before it topples the more vulnerable areas of the dam.

**Dan Wesson** · May-21-20, 08:49 AM

This issue between dammed up river front owners and the dam owners has been going on for thirty odd years I am aware of.
Waterfront owners didn't want tax assessments levied on them and dam owners saw no value in picking up the whole tab.
The latest arrangement involving selling the dam to quasi private/public/government agency is another way of shifting the burden of cost of repairs from primary benefactors to a larger tax paying base on multiple counties and the larger population of the State of Michigan.

Here is news blurb from Oct 2018. Notice the result of the dam owner complying to the feds removal of their license to operate and the water front owner to it. Been going on for years. This the Tittabawasee in natural state.

https://www.wnem.com/wixom-lake-lake...041794991.html

**Dan Wesson** · May-21-20, 08:59 AM

These issues between waterfront owners and non waterfront neighbors have been problematic forever. Runs the gamut from lawsuits to intentional criminal boat sinkings and fist fights. Of course the tax issues too.

**Dan Wesson** · May-21-20, 09:05 AM

At one time it was big in real estate to dam rivers create waterfront property and market these little parcels of northern Michigan paradise in downstate newspapers. It is still being done on a lesser scale.

**Zacha341** · May-21-20, 09:17 AM

Drone imaging prior to break...

https://www.wnem.com/drone-video-of-...90d83c2bb.html

**Dan Wesson** · May-21-20, 09:30 AM

There it goes!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc3u...re=emb_rel_end

**MikeM** · May-21-20, 10:28 AM

Past 7 days of rain as a percentage of average. A hot spot of nearly 800% upstream.

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**Jimaz** · May-21-20, 11:46 AM

Lake vanishes after Michigan dam fails during record flooding

That's a big opportunity for mudlarks with metal detectors.

**Dan Wesson** · May-21-20, 12:09 PM

Notice them sand bars and stumps? They were always hazards out there.

**mikeg19** · May-21-20, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Notice them sand bars and stumps? They were always hazards out there.

Any of those dammed up rivers are a haven for stumps and sand. You definitely can't just hop into a boat and start driving without having some knowledge of where that crap is at out there. I've covered about every inch of Secord and Wixom lakes but still am always on the lookout for crap out there.

**stasu1213** · May-21-20, 01:59 PM

Had the Dow chemical plant been breached?

**Dan Wesson** · May-21-20, 03:42 PM

Ha.
Guess who wanted to lower Wixom lake levels, who prevented them and over what according to this article.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2020/05/o...ore-flood.html

**Honky Tonk** · May-21-20, 04:49 PM

"Dave Kepler, a Sanford Lake resident who chairs the Four Lakes Task Force, said the $9.4 million sale would have been finalized this year, but indicated that outcome may be in doubt."

Ya think?

**CassTechGrad** · May-22-20, 08:09 AM

“Whitmer: Michigan will 'hold people responsible' for dam failures”
Frank Witsil Detroit Free Press

Based on this it looks like she’s the one who needs to be held responsible, just like Gov Snyder was for the Flint Water issue? I’m just asking.

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**GMan** · May-22-20, 08:16 AM

This one will be in the courts for a while I bet.
Michigan had competing interests against the dam owners.
Here's a review of the situation by a lawyer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iyPtpm-QQc

**Dan Wesson** · May-22-20, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by GMan

This one will be in the courts for a while I bet.
Michigan had competing interests against the dam owners.
Here's a review of the situation by a lawyer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iyPtpm-QQc

Michigan DNR, EGLE and Waterfront Property Owners and their Associations using whatever angles they could use against the greedy owners of the dam.

**Dan Wesson** · May-22-20, 10:51 AM

Deflect,Deflect and deflect some more...

**Dan Wesson** · May-23-20, 10:02 AM

Fox in charge of the hen house so to speak? Conflict of interest?

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-en...on-dam-failure

Didn't Nessel toss or alter the Flint Fed water investigation?

More politics.... same oh same oh, seems like it will never end. To bad, this too will cause the gnashing of teeth and heads to explode.

**Canadian Visitor** · May-24-20, 03:41 PM

A story by someone from Midland, discussing the origin of the dams, Dow Chemical and the current situation/future.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-hometown.html

**Dan Wesson** · May-25-20, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor

A story by someone from Midland, discussing the origin of the dams, Dow Chemical and the current situation/future.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-hometown.html

Quite the villiany contained in that article.