New Corona Virus thread.

[Meddle]

Kinda weird when Big Double Dummy makes the most sense on a thread.

[Ray1936]

Hopefully the moderators will delete everything past post #13, so that Ray's thread can get back on track for it's goal of essentially being a poll of how we all think on this topic.

Somehow, I think we have become a real candy-assed nation since The Greatest Generation.
CAESAR
"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The brave experience death only once"

Just my thought, Caesar, old pal.

[Dan Wesson]

I liked the concept of saying what you can in one sentence or less.

[Dan Wesson]

What? Me worry?

[rb336]

Somehow, I think we have become a real candy-assed nation since The Greatest Generation.
CAESAR
"Cowards die many times before their deaths. The brave experience death only once"

Just my thought, Caesar, old pal.

Just that that was fake Caesar. By WS

[Dan Wesson]

'What!?

Now we got Coronaphobics and Coronanazis.

Coronaphobics are the genuinely scared – frightened by the excitable news flow, and what the virus will do to them and their families.

Coronanazis are an increasing number of players willing to play politics to delay reopening to prize concessions and control.

[aj3647]

Yes, this thing is WAY overblown. Death rates similar to FLU.

Just because you keep saying it does not make it true.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...n-a-month.html



"Coronavirus is causing 10 times more mortality than flu," said Dr. Teena Chopra, a professor of infectious diseases at Wayne State University and corporate medical director of hospital epidemiology at the Detroit Medical Center. "It is a very contagious virus."

[Bigdd]

Just because you keep saying it does not make it true.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...n-a-month.html



"Coronavirus is causing 10 times more mortality than flu," said Dr. Teena Chopra, a professor of infectious diseases at Wayne State University and corporate medical director of hospital epidemiology at the Detroit Medical Center. "It is a very contagious virus."

Um, NO.

According to the CDC between 1,700 and 1,900 have died in each of the last 4 years in Michigan. So even IF the Covid numberws weren't uinflated,... the death stats are a bit worse than a flu season.


Of course no one tests for FLU,. so the numbers are estimated.
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-he...t-get-its-shot

And JUST like the FLU,.. the death rates are a bit higher for African Americans,... and get MUCH higher by age range.
https://www.livestories.com/statisti...aths-mortality

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...n/michigan.htm

[aj3647]

Um, NO.

According to the CDC between 1,700 and 1,900 have died in each of the last 4 years in Michigan. So even IF the Covid numberws weren't uinflated,... the death stats are a bit worse than a flu season.


Of course no one tests for FLU,. so the numbers are estimated.
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-he...t-get-its-shot

And JUST like the FLU,.. the death rates are a bit higher for African Americans,... and get MUCH higher by age range.
https://www.livestories.com/statisti...aths-mortality

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...n/michigan.htm

Take it up with MLive and the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services, I didn't make the graph.

And I'm glad you were able to admit that the CDC numbers are ESTIMATES, created using statistical modeling that looks at excess mortality that could be attributed to the Flu. That makes COVID numbers even more reliable, since those that died DID test positive, unlike the numbers cited for the Flu. If anything the COVID death stats are underreported since they would not include those who died at home or elsewhere and were never tested.

I'm still waiting for your proof that the COVID death stats are grossly inflated. Are you able to provide that proof?

Also you might want to check your math friend. A typical Flu season runs October - March, roughly 6 months. So how would the COVID death statistic be "only slightly higher" than the Flu if COVID killed over 3800 people in Michigan in just ONE month and the Flu would kill on average about ~320 people per month during flu season in Michigan? What's 3800/320?

Maybe you should email Dr. Chopra with your evidence?
"Coronavirus is causing 10 times more mortality than flu," said Dr. Teena Chopra, a professor of infectious diseases at Wayne State University and corporate medical director of hospital epidemiology at the Detroit Medical Center. "It is a very contagious virus."

[Meddle]

Just because you keep saying it does not make it true.

And just because you keep posting charts and graphs doesn't make it true.

[Bigdd]

And I'm glad you were able to admit that the CDC numbers are ESTIMATES, created using statistical modeling that looks at excess mortality that could be attributed to the Flu. That makes COVID numbers even more reliable, since those that died DID test positive, unlike the numbers cited for the Flu.

Yeah, "tested positive" for Covid. But that doesn't mean they DIED from Covid and covid alone does it?

A guy gets run over by a bus and tests positive for Herpes. Did he die from Herpes? You would obviously argue that he did,.. I would argue that it was most likely the bus,.. but that we'll never know for sure. Neither of us can prove it either way.




It is well known and reported by every source [[CDC included) that the vast majority of covid victims had underlying conditions.

78% ICU admissions had underlying conditions.

And 94% of deaths [[where complete health info was available) had underlying conditions.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6913e2.htm


So someone dies from 5 things, and tests pos for Covid. Did they die from Covid? Who knows. BUT, if that is one of the things listed on the death cert,... then the media is reporting it as a "covid death".


But you should feel free to hide in your basement and shake with fear for the next few years. That's your right.

It's just odd that you feel the need to try to terrorize everyone else.

Wise people aren't gonna buy it.

[Richard]

In the United States, flu season occurs in the fall and winter. While influenza viruses circulate year-round, most of the time flu activity peaks between December and February, but activity can last as late as May.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season..._1531424547919

Why did you LIE AJ and say the flu season ended in March,when it was not true,.

You are also forgetting the 7-14 day window in reporting deaths,numbers posted today are actually from 7-14 days ago.

[jcole]

Gonna make this short:
https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...n-a-month.html

[Richard]

so after printing an article supporting the claim that the virus is different then the flu they top it off with this

“It’s enough data to tell that, yes we’re dealing with something very deadly,” said Jeff Duncan director of the Division for Vital Records and Health Statistics with the MDHHS. “But to talk about case fatality rates and transmissions and to make comparisons to things that have been settled for 100 years, it’s just way too soon to do that.”

[jcole]

You forgot to port the rest of that paragraph:

“It takes time," Duncan said. “We don’t necessarily have a lot of immediate answers. But we’re trying to compile the data and make it available as quickly as possible.”

so after printing an article supporting the claim that the virus is different then the flu they top it off with this

“It’s enough data to tell that, yes we’re dealing with something very deadly,” said Jeff Duncan director of the Division for Vital Records and Health Statistics with the MDHHS. “But to talk about case fatality rates and transmissions and to make comparisons to things that have been settled for 100 years, it’s just way too soon to do that.”

[Zacha341]

And yet the debate continues... not for most Detroiter's however.

Gonna make this short:
https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...n-a-month.html

[Richard]

You forgot to port the rest of that paragraph:

Yes,so you can understand why there is doubt in people’s minds.

Way to much at stake to just base it on,do it because we say so,because even the ones that say so,do not even know enough to base controlling decisions.

Like they say

We will not know the history of this pandemic,until the pandemic itself becomes history.

[jcole]

To parse for you: they know it's deadlier than the flu, but they can't figure out how deadly until they have more data to compare to. Their profession is data; they know how to use it and compile it. They know you don't take the numbers from something that hasn't even run its course and declare it over. The numbers are already greater than a season of the flu, but that's not good enough for scientific research.

[oladub]

In Wisconsin, the State Supreme court ruled agains Gov. Evers CV-19 stay at home restrictions. Bars, restaurants and everything else in Wisconsin were in theory re-opened by the Court ruling. Madison, Milwaukee and some other cities immediately adopted Gov. Evers' restrictions as their own. People in more rural parts of the state never understood why they should go bankrupt because of what was going on in Milwaukee.

I took a Saturday drive from stay at home Madistan to do some business and see how it was going elsewhere. I was surprised that most outstate restaurants were still closed. I've since read about restaurant owners who didn't think reopening was safe for their customers and others who can't get some of their employees to give up all the free money to come back to work to a pay cut. Other restaurants might be in the middle of remodeling not expecting that they would reopen so soon.

I did make two stops; a Quik Trip and an Amish nursery where 3.5" tomato plants were 4 for $1.20. At Home Depot in Madison, 4.5" tomato plants were $3.85 each. Prices go up when the government puts small competitors out of business.

We will soon be able to see what happens in Georgia, the Carolinas, and Colorado to see what works best. Myself? I'm still wearing a mask when around people but I'm open to opening things up if the statistics prove doing so is ok.

[softailrider]

To parse for you: they know it's deadlier than the flu, but they can't figure out how deadly until they have more data to compare to. Their profession is data; they know how to use it and compile it. They know you don't take the numbers from something that hasn't even run its course and declare it over. The numbers are already greater than a season of the flu, but that's not good enough for scientific research.

The virus experts don’t even know how long an adult or kid who has the virus and is totally symptom free, can communicate the disease to others.

[Bigdd]

In Wisconsin, the State Supreme court ruled agains Gov. Evers CV-19 stay at home restrictions.

Gov Whitmer's team seemed to get crushed during Friday's hearing [[About whether she is allowed to repeatedly issue State of Emergency orders [[she's not).

Most pundits expected the judge was going to rule right then and there, but she didn't.

Presumably the judge will rule against the governor soon,.. and then it will be appealed to the state Supreme Court. It's being fast-tracked, so the whole process should take a week or so,.. and not years.

[aj3647]

You guys were right, there is a conspiracy to manipulate the COVID statistics for partisan political purposes...it's just not the one you claim.

Director of Florida's Department of Health COVID-19 surveillance dashboard was fired from that position after she refused to censor and manipulate the data to make it support the Governor's decision to re-open the state.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health...r-emails-show/

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coro...nde-story.html

In her Friday email to subscribers of a “COVID data users” listserv, Jones said she was reassigned on May 5 “[f]or reasons beyond my division’s control” and warned that the staff taking over may be less straightforward.

“As a word of caution, I would not expect the new team to continue the same level of accessibility and transparency that I made central to the process during the first two months. After all, my commitment to both is largely [[arguably entirely) the reason I am no longer managing it,” she wrote.

“They are making a lot of changes. I would advise being diligent in your respective uses of this data.”

Internal emails obtained by the Tampa Bay Times confirm her account that her superiors in the Florida State Government directed her to censor data in response to inquires from the news media, and that she pushed back on that request.

[Richard]

^ TBT is a liberal rag,yesterday’s headlines on the online version read in big black bold letters FUCK THIS for all the world to see,they blamed it on a vendor.

So the Crux of it all is she was upset because back in January there were people that were reporting symptoms that she feels were related to the corona virus and should have been reported as such.

Why would she want unconfirmed cases counted as confirmed.

What was also happing in Florida at the time that has similar symptoms?

The Flu
Pollen season in full swing.
1 week of cold then the next week of really hot weather,so lots of colds.

Agreed that January 5th when I was in the hospital they were clearing the ICU out and preparing for something,but also at that time there was no solid way of actually confirming corona virus until you entered the hospital.

We already know hospitals tweak numbers to their benefit and I am glad she walked away,because she felt unconfirmed cases should also be registered as in fact confirmed.

Why is it as of late when somebody gets fired or transferred the first thing they do is run to the press,she had no problem wanting to tweak the numbers towards her benefit and got mad when they told her to stop tweaking the numbers.

It makes zero sense that the governor provides numbers designed to encourage opening up,we were going to open back up,Governor or not he does not have to justify anything,some of us are capable of making our own decisions and do not need to be told what to do,it is a part of being a grown up.

Apple has been tracking everybody’s movements across the country sense this all started.

Their findings?

The lockdown restrictions has not effected the amount of movement and there has been little noticeable decrease in movement then,before the lock downs.

Even on lockdown,people are still moving about.

[aj3647]

British medical journal The Lancet takes the unprecedented step of releasing a formal statement calling out President Trump for lying about a Lancet article. You can read it here.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ment-in-letter

https://twitter.com/TheLancet/status...361254401?s=20

Specifically, they are referring a claim made by Donald Trump that the WHO ignored evidence of a viral outbreak in Wuhan China and cited a phantom article published in the Lancet "in December 2019" as one of the pieces of evidence that the WHO ignored. Except the Lancet published no such article, or any article about a viral outbreak in China, in December 2019. The earliest mention of the outbreak in China that appeared in the Lancet was on January 24, 2020. Trump is lying.

Read the letter before attacking it. This isn't a matter of opinion, there is no subjectivity here. Either the Lancet did or did not report on the Wuhan outbreak in December 2019...and they did not. So Trump is 100% confirmed as lying about this. There is no gray area, no wiggle room, no excuse, he's flat out lying.

[Richard]

^ are you wondering why they only posted their copy of their letter and not Trumps?

Until I see the exact words that Trump wrote and based on people’s history of twisting words,I will reserve judgment until both sides are presented.

They must have a copy ?