Corona Virus Crisis Discussion Thread

[Richard]

So, ummmmm, 1500 flu case this year in the US nationwide. Last year 38 million flu cases. Do you believe in coincidence? Don’t think I do, but I do believe in bullshit.

Between October 1, 2019 through April 4, 2020 it is estimated that there have been:
• 39 million – 56 million flu illnesses
• 18 million – 26 million flu medical visits
• 410,000 – 740,000 flu hospitalizations
• 24,000 – 62,000 flu deaths


Look at tomorrow April 17 in 2019

When you look at all of the years previously,the spikes in cases match the current virus spikes.

A bit strange that the two flu/virus coordinate the exact same spike paths.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdhhs/MIFF_04-17-20_688206_7.pdf


Go back through the years and watch the Covid spikes match the exact same time the flu spiked,same months almost down to the same day.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,588...17-2018%20MIFF

I think what is worse is no matter where you go in the country,everybody is stressed out over something they cannot change personally,that’s long term not healthy.

I shut down the service side of my business,customers said - you cannot that we cannot find anybody else - I told them when they learn to chill out maybe I will be back.

The other side of it is there are so many people fleeing the north because of all of this,I listed my house and sold it 1 hour later for full asking and cash.

But every property I look at is sold by the time I view it and put an offer,we have 1000 homes on the market with an estimated 7000 buyers with cash waiting to buy.

The virus is one thing but I think the long term ramifications of everything surrounding it are worse.

[JBMcB]

High covid numbers [[per capita) are in Macomb and Oakland, not Wayne county.

Where are you getting that rate from? I pulled total infection numbers from the New York Times, and census data from Wikipedia, and came out with infection rates roughly 12.4% for both Wayne and Oakland, and 10% for Macomb.

Wayne:
Population: 1,749,343
Cases: 140,000
Rate: 12.4%

Oakland
Population: 1,257,584
Cases: 102,000
Rate: 12.3%

Macomb
Population: 873,972
Cases: 86,400
Rate: 10%

[Gistok]

Jcole... he's just sore because this whole Covid thingy is interfering with his social life... poor boy...

Besides the 563,000 deaths... there's hundreds of thousands more that have bad side effects [but have survived] from Covid. My friend spent 16 weeks on oxygen... and now that she's off, she can't keep her blood pressure stable... [180/120 is worrisome].

Health care workers are burned out from the past year.

JBMcB... I believe Maof may be talking about the recent rate... not the cumulative totals over the entire Pandemic.

[MikeM]

You can go straight to the CDC website and get that data. The 7-day moving average of case rate per 100k population:

Macomb 699.68
Oakland 516.94
Wayne 606.86

[softailrider]

You don't think wearing mask the last year helped to bring flu cases down? What's the coincidence?

Brought the flu cases down from 38 million to 1500? That's a pretty big drop they're talking about. Does that number really sound on the level to you?

[Maof]

Where are you getting that rate from? I pulled total infection numbers from the New York Times, and census data from Wikipedia, and came out with infection rates roughly 12.4% for both Wayne and Oakland, and 10% for Macomb.

Wayne:
Population: 1,749,343
Cases: 140,000
Rate: 12.4%

Oakland
Population: 1,257,584
Cases: 102,000
Rate: 12.3%

Macomb
Population: 873,972
Cases: 86,400
Rate: 10%

Hover over the state map and it will give you covid cases per county. Also, the sidebar on the left.

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus...173---,00.html

[Maof]

Brought the flu cases down from 38 million to 1500? That's a pretty big drop they're talking about. Does that number really sound on the level to you?

I'm not seeing 1500.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

[Wesley Mouch]

My eyes glaze over when I hear most Coronavirus stats. Total cases of x. IFR of y. Cumulative this. Percent utilization of that.

Then my blood boils when I read about someone who got CV after getting vaccinated. Or J&J must be withdrawn due to 99 somethings caused by Trump no doubt, or Granholm, or DiBlasio or Santes or however you spell that.

So do we have anything we can trust? We need more trustworthy sources.

Should we lockdown? Not clear. Do masks work? Not clear. Are vaccines working? Not clear. Is there a seventh wave? Who knows.

When I read the debate here [[and everywhere), I notice so much confidence. People think they know what's going on. We don't know. We know a few things, but not nearly enough. And not with much confidence.

So in the meantime, take reasonable steps [[like masks and social distance when you can). And be charitable towards all.

Should someone wear a mask outdoors, be kind.

Should some not wear a mask indoors, be kind.

Should someone decide to put their friends at risk by not getting vaccinated, be kind.

Kindness is the one thing we can be sure will contribute to improving things.

[softailrider]

I'm not seeing 1500.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

You're right. I'm not seeing 1500 either. I got that stat off twitter, now I can't find out where it came from, I should have vetted it out better. 1500 has got to be too low.

[Gistok]

A friend from Ontario said they are going towards lockdown mode again until May 20....

We can’t have visitors inside or outside

Grocery, drug and liquor stores have a limit as to how many people in the store at one time

Schools closed, zoom only.

You can order from nonessential stores online and go pick up outside the store

The police have the right to stop you and ask why you are out of your house.

Playgrounds closed, no golf or other outside activities.

Restaurants, take out only. They come to your car. Not allowed inside.

[jcole]

Yes, I saw this announced earlier in the week on CBC. Toronto is very bad.

A friend from Ontario said they are going towards lockdown mode again until May 20....

We can’t have visitors inside or outside

Grocery, drug and liquor stores have a limit as to how many people in the store at one time

Schools closed, zoom only.

You can order from nonessential stores online and go pick up outside the store

The police have the right to stop you and ask why you are out of your house.

Playgrounds closed, no golf or other outside activities.

Restaurants, take out only. They come to your car. Not allowed inside.

[Gistok]

Yes, I saw this announced earlier in the week on CBC. Toronto is very bad.

Ontario now has border checks with neighboring Manitoba and Quebec.

[401don]

A friend from Ontario said they are going towards lockdown mode again until May 20....

We can’t have visitors inside or outside

Grocery, drug and liquor stores have a limit as to how many people in the store at one time

Schools closed, zoom only.

You can order from nonessential stores online and go pick up outside the store

The police have the right to stop you and ask why you are out of your house.

Playgrounds closed, no golf or other outside activities.

Restaurants, take out only. They come to your car. Not allowed inside.

Most of that is correct. You can enter restaurants however for take-out. It's political silliness. I'm for strict lockdowns that make sense but padlocking outdoor tennis courts while non-essential business like construction, warehouses, etc. remain open is crazy. Most people are ignoring the "don't leave your house" advice. There was a line out the door at my Tim Horton's this morning. The front page of today's Toronto Star is nothing but quotes from doctors criticizing the gov't for ignoring their advice and getting it all wrong.

[Richard]

Most of that is correct. You can enter restaurants however for take-out. It's political silliness. I'm for strict lockdowns that make sense but padlocking outdoor tennis courts while non-essential business like construction, warehouses, etc. remain open is crazy. Most people are ignoring the "don't leave your house" advice. There was a line out the door at my Tim Horton's this morning. The front page of today's Toronto Star is nothing but quotes from doctors criticizing the gov't for ignoring their advice and getting it all wrong.

Strict lockdowns for who?

Last lockdown people flooded the Internet with take away,Amazon orders,food delivery,wanting power and lights and internet,police,fire,hospital workers.

That’s millions of people and workers not on lockdown so others can,there is not one place in the world,even under totalitarian lockdowns,that did not have a jump in cases after lifting lockdowns.

There are people getting the shot,then still contracting and spreading Covid and a percentage of those are still dying.

Lockdowns have not proven to stop the spread,they slow it so the hospitals can catch up,but as soon as they come off of lockdown it starts again.

I still do not get why some places are severely impacted while others are not,no matter where you go in the world people act the same,why is it some places can not have lockdowns and have low numbers while others have lockdowns with high numbers?

My guess,kinda like all the experts are doing,while removing the expert part from my guess.

I am thinking that when you go on lockdown,you are in a controlled environment and your natural immune system gets comfortable and relaxed,then when you come off of lockdown,it gets bombarded all at once with all the little nastys that have always been around and the immune system gets weakened because it has to pull double duty.

I have been lucky I guess ,I never stopped working through it all,out and about every day etc. I have had 3 customers relate their Covid experiences,kidney transplants etc. but they have been telling me all of their severe health problems for the last 3 years.

They were the worst case most vulnerable before even Covid but still survived Covid.

In this country the police randomly stopping people in the streets asking to see your papers would have cities burning with riots,throw a little Covid in there and you can police state lock down a entire city using only fear.

atbetterdetroit summed it up to the T.

You who is pushing the hardest for strict lockdowns around me ? The ones making more money staying at home then they would have made while working.

It is hard to figure out exactly what is going on,if your company is receiving billions for producing laptops for schools for use in remote learning,would you promote no lockdowns?

If you are a Internet company whose revenues have increased by the billions in the last year because people are sitting at home spending free money ordering online because they have nothing else to do,would you be promoting no lockdowns?

How come our schools have been open with no increase in cases with students and teachers while you hear schools need to be shut down in order to stop the spread?

There is a lot more to this then the virus,a very few are making billions while everybody else is slowly losing every thing they have without even realizing what is happening.

Right now a pressure treated board 2x8x16 is $60 per board when it used to be $6 a year ago,4x8 3/4 plywood is $65 to $70 per sheet where it was $28 6 months ago ,what do people think will happen when that free money tap shuts off after the lockdowns,no jobs and no money and a crash of reckoning.

There is trillions of dollars to be made on the virus and those collecting it are going to do everything in their power to continue to do it,we have created a reason to have lockdowns and it has little to do with the virus.

This country has a history of being reactive to emergencies,and that is what we the people have been doing sense day one.

Do you guys think it is about time that we the people start demanding answers so we can move on with this and nip it in the butt?

Seriously,what exactly has changed in the last year,outside of a shot that may or may not protect you,take the shot,but still wear your mask and wash your hands and stay locked down .

I think it is about time we learn the facts about what is really going on,outside of the broken record experts that other facts are disproving them wrong.

It’s not the experts or those implementing things for their benefit over ours and we are the ones paying the price.

The experts are saying,go home,lockdown and stay there until you die.

You do not think we do not deserve a little bit more honesty in all of this?

[Gistok]

^^ Richard, Canadian seniors and hospital workers are only just beginning to get their vaccines... so they are about 2-3 months behind us in vaccinations. Which may explain their extreme measures.

Michigan's Whitmer may be changing tact... she's hesitating about initiating another lockdown...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...id-coronavirus

[Richard]

Yea I do not know,the flu shot has been available for years but yet 66,000 a year die from it with over 200,000 hospitalizations related to it.

So if the odds were 98.9 % of one catching it or it being fatal before the shot,how do we know the results of the shot ?

98% of the population can say they will not get the virus because they received the shot,but it is the same 98% that would have survived if they had not received the shot.

So far they are only tagging the shot as having a 76% effective rate.

In Florida they say 50% of seniors have received the shot but yet the cases,although low when compared to other states,remains the same as before the shot.

I am always out n about and the public is more relaxed when it comes to the mask,I would say in the last 3 months the usage in public has dropped at least 50%,but there is no spike in cases like we are seeing elsewhere.

We talked about this before and put the sunshine into the equation,vitamin D,could it be as simple as that?

That is what I have a hard time wrapping my hard head around,no different then millions of others,how come we can run around Willy nilly and not have numbers spike but in other places they shoot through the roof.

I do not buy the Detroit has an unhealthy population therefore more effected,you seen the rest of the country ? As a whole we are a health nuts poster child for disaster.

That is the nagging question and one that the shot or lockdowns will not fix,in my un expert opinion ,why the disparity in cases or outbreaks or what ever we call it.

People in Detroit or Toronto are not doing or acting any different then any where else in the country.

I have always admitted I suck at math,but even for me it just is not adding up and I think there is something being missed.

It’s kinda like with a car,it stops running,they hook all of this electronic gear up to it in order to find out what is wrong with it,nobody can figure it out and everybody is scratching their heads as to why it will not start,the janitor strolls by and asks,have you tried putting gas in it,it will not run without it.

So we look for the complexities while missing the obvious,but it is real people dieing.


Here they have taken and shut down or taken away liquor licenses or fined of business that were in violation of Covid restrictions.

Every single one of those businesses that took it to court,won the case,the judges ruled that the government cannot impose its will on private businesses where it will cause harm financially.

In short,in this country private business is not an extension of the state.

IE: they are private and not state owned like in some countries.

They say the ICUs in the hospitals are full and beyond capacity,when I had my heart attack the January before all of this hit,I was in the ICU and it was full just as it always is,not trying to undercut the impact of Covid but maybe a little less of the drama behind it.

What was that guys name in the TV show - Just the facts mamn.

[Honky Tonk]

What was that guys name in the TV show - Just the facts mamn.

Joe Friday. The actor was Jack Webb. The show was Dragnet. Do I win?

[Jerry Van]

Strict lockdowns for who?

You do not think we do not deserve a little bit more honesty in all of this?

Honesty is worthless when people refuse to believe it. When honest information does not conform to preconceived notions, it's deemd to be lies.

[BTW, it's "nip it in the bud." Honest!]

[softailrider]

Honesty is worthless when people refuse to believe it. When honest information does not conform to preconceived notions, it's deemd to be lies.

[BTW, it's "nip it in the bud." Honest!]

Honest information is difficult to believe when the narrative keeps changing. Just to use an example, I haven't been on an airplane in 13.5 months, I've been vaccinated. Is it safe to fly? Depends on which "honest information" you believe.

[Richard]

Honesty is worthless when people refuse to believe it. When honest information does not conform to preconceived notions, it's deemd to be lies.

[BTW, it's "nip it in the bud." Honest!]

I have to adapt to the youngsters terminology,a bud is the part of a pot plant that when nipped,creates a greater concentration of THC in the rest of it,making it more potent.

A butt ? Everybody pretty much knows universally what that is.

The rest is like,I can fix a Ford but if I was made CEO of Ford tomorrow,would I be then considered an expert on everything Ford?

Would all of the employees follow everything thing I suggested or implemented without question?

Look up the Tuskegee Experiment,people have deep memories and when there is something new,that even today is not fully understood,people have a tendency to take a stance of,when you figure it out,let me know.

There is a risk involved with catching the virus,just as there is a risk involved with getting the shot,people are going to weigh both risks and make personal decisions as to which risk they deem to choose.

So it is hard to pass judgment on anybody on both sides.

Then one has to wade through a sea of conflicting information in the process.

The UK reports their healthcare system is overwhelmed with COVID-19 but yet before the virus,they were experiencing wait times in the parking lot for ambulances in the parking lots for up to 3 hours before admitting.

So if healthcare systems were already overwhelmed before the virus,it would stand to reason only one case of the virus would add to a already overwhelmed system,most hospitals only have 5 or 6 ICUs to begin with.

So it is easy to say they are full,even more so rural ones that do not even have ICUs.

Hit any major hospital trauma center on a friday or Saturday night,they are overwhelmed without Covid.

I think the optics being presented is what is providing more questions then answers.

[Bong-Man]

I have to adapt to the youngsters terminology,a bud is the part of a pot plant that when nipped,creates a greater concentration of THC in the rest of it,making it more potent.

And a happy 420 to you and everyone else.

I've coined a new term for the pandemic response.....'needle porn'. That's for the news media that insists on showing me 20 shoulder shots on every newscast.

[Seven&wyo]

I have to adapt to the youngsters terminology,a bud is the part of a pot plant that when nipped,creates a greater concentration of THC in the rest of it,making it more potent.

A butt ? Everybody pretty much knows universally what that is.

The rest is like,I can fix a Ford but if I was made CEO of Ford tomorrow,would I be then considered an expert on everything Ford?

Would all of the employees follow everything thing I suggested or implemented without question?

Look up the Tuskegee Experiment,people have deep memories and when there is something new,that even today is not fully understood,people have a tendency to take a stance of,when you figure it out,let me know.

There is a risk involved with catching the virus,just as there is a risk involved with getting the shot,people are going to weigh both risks and make personal decisions as to which risk they deem to choose.

So it is hard to pass judgment on anybody on both sides.

Then one has to wade through a sea of conflicting information in the process.

The UK reports their healthcare system is overwhelmed with COVID-19 but yet before the virus,they were experiencing wait times in the parking lot for ambulances in the parking lots for up to 3 hours before admitting.

So if healthcare systems were already overwhelmed before the virus,it would stand to reason only one case of the virus would add to a already overwhelmed system,most hospitals only have 5 or 6 ICUs to begin with.

So it is easy to say they are full,even more so rural ones that do not even have ICUs.

Hit any major hospital trauma center on a friday or Saturday night,they are overwhelmed without Covid.

I think the optics being presented is what is providing more questions then answers.

Just to piggyback off of this a little, if you ask any healthcare administrator they’ll tell you most hospitals in the US usually run at around 85% capacity since that’s what pays the bills. So when I saw that some hospitals were experiencing 90% during flu season I couldn’t give a fuck less

[Jimaz]

Ted Nugent says he had COVID: ‘I thought I was dying’

...
In a live video Monday night, Nugent said he had “flu symptoms” for 10 days that made him feel like he was “dying.”

“I literally could hardly crawl out of bed the last few days ... I was officially tested positive for COVID-19 today,” he said in the video laden with graphic language and completely false statements about vaccines.

Nugent, 72, had called COVID-19 “not a real pandemic.” In his video Monday he said people told him he shouldn’t announce that he tested positive.

Nugent, a loud supporter of ex-President Donald Trump, also has called the pandemic a scam and complained about public health restrictions.

A poll by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research in late March found that 36% of Republicans said they will probably or definitely not get vaccinated, compared with 12% of Democrats. The seven-day national average of cases remains over 60,000 new infections per day.

Another one from whom not to take medical advice.

[Maof]

Ted Nugent says he had COVID: ‘I thought I was dying’

Another one from whom not to take medical advice.

I wonder if he spread the virus those 10 days he felt like crap before he was tested. He's an idiot.

[Gistok]

Just to piggyback off of this a little, if you ask any healthcare administrator they’ll tell you most hospitals in the US usually run at around 85% capacity since that’s what pays the bills. So when I saw that some hospitals were experiencing 90% during flu season I couldn’t give a fuck less

60% of hospital revenue is usually via elective surgery. So when all elective surgery is cancelled... using the 85% normal capacity figure includes elective surgery. So a 90% hospital capacity during the pandemic doesn't mean there's only a 5% increase in hospitalizations just due to Covid.