Corona Virus Crisis Discussion Thread

[Richard]

South Beach in Miami is now closed. Other Florida beaches remain open.

meh south beach peeps can afford to pay people to create a ring around them in order to suck up all the germs before it gets to them,they will all just meet up in Monaco.

[jcole]

People can keep saying that it's not as bad as the flu all they want, but the problem is WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET. They haven't had a chance to view a long term effect, if catching it once makes you immune or more susceptible, does it cause lung scarring as is being said or will that heal over the short term. We KNOW what the flu does and have a vaccine to help prevent it. I'm sure in 1918 people were just as, if not more so, afraid and panicked as they are today. Big difference is the fact that news and information disseminates in minutes, if not seconds, today and back then it took a lot longer and was less readily available. It well may be that this is no worse than flu, but we can't conceivably know that at this stage of the progression; better safe than all dead.

[jcole]

I read that the Gov is working with Casinos to shut down. I then heard from a friend who knows a worker at one of them, they are closing tomorrow morning. That is unconfirmed tho

[DeLemur]

Can someone give me an idea how, short of a vaccine, the virus subsides in an area without quickly returning as soon as regular activities resume? People are going back to work, restaurants are reopening, etc. in Wuhan. While the cases have dropped dramatically, they still have new cases daily. Why doesn't it just increase all over again?

Very limited people are back to work in Wuhan and schools are still closed so hardly a return to normal.

"Drawing confidence from Xi's visit and falling new infections, the Hubei provincial government said public transport workers in Wuhan and those engaged in making medical supplies and producing daily necessities could return to work. Other industries that impact national or global supply chains can also return to work with permission, it said."
https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/coro....1583940985305

[Lowell]

I read that the Gov is working with Casinos to shut down. I then heard from a friend who knows a worker at one of them, they are closing tomorrow morning. That is unconfirmed tho

From Crains.... She's using the Gaming Board to board them up.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer said Sunday evening that the Michigan Gaming Control Board will temporarily shut down state-regulated casinos as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases has climbed to 45 in the state.

Complete coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

"We know that's where there are masses of people who congregate," Whitmer said of Detroit's three casinos.

Additional details about when MGM Grand Detroit, MotorCity Casino and Greektown Casino would have to close were not immediately clear. A spokeswoman for the Michigan Gaming Control Board had no immediate details on when the shutdown would begin.

The temporary closures do not apply to tribal casinos as the state gaming control board has no direct regulatory authority over those gambling halls. However, Gun Lake Casino announced Sunday it would voluntarily close its Allegan County tribal casino for two weeks, starting at 3 a.m. Monday.

[Richard]

People can keep saying that it's not as bad as the flu all they want, but the problem is WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET. They haven't had a chance to view a long term effect, if catching it once makes you immune or more susceptible, does it cause lung scarring as is being said or will that heal over the short term. We KNOW what the flu does and have a vaccine to help prevent it. I'm sure in 1918 people were just as, if not more so, afraid and panicked as they are today. Big difference is the fact that news and information disseminates in minutes, if not seconds, today and back then it took a lot longer and was less readily available. It well may be that this is no worse than flu, but we can't conceivably know that at this stage of the progression; better safe than all dead.

I was referring to the 2018-2019 flu that is a yearly thing and claimed over 65,000 lives in the US alone.

The WHO estimates between 290,000 to 650,000 people per year die world wide from the flu.

But never lock downs or cancellations etc.

No cure for the flu otherwise we would not see those kinds of deaths.

137,000 so far contracted world wide with 6,000 deaths,over half in China.

Not comparing flu to the corona virus,comparing deaths and reactions to it.

• As of 17 February, in Sichuan Province, among 25493 identified close contacts, 25347 [[99%) were traced and 23178 [[91%) have completed medical observation. Among the close contacts, 0.9% were found to be infected with COVID-19.
•
As of 20 February, in Guangdong Province, among 9939 identified close contacts, 9939 [[100%) were traced and 7765 [[78%) have completed medical observation. Among the close contacts, 479 [[4.8%) were found to be infected with COVID-19.

They know where it is going and how it gets there and can give an estimated results.

This is the WHO findings

https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...nal-report.pdf

[Meddle]

EXTREME over reactions across the board.

[leapfrog]

EXTREME over reactions across the board.

and,sadly, some extreme under reactions, as well.

[401don]

EXTREME over reactions across the board.

What? Y'all haven't stocked up yet?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...up/5054436002/

[Zacha341]

^^^Rural areas are vulnerable to roving thieves it can be argued. The inner cities may get jiggy too!

[jcole]

And I am referring to the fact that the virus we are dealing with is not like the current flu in that we have a vaccine for flu but not for Covid-19 because there hasn't been enough time or info to create one.
We also have no idea what the true % of deaths per cases is because we have no idea how many cases there are. And we don't know that because there aren't enough tests available for all citizens. People with mild symptoms are having a hard time getting tested. Unless tests become available we have no number to divide into the number of deaths, or infections. We don't know what % of citizens are infected.
You can get a number from REPORTED cases, but that doesn't really tell us how deadly this is per either actual cases or as compared to population.
I never said a word about comparing current flu to Covid-19, that's all on you.
And I'm referring to the US, not China. If you trust everything they are putting forth, well....

I was referring to the 2018-2019 flu that is a yearly thing and claimed over 65,000 lives in the US alone.

The WHO estimates between 290,000 to 650,000 people per year die world wide from the flu.

But never lock downs or cancellations etc.

No cure for the flu otherwise we would not see those kinds of deaths.

137,000 so far contracted world wide with 6,000 deaths,over half in China.

Not comparing flu to the corona virus,comparing deaths and reactions to it.

• As of 17 February, in Sichuan Province, among 25493 identified close contacts, 25347 [[99%) were traced and 23178 [[91%) have completed medical observation. Among the close contacts, 0.9% were found to be infected with COVID-19.
•
As of 20 February, in Guangdong Province, among 9939 identified close contacts, 9939 [[100%) were traced and 7765 [[78%) have completed medical observation. Among the close contacts, 479 [[4.8%) were found to be infected with COVID-19.

They know where it is going and how it gets there and can give an estimated results.

This is the WHO findings

https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...nal-report.pdf

[Maof]

Whitmer shutting down all dine-in restaurant and bars.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/national/coronavirus/gov-whitmer-to-shut-down-dine-in-services-at-bars-and-restaurants-across-michigan

[Jimaz]

Whitmer shutting down all dine-in restaurant and bars....

This is to start at 3PM today. Restaurant carry out & deliveries will still be allowed.

[Atticus]

And I am referring to the fact that the virus we are dealing with is not like the current flu in that we have a vaccine for flu but not for Covid-19 because there hasn't been enough time or info to create one.
We also have no idea what the true % of deaths per cases is because we have no idea how many cases there are. And we don't know that because there aren't enough tests available for all citizens. People with mild symptoms are having a hard time getting tested. Unless tests become available we have no number to divide into the number of deaths, or infections. We don't know what % of citizens are infected.
You can get a number from REPORTED cases, but that doesn't really tell us how deadly this is per either actual cases or as compared to population.
I never said a word about comparing current flu to Covid-19, that's all on you.
And I'm referring to the US, not China. If you trust everything they are putting forth, well....

The other big mortality rate component is number of hospital beds, respirators, medical staff, etc.

Point being, there may be a lot of cases where people die from this because there aren’t enough medical services to go around... as in, they would have recovered and survived if they could have received proper care. Places with abundant beds, respirators, trained med staff, will likely have a significantly lower mortality rate. And because we have no idea at this point how swamped our hospitals will be, we really can’t predict what the true mortality rate will end up being here.

[401don]

From Crains.... She's using the Gaming Board to board them up.

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer said Sunday evening that the Michigan Gaming Control Board will temporarily shut down state-regulated casinos as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases has climbed to 45 in the state.

Complete coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

"We know that's where there are masses of people who congregate," Whitmer said of Detroit's three casinos.

Additional details about when MGM Grand Detroit, MotorCity Casino and Greektown Casino would have to close were not immediately clear. A spokeswoman for the Michigan Gaming Control Board had no immediate details on when the shutdown would begin.

The temporary closures do not apply to tribal casinos as the state gaming control board has no direct regulatory authority over those gambling halls. However, Gun Lake Casino announced Sunday it would voluntarily close its Allegan County tribal casino for two weeks, starting at 3 a.m. Monday.

So the governor can order every other type of business to close but not an Indian-owned one? Can she not request the Federal Gov't order them closed?

[bust]

This Coronavirus Is Unlike Anything in Our Lifetime, and We Have to Stop Comparing It to the Flu
Longtime health reporter Charles Ornstein says that comparing the novel coronavirus to the flu is dangerously inaccurate. Not one public health expert he trusts has called that comparison valid. Here’s why.
https://www.propublica.org/article/t...-it-to-the-flu

Don't listen to the liars, their surrogates, or those they've fooled.

[bust]

^^^Rural areas are vulnerable to roving thieves it can be argued. The inner cities may get jiggy too!

In my opinion, the biggest overreaction has been this part.
When New York City was hit by the 9/11 attack our response was to pull together, not fight each other.
Neighbors helped neighbors. Strangers helped strangers.
Crime plummeted. Empathy skyrocketed.
I don't think other parts of the country are different this way.
Ok, maybe, because the last thing on our mind was getting a gun.
The ones I trust least are the ones lining up to buy a gun.
That shows where their minds are.
But that's just the wackos, please confirm?

[Richard]

So the governor can order every other type of business to close but not an Indian-owned one? Can she not request the Federal Gov't order them closed?

Nope Indian lands are kinda like sovereign territory,the federal government cannot even Enter to enforce anything.

She can order road blocks and prevent people from entering though.

[ASilvaman]

Nope Indian lands are kinda like sovereign territory,the federal government cannot even Enter to enforce anything.

Thank you for clearly explaining this before it descends into Whitmer bashing

[rb336]

The other big mortality rate component is number of hospital beds, respirators, medical staff, etc.

Thanks to the Profit Motive, our healthcare system is extremely poorly developed to deal with an issue like this. They provide the number of beds and ventilators required to handle personal health crises, not public health crises. Just-in-time stock requirements means there is no way to have enough supplies during an epidemic.

[Richard]

In my opinion, the biggest overreaction has been this part.
When New York City was hit by the 9/11 attack our response was to come together, not fight each other.
Neighbors helped neighbors. Strangers helped strangers. Crime plummeted.
I don't think other parts of the country are different this way.
The ones I least trust are the ones buying guns.
That shows where their minds are.

You may not agree with guns and have little respect for those who practice the right to own them,but until you witness what happens when people become desperate and the lengths they will go to.

Look at what has happened with toilet paper,there is a segment of society that will not think twice about using any means necessary in order to acquire what you have if they want it.

There are plenty that will take advantage of this situation and exploit it with no qualms.

We are no longer a country of kumbya,the 1970s NYC blackout everybody broke out with block parties and made the best of it,the next one was marred by massive looting and people exploiting the situation.

If you least trust those who wish to employ means in which to protect their family on all fronts should it deem necessary,it shows where your mind is.

You can bet if your family is under duress and being exploited by somebody,the only person that can help you will be somebody else with a gun.

You can try telling people that you have a gun free zone residence and even post a sign outside stating so as a deterrent and depend on that.

Most here have taken steps in order to secure their families well being but you can bet there are millions that have not.All it takes is one.

[Bigdd]

And I am referring to the fact that the virus we are dealing with is not like the current flu in that we have a vaccine for flu but not for Covid-19 because there hasn't been enough time or info to create one.

It should be noted that vaccines have an efficacy rate of like 2.3%. [[I.E. you are 2.3% less likely to get the flu with the vac than without it.) Sometimes numbers are quoted in the 15% + range,.. but that's without taking into acct the numbers of people who GET the flu from the shots themselves,.. which the medical industry classifies as "Adverse reaction to the shot",.. and doesn't count those people as having ever gotten the FLU.

A Vaccine won't do squat to help with Covid-19. It may "slightly" help prevent,.... but it will take 1 - 2 years to develop, then test, then mass produce, and then get out to the pharmacies doctors offices etc to inject, then patients to develop some immunity perhaps.

Of course mist viruses of this type mutate every 10 months,.. which is why flu vaccines have so little benefit. By the time a vaccine has gone through that long cycle,.. the flu you have become immune to is no longer around. And instead 180 different ones have taken it's place.

Also,.. this will likely be gone forever like SARS, Swine Flu, Bird Flu, etc, etc, etc before a vaccine comes out.

Pinning our hopes on a vacc is silly. We just need to keep the cases down as low as possible for a few months and "hope" this has a season like most other flu's that go away when warm weather hits. Though the spread rate we're seeing in Iran makes that look a bit less likely than with all other flu's. [[Of course Iran has dismal sanitation as compared to the west). So who knows how that will pan out.

[313WX]

Canada just announced they're closing their borders to non-citizens [[apparently US is excluded).

[Bigdd]

This Coronavirus Is Unlike Anything in Our Lifetime, and We Have to Stop Comparing It to the Flu
Longtime health reporter Charles Ornstein says that comparing the novel coronavirus to the flu is dangerously inaccurate. Not one public health expert he trusts has called that comparison valid. Here’s why.
https://www.propublica.org/article/t...-it-to-the-flu

Don't listen to the liars, their surrogates, or those they've fooled.

Dr. Anthony Fauci is pretty much the only one pushing this that hard. The reality is,. the death rate is VASTLY lower than his scare mongering would have you believe.

I know a lot of people in China. First thing to know is, China's tests were only 30% accurate until a month ago. So they were sending people home with false negative diagnosis only to infect others. Also,.. that vastly lowered the number of people with "confirmed" cases. Second,.. much of the southern half of China still does not have or use heat. So dirty water, cold home, shared toilet, poor sanitation, etc. Not good for fighting off a flu.

MOST importantly,.. there are millions with Covid-19 there that haven't been tested. So when you have no clue how many people have it,.. you cannot determine a death rate. The bodies lie there until you count them,.. but the millions that get mild flu symptoms and are fine in a week are impossible to know and count.

South Korea is the best data we have so far [[They've tested 250,000 or so as of Mar 13 [[and are testing 10,000 + a day), and have a fairly advanced medical system comparable to ours),.. and it seems their death rate of "confirmed" cases is something like 0.9%. But it is estimated the number might be more like 0.5% if everyone in the country had gootten a test every week. The 14% or 5% numbers are just total nonsense.

Also,. the test only works while someone is shedding. So once symptoms begin,.. to when they end. If you test someone a week after they recover,.. they will show as not having had it. Making the true numbers even more impossible to know.

So if 0.5% is anywhere close to correct,.. that makes it 2.5 x deadlier than the flu [[which is about 0.2%). Nothing to sneeze at for sure,.. but how many people do you know that die from the flu each year? I've never known one,.. and the flu is every year.

We're doing the right thing,.... keep some distance,.. work from home if you can, close nursing homes to visitors etc,.. but this Fauci guy is almost certainly going to look like a clown in 3 months.

[401don]

Canada just announced they're their borders to non-citizens.

USA is excluded however.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbs...irus-1.5498866