Best Suburbs to Buy a House [[Long-Term Outlook)

**hybridy** · February-13-20, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by gpp1004

Oh-but for sure-GPs restaurants are by and large pretty lousy. I think most of my fellow GPers would agree. Good thing Marrow and Craftwork, and some amazing other Detroit restaurants are just down the road.

Craft Work no más. Bogart'z on Mack always an option if you like consistent mediocrity, or perhaps because I know one of the bartenders

**gpp1004** · February-13-20, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

Craft Work no más. Bogart'z on Mack always an option if you like consistent mediocrity, or perhaps because I know one of the bartenders

Well that's timely. Also unfortunate - one of my favorites. Le sigh. Bogartz' is pretty great for greasy bar food.

**Johnnny5** · February-15-20, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by AmberM

Anyone catch the story in the Freep that Milford schools have budget issues, can't afford to keep their swimming pools open? Always puzzled me that Milford is pleasant but never seemed to boom. GM, nice parks, easy on and off 96, adorable downtown. It's like the big sprawl boom went from Novi, sort of hopped over Milford, and boomed in and around Brighton.

I live in Milford and while it has been seeing a fair amount of development, the main reason for the slower development here has to do with being between the major freeways and having our own water and sewage system [[We're not tied to Detroit for water or sewer, so it limits the scope of what can be built). We also have a very strict village and township boards that are diligent about fighting large building projects that are outside of the long term plans and ordinances [[For the most part). The village did recently let a ridiculous 4 story montrosity go up in town a few years ago, but I think they realized their mistake as they put the kibosh on another attempt just last Fall.

As to the pool issue, that has to do with a community pool that was opened by Huron Valley Schools about 15 years ago. The district itself is on a solid financial footing, the pool issue was an unexpected structural failure of the roof on the building [[The lap pool that the school uses is not affected). It's likely that they'll simply tear the community pool section down and it won't be an ongoing problem. The pool was already a drain on the district's funding, and since there are now multiple other pools nearby for residents it's really no longer needed [[If it really was in the first place).

**MicrosoftFan** · February-18-20, 02:25 PM

Wyandotte needs to take off soon. It would be a huge boon for Downriver as a whole. The ingredients are certainly there with old historic homes, a walkable downtown area, and waterfront property. The schools are decent [[nowhere near GP caliber) but not awful, and if you desire big-box shopping there's a Meijer and Kroger Marketplace next door in Southgate. Not to mention Southland Mall, which has seen something of a resurgence in recent years as Westland and Lakeside among others have started flagging.

**cmubryan** · February-19-20, 06:28 AM

Lived here my whole life..[[I’m 38).

Bought my first house in Huntington Woods 11 years ago during the recession, upgraded 5 years ago and built a house four houses down on a teardown lot. Huntington Woods is in Berkley schools which is rated in the top 10% of MI districts. The elementary is like number 5 or 6 in the state. Very happy here but taxes are high. However, city services are excellent. Solid neighborhood that attracts an educated, professional and more liberal demographic. Not really ethnically diverse however. Grew up in Southfield and West Bloomfield and experienced much more diverse neighborhoods.

**Gistok** · February-19-20, 07:47 AM

Sorry to threadjack... but it is on a related topic...

When the Headlee Amendment passed the proposition vote in the early 1990s, it caused an unintended consequence. Namely... that folks who bought houses before or around that time were sort of "grandfathered". If you bought a house back then, and held onto it [[in suburbs that had major property value increases)... then your taxes are much lower than neighbors that bought their houses in recent years.

The Headley Amendment set annual tax increases to the SEV increase, or 5%, whichever is lower.

So say my house in SCS [[worth about $160K)... I pay about $2000 in annual taxes [[I've been here for 30 years)... but new neighbors of comparable houses will pay $3000+ for a comparable valued house. Sadly this doesn't help in the searching for a new home... but it certainly makes staying put in the same house [[as long as values keep increasing) worthwhile.

So unlike homes in NEZ areas, where real estate taxes will jump up after a set period... for regular [[non-NEZ) homes... as long as you don't move... the lower rates remain.

**Danny** · February-20-20, 12:52 PM

Livonia got some best homes. " If you're not someone else."

**gnome** · February-22-20, 08:45 AM

Throwing in a vote for Wyandotte. It has a cute downtown, solid housing stock, owns its own water/sewer, cabletv/internet, trash and electricity services.

Wha?!

Yeah, like some sort of socialist play land where Bernie and AOC supporters run amok comparing Priuses at the co-op while braiding armpit hair.

Except it isn’t.

Self-reliance seems to be a thing there. I like the town.

**ndavies** · February-22-20, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Sorry to threadjack... but it is on a related topic...

When the Headlee Amendment passed the proposition vote in the early 1990s, it caused an unintended consequence. Namely... that folks who bought houses before or around that time were sort of "grandfathered". If you bought a house back then, and held onto it [[in suburbs that had major property value increases)... then your taxes are much lower than neighbors that bought their houses in recent years.

The Headley Amendment set annual tax increases to the SEV increase, or 5%, whichever is lower.

So say my house in SCS [[worth about $160K)... I pay about $2000 in annual taxes [[I've been here for 30 years)... but new neighbors of comparable houses will pay $3000+ for a comparable valued house. Sadly this doesn't help in the searching for a new home... but it certainly makes staying put in the same house [[as long as values keep increasing) worthwhile.

So unlike homes in NEZ areas, where real estate taxes will jump up after a set period... for regular [[non-NEZ) homes... as long as you don't move... the lower rates remain.

This is not a side affect of the tax reform bill. It was it's primary purpose. At the time it was written many retires and senior citizens were losing there homes due to rapid tax increases. Inflation was low, peoples incomes were stagnant, but taxes were going up like crazy. The bill was specifically designed to stop that happening. The issue is no one predicted the great recession would cause everyone's tax assessments to plummet. Giving everyone an artificially low starting value, that now can only go up by inflation.

**Mind field** · February-22-20, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

I live in Milford and while it has been seeing a fair amount of development, the main reason for the slower development here has to do with being between the major freeways and having our own water and sewage system [[We're not tied to Detroit for water or sewer, so it limits the scope of what can be built). We also have a very strict village and township boards that are diligent about fighting large building projects that are outside of the long term plans and ordinances [[For the most part). The village did recently let a ridiculous 4 story montrosity go up in town a few years ago, but I think they realized their mistake as they put the kibosh on another attempt just last Fall.

What 4 story monstrosity are you referring to? It's better to put these kinds of developments in the core of the village of Milford than to mow down beautiful tree-filled lots like developers have done all over the outskirts of Milford.

**Johnnny5** · February-22-20, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mind field

What 4 story monstrosity are you referring to? It's better to put these kinds of developments in the core of the village of Milford than to mow down beautiful tree-filled lots like developers have done all over the outskirts of Milford.

The Marquette Apartments which are located on the old Iverson's Building Supply location. I have no problem with building and rebuilding in the core of village, but the size and height of this development is far outside of what was supposed to be allowed there. Not to mention the fact that it has a woefully inadequate number of parking spaces and they tore down Milford's circa 1860 train depot to built them.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-22-20, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Sorry to threadjack... but it is on a related topic...

When the Headley Amendment passed the proposition vote in the early 1990s, it caused an unintended consequence. Namely... that folks who bought houses before or around that time were sort of "grandfathered". If you bought a house back then, and held onto it [[in suburbs that had major property value increases)... then your taxes are much lower than neighbors that bought their houses in recent years.

The Headley Amendment set annual tax increases to the SEV increase, or 5%, whichever is lower.

So say my house in SCS [[worth about $160K)... I pay about $2000 in annual taxes [[I've been here for 30 years)... but new neighbors of comparable houses will pay $3000+ for a comparable valued house. Sadly this doesn't help in the searching for a new home... but it certainly makes staying put in the same house [[as long as values keep increasing) worthwhile.

So unlike homes in NEZ areas, where real estate taxes will jump up after a set period... for regular [[non-NEZ) homes... as long as you don't move... the lower rates remain.

The Headley Amendment was the weak attempt to fix Michigan’s Property tax problems way back in 1978 after the first decade of hemorrhaging jobs, capital and people to other parts of the country.

The next FUBAR change of this state's property tax laws which you are referring to, Gistok, was Proposal A in 1994. That was the morons in Lansing's answer to their great fear of a California Proposition 13 type reform. History has proved those idiots dead wrong as Cali prop 13 created a diverse economic boom rarely seen in US history where Michigan continued on the path of complete dependence on its aging industries that where being systematically poached by states with property taxes a mere fraction of Michigan’s. Also worth pointing out that not too long after the 1994 debacle, Michigan spiraled into a decade long 'one state recession'.

Another correction would be that your new SCS neighbors are paying between $3,700 and $4,000 annually on that 160K house depending on the school district. I do realize that you are enjoying the benefit of staying put for 30 years but the reality is that kind of picking winners and losers has been chasing young people with growing family’s right out of state.

I will also mention that your much loved beautiful theaters have pretty much been just rotting into the ground over those fifty years since headlee and the stupid high tax rates played a major role in preventing renovation or preservation.

No worries tho, in Michigan’s constant race to be last at changing anything screwed up we are getting a little closer as the State of Pennsylvania is right now tackling major property tax cuts. Soon there will be only a handful of us rust belt states left that shun new capital investment and the diversification that comes with it like Michigan continues to do with its archaic bureaucratic 1950's style property tax system.

**gnome** · February-26-20, 02:02 PM

Slow your roll, my friend.

Proposal A is called that because the citizens of Michigan voted it in. Not politicians in Lansing.

You may be confused because a guy named Dick Chrysler was behind Prop A, and he later ran for Governor as a Republican, but the reason it passed was because neither political party was answering the call for an equitable solution to tax relief.

I distinctly remember the campaign for Prop A because it showed families who were spending more on property taxes than they were for their mortgages.

**ct_alum** · February-26-20, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Slow your roll, my friend.

Proposal A is called that because the citizens of Michigan voted it in. Not politicians in Lansing.

You may be confused because a guy named Dick Chrysler was behind Prop A, and he later ran for Governor as a Republican, but the reason it passed was because neither political party was answering the call for an equitable solution to tax relief.

I distinctly remember the campaign for Prop A because it showed families who were spending more on property taxes than they were for their mortgages.

I think you mean Richard Headlee, don't recall a Dick Chrysler running for governor but I could be wrong.

**swingline** · February-26-20, 02:49 PM

Continuing with the threadjack. Prop A was not a property tax reform initiative. Prop A was a school funding reform effort. It transformed school funding in Michigan from mostly local sources to mostly state sources. The goal was to fund schools on a more equitable level. It has partially succeeded. On the other hand, Prop 13 arose out of a concern that California residents were getting taxed out of their homes. Prop 13 capped tax rates at approx. 1% of market value with assessment increases also capped at something 1 or 2%.

**LongGone06** · February-26-20, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by DeLemur

You couldn't pay me to live in Troy or Novi, having to cross 16 lanes of road to get anywhere, no thanks. Wyandotte is interesting.

In the late 90's, we moved to Troy for exactly what the original poster is seeking: Most house for the money; good schools; and, long-term upside. My daily commute downtown was usually about 30-35 minutes, and often accomplished on surface streets. Not sure if 20 years has changed those factors, but it was a good move for our family at the time.

**DeLemur** · February-26-20, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by LongGone06

In the late 90's, we moved to Troy for exactly what the original poster is seeking: Most house for the money; good schools; and, long-term upside. My daily commute downtown was usually about 30-35 minutes, and often accomplished on surface streets. Not sure if 20 years has changed those factors, but it was a good move for our family at the time.

Good to hear. Different strokes for different folks.

**Danny** · February-27-20, 06:36 AM

Try, Southfield, Oak Park,Ferndale, Royal Oak TWP. Hazel Park,Warren, Eastpointe,Harper Woods, Grosse Pointe Woods, Grosse Pointe Farms, Grosse Pointe, Grosse Pointe Park, River Rouge, Ecorse, Lincoln Park, Melvindale,Dearborn, Dearborn Heights, Redford TWP. Highland Park and Hamtramck.

**CR75** · February-27-20, 01:00 PM

When rating suburbs, like the OP is asking us to do, I hear a lot of 'good schools' vs. 'bad schools' talk. Schools seem to be a major factor in choosing where to purchase a home. Yet most of these school 'ratings', in my experience, are based on hearsay and dated common sense, mostly correlating with the median income of a particular suburb, or with even more meaningless metrics [[let's not get into that).

To help the OP, I would like to hear some hard facts on why a certain school district is better than others.

For example, I live in Detroit and DPSCD gets constantly vilified by outsiders, yet most of the people I know here are perfectly fine with it. Obviously you have to do your research about each school in the district, they are not all the same. But when you look at the facts, DPSCD' enrollment has been growing a lot recently and is slated to grow in the future along with the city's economic recovery, despite a general climate of decreasing enrollment across Michigan. Most of the legacy debt has been spun off and it's not a burden anymore. It looks like graduates might even be able to attend WSU for free now, which is not a bad choice for a 'safety school', especially if it's free. I actually teach at WSU, and I personally know and trained many past and present high-achieving students coming from DPSCD.

But the OP is asking about the suburbs, so please have at it, I would like to hear what this good vs. bad schools is all about.

**Towne Cluber** · February-27-20, 08:01 PM

Some of the comments about real estate and/or schools on this thread remind me of a topic on here several years ago. Several people on that thread tried to get non-residents to lie to retailers about living in Detroit in an attempt to attract more stores to the city.

**Danny** · February-29-20, 08:38 AM

[QUOTE=gnome;587266]Throwing in a vote for Wyandotte. It has a cute downtown, solid housing stock, owns its own water/sewer, cabletv/internet, trash and electricity services.

Wha?!

Yeah, like some sort of socialist play land where Bernie and AOC supporters run amok comparing Priuses at the co-op while braiding armpit hair.

Except it isn’t.

It's called Wyandotte Socialism. It works in their town. Their hoods are clean, their stores are clean and even their service alleys are clean.

**mtburb** · February-29-20, 08:45 PM

I'd recommend Wyandotte, Southgate, Trenton, Gibraltar or Madison Heights.

**Metro25** · February-29-20, 10:15 PM

Good schools is simply code language for "is the area sufficiently white?". It's got nothing to do with the actual school or the education your child is getting.

This is why I will always side-eye the hell out of anybody who recommends a place based on "good schools". It's revolting and it needs to stop immediately.

**Seven&wyo** · February-29-20, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Metro25

Good schools is simply code language for "is the area sufficiently white?". It's got nothing to do with the actual school or the education your child is getting.

This is why I will always side-eye the hell out of anybody who recommends a place based on "good schools". It's revolting and it needs to stop immediately.

I think good schools just means good schools. Would your rather sense your kids to school in Birmingham or Rural [[insert any state)? Both white, but very different

**Squirtle** · March-01-20, 12:20 AM

Guess I'm a fool as well. I bought a house a few years ago, wanted "good schools" for future children and actually meant it. So if that's the case then what would you consider a proper way to ask others where to buy a home in a good school district?

OP you never told us your budget. If money is no object, the Bloomfields and Birmingham are where I would end up. Troy public schools are great, just be aware that they only kick in once you're north of 16 Mile. Sterling Heights within Utica Community Schools is a great middle income option. Clinton Township has Chippewa Valley and Lanse Creuse
school districts which are great as well and cheaper than the previous school districts.

You mentioned the Grosse Pointes and I considered that area for awhile as well, but it's far from everything on the west side and the taxes were insanely high.