Coronavirus: Threat Beyond Politics [For Political Discussions of CoV]

**oladub** · June-26-20, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

It has to be a combo or the dense bars crowds, beaches, the protests, the riots and looting in various areas to have shot our numbers up like this. What a mess!

Indoor bars are a big problem. Beaches, protesting, rioting and looting don't seem to be a problem. Beer tents and outdoor tables would probably help bars stay open where possible.

I noticed a local McDonalds that had added an extra outdoor line; an investment that seemed to presume that its indoor seating would not be available soon.

A BBC article about the CV spike on the Navaho Reservation in Arizona blamed poverty, geography, and culture as having contributed to the Navho Reservation spike.

One estimate I read was if everyone wore face masks in public places, CV expected deaths could be reduced by about 27%. That seems like a reasonable compromise to open up some businesses. California and Nevada are trying to turn around their recent spikes by enforcing the wearing of masks with fines.

**Zacha341** · June-26-20, 04:31 PM

Fauci pleads with young people who feel 'invulnerable' who they might harm if they catch it at bars, restaurants...

• Florida officials also announced on Friday that the consumption of alcohol at bars across the state was now prohibited as daily infections soared to nearly 9,000 - shattering the daily tolls from the previous two days

• Governor Greg Abbott gave bars in Texas until midday on Friday to close down, while Florida's Department of Business and Professional Regulation told bars to immediately stop serving alcohol on their premises

**Zacha341** · June-27-20, 11:49 AM

Miami will CLOSE beaches Fourth of July weekend after record 9,000 COVID-19 infections in one day and banned drinking in bars

• Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez plans to issue an emergency order closing down the county's beaches during the Fourth of July weekend

• The planned closures come after Florida has seen an uptick in coronavirus infections, with nearly 9,000 new cases reported in the state Thursday

• So far, there have been more than 122,000 cases in Florida of the coronavirus, which has been blamed for more than 3,300 deaths.

**Dumpling** · July-01-20, 06:05 PM

While Michigan's coronavirus cases are trending upwards right now,
the City of Detroit's Coronavirus Dashboard is showing no upward
trend in cases although new cases are still occurring here. Using
the "Diamond Princess Model", maybe about 15% of Detroiters have
had the virus by now. Whether that, along with the precautions that
are being taken, will be enough to stop the pandemic here for good
is not known yet.

**Gistok** · July-01-20, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

While Michigan's coronavirus cases are trending upwards right now,
the City of Detroit's Coronavirus Dashboard is showing no upward
trend in cases although new cases are still occurring here. Using
the "Diamond Princess Model", maybe about 15% of Detroiters have
had the virus by now. Whether that, along with the precautions that
are being taken, will be enough to stop the pandemic here for good
is not known yet.

We would probably need to have folks arriving from the southern states do a 14 day self quarantine... that would likely put a damper on vacation plans for out-of-staters.

Just checked... as of 6/29... there are 471 COVID-19 patients in Michigan hospitals... of which 179 are in ICU.

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 06:04 AM

Amid Virus Surge, Republicans Abruptly Urge Masks Despite Trump’s Resistance

Masks became a political cause for some in the early months of the pandemic. A growing set of Republican leaders are suddenly pushing Americans to wear them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/u...ore-in-us-news

From article:

... as some conservatives and libertarians have made opposition to masks a political cause, Republican governors and others in their party are suddenly trying to send a different message as the pandemic has hit hard in their home states, ending any notion that the coronavirus is not a real menace.

Vice President Mike Pence has abruptly begun regularly wearing and recommending a mask.

“The problem there is that the issue has become a political issue and people have lost sight of the fact that the enemy is the virus,” said Dr. David Persse, the health authority at the Houston Health Department.

“People have decided that the enemy is some sort of a political agenda.”
Initially, many Republicans had followed Mr. Trump’s lead. But the recent chorus of encouragement on mask-wearing has come from all directions.....

**Jimaz** · July-02-20, 06:58 AM

Even Trump is caving. Now he says his mask makes him look like the Lone Ranger. LOL! Fragile ego, meet false bravado.

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 07:18 AM

^^^Meets a virus that does not care: about your politics, rightness of your cause, protest, happy-hour social, your wedding, funeral or church service, picnic or riot, etc. if you don't take some basic precautions.

I've never needed a politician to lead me in the basics of common sense!

**Bigdd** · July-02-20, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

I've never needed a politician to lead me in the basics of common sense!

But, but, but,.. if the president doesn't wear a mask,.. MILLIONS WILL DIE ! Didn't you hear? LOL.

Seriously,.. wearing a mask mostly keeps OTHERS from being infected by the wearer [[and the ones that have the valve on the front don't even do that).

The president is probably tested every couple of days,.. and all his staff are regularly,.. so there's not much point in him wearing one, other than some hollow form of symbolism or comfort for people who are so mentally fragile as to benefit from that sort of thing.

The president wearing or not wearing a mask is just another hollow issue the Dems use to attack him [[and by extension, our country).

**aj3647** · July-02-20, 10:21 AM

Yesterday the U.S. shattered its own ominous record: 50,000+ new cases in just one day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Death toll has now surpassed 130,000 in the United States.

**Gistok** · July-02-20, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

The president wearing or not wearing a mask is just another hollow issue the Dems use to attack him [[and by extension, our country).

I think you have that backwards... if this is just a hollow issue, then why do his MAGA followers slavishly not wear a mask at his OK and AZ rallies? They are doing it as support for the president. Not once at a rally did he say, you folks should be wearing masks. And just look at the video of his volunteers removing the social distancing signs from all those seats in the Tulsa Arena.

Medical professionals and many [[not all) Democrats wear masks because it's just common sense. It's the Republican's who made it political... just look at the spikes in the southern states... whose Republican governors refuse to tell their people "you must wear masks". Only now are they changing course as the infection is turning into a disaster there. Their hospitals are inundated with the COVID-19 patients.

Democrats and MSM are calling them out for fiddling around while the pandemic is getting worse instead of better. So it's only political because we have so many Trump supporters who think that the medical experts should not be trusted... I've heard that from many Trump supporters on other forums. It seems that many MAGA people aren't the most intelligent people on the turnip truck.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/healt...-19/index.html

Wearing a mask should not be a political statement... it is an IQ test!!

**Maof** · July-02-20, 11:26 AM

Trumps says he looks good in a mask and likened himself to the Lone Ranger.............LMAO
https://i.imgflip.com/46yzbg.jpg

**aj3647** · July-02-20, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Bigdd

The president wearing or not wearing a mask is just another hollow issue the Dems use to attack him [[and by extension, our country).

The President literally said that people wearing masks is just a conspiracy to make him look bad. It's not that he won't wear one, the problem is that he's openly ANTI-mask. His own words and actions encourage his supporters to also not wear masks.

Did you not see the pictures of staff removing the "social distancing" stickers from seats at his Tulsa rally? This guy is actively sabotaging public health efforts to stop the spread. He's against masks, he's against testing [[the numbers make him look bad), he's against social distancing, he's against "stay at home" orders and lockdowns, he's against shutting down businesses like bars and restaurants to stop the spread.

Trump is, quite literally, opposed to every single common sense basic public health measure designed to stop infectious disease outbreaks. So it must just be a magical coincidence why the USA is the worst nation on Earth for COVID and why Europe and Canada won't let Americans in right now.

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 12:11 PM

Uh, oh. You've got the WRONG person! I'm not that fool.

I don't support the 'MILLIONS WILL DIE!' exaggeration.

Or the:

'It's just the flu...000.0000 yah-dah... percent' negation [[I know better as a Detroiter - were we filled the body bags, March thru April).

I have made that clear across at least four threads multiple times.

The truth and sensible response and leadership therein should have reflected a balance between the extremes.

Without the negation. Period.

Trump could have saved himself the additional scorning by presenting a perspective less dividing. Yes, YES, I GET that he has haters [[and dividers against him) but that does not excuse his continued self-induced 'hole' digging - increasing the size of his shovel [[as I've detailed in other threads).

Beyond the endless argumentation [[for certain in the hospital settings) masks helps the wearer as one encounters the wear-ee [[smile) per the who you come into close contact with.

You know this as you helped secure/ distribute masks to those who needed them when the COVID first started in March? It just about taking basic precautions sans all the negation.

Again I am so glad I don't need the affirmation of politics to use common sense.

If Donald Trump looses to a clearly weakened Biden, his response to the COVID [[especially the careless verbal commentary) will have had a large impact!

Historically, incumbent presidents are always blamed full-out for national problems if they occur too close their election time.

Originally Posted by Bigdd

But, but, but,.. if the president doesn't wear a mask,.. MILLIONS WILL DIE ! Didn't you hear? LOL.

Seriously,.. wearing a mask mostly keeps OTHERS from being infected by the wearer [[and the ones that have the valve on the front don't even do that).

The president is probably tested every couple of days,.. and all his staff are regularly,.. so there's not much point in him wearing one, other than some hollow form of symbolism or comfort for people who are so mentally fragile as to benefit from that sort of thing.

The president wearing or not wearing a mask is just another hollow issue the Dems use to attack him [[and by extension, our country).

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 12:34 PM

Seems to me both sides have had a part, sizable and self-justified.

For the far left there was not a riot that could not find some form of justification or righteousness. As I mention the COVID really DON'T care about the rightness, justness or timeframe of your careless gathering.

Here in Detroit our protests for example were smaller, with more masks and in some case there was an attempt to distance including a couple of motor-cade protests where social distancing was getter achieved one could argue but not so good for the carbon-foot print....sigh...

...

As I've noted Trump's brave standing about at those rallies -- boldly. There's no politician/ leader on earth I'd stand at a rally for now. None.

Viruses [[impartial microbes they are) don't care who you are. I guess he likes taken that horrid brain-flame, painful nasal swap alot. As do his staff!

Originally Posted by Gistok

....It's the Republican's who made it political... just look at the spikes in the southern states... whose Republican governors refuse to tell their people "you must wear masks". Only now are they changing course as the infection is turning into a disaster there. Their hospitals are inundated with the COVID-19 patients.

Democrats and MSM are calling them out for fiddling around while the pandemic is getting worse instead of better. So it's only political because we have so many Trump supporters who think that the medical experts should not be trusted...

**Bigdd** · July-02-20, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Uh, oh. You've got the WRONG person! I'm not that fool.

Oops,.. I'M SORRY. I meant it sarcastically. Ha, ha. [[Note the LOL at the end of the first line.)

I know you're not "that guy".

**Bigdd** · July-02-20, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

So it's only political because we have so many Trump supporters who think that the medical experts should not be trusted...

Wearing a mask should not be a political statement... it is an IQ test!!

To be fair,.. the medical professionals have been wrong almost 1/2 the time.

And this is not new. The medical industry reverses itself all the time.

Drug x is considered safe one day, then suddenly it's decided it's lethal, and is removed from the market [[often just after the patent has run out and the manufacturer has made their money).

3 months ago they were crying for ventilators, blissfully ignorant that they are more likely to kill than save. 88% of the patients that were put on them died. Somehow the medical profession didn't realize that traumatizing the lungs while they are brittle was a bad idea. Later they realized what was common sense to the rest of us,.. that O2 pumped through a CPAP was a MUCH less destructive way to get O2 into a patients blood. [[Pres trump MORE correct on that one than the doctors were)

Gloves! We need gloves! ... Later,.. it's not very contagious from surfaces.

The virus is active for days on a surface! Spray everything with alcohol! Later,.. well,.. it's technically active for a day or so,.. but not contagious after a few minutes. Gloves not so important, and no need to spray your deliveries and mail with alcohol.

Hydroxychloroquin not effective, dangerous. Later, it's effective. [[Pres trump MORE correct on that one than the doctors were) http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/heal...b7Kz&ocid=iehp

Fauci. Masks not needed. Later,.. masks needed. [[Pres trump LESS correct on that one than the doctors were)

Biden the day Trump closed flights from China [[Trump xenophobic etc). Later,.. Pelosi and others bashing Trump for weak and ineffective response. [[Pres Trump MORE effective than the Dems would have been)

And on and on and on.

[[And overall the President has a pretty good batting average on this. No one can know everything in advance, but the president seems to have outperformed most of the "Experts" out there).

As far as smarts,.. the smart thing to do is for the LEAST vulnerable to get it and get over it,.. so they can go on with their lives, support the economy, gain some heard immunity, and NOT give Covid to the vulnerable.

ALSO,.... PROTECT the vulnerable! [[Not stuff thousands of Covid patients into senior care centers.)

But I agree that it is silly to be in a crowd IF you've not already had it,... and beyond stupid if you do that and have vulnerable people in your household.

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 04:56 PM

Yeah my bad BDD. I think the heat is getting to me a bit today ...

... !

Originally Posted by Bigdd

Oops,.. I'M SORRY. I meant it sarcastically. Ha, ha. [[Note the LOL at the end of the first line.)

I know you're not "that guy".

**Zacha341** · July-02-20, 05:06 PM

Yeah I am not the biggest Fauci fan along the spectrum of the COVID scene. Sometimes he comes off but another medical 'politician' from the royal enclosure: pulled out or dismissed as needed to manage the masses.

Like Columbo I look at 'motive' when assessing those standing behind the shiny podiums with letters by their name/ stripes on their shoulders and the like. Not anti-medicine, nope. But very cautious none the less.

For some the 'doctors' have become their new priests, profits [[prophets) and the like. Historically we've had very bad policy endorsements and blessings come from the eh, on high medical 'establishment'.

I don't need a DR to serve as my replacement religious figure-head. I'm ok on that level. No need for a substitute.

Originally Posted by Bigdd

To be fair... the medical professionals have been wrong almost 1/2 the time.

And this is not new. The medical industry reverses itself all the time....

**oladub** · July-02-20, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Yesterday the U.S. shattered its own ominous record: 50,000+ new cases in just one day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Death toll has now surpassed 130,000 in the United States.

...and if you would have scrolled down the same page little further, you would have come across a graph titled:
"Daily New Deaths in the United States".

According to that graph, the latest 7 day average for CV deaths is -
Numbers in parenthesis is daily case for entire world
2,255[[7,226) deaths per day on April 21 [[zenith of 7 day US death rates)
1,983[[5684) deaths per day on May 1
1,028[[3078) deaths per day on June 1
628[[5053) deaths per day on June 24 [[one week ago)
560[[4,847) deaths per day on July 1

The death rate is going down at a faster rate in the United States than in the world. On July 1, the seven day average of U.S. deaths are 25% of what they were on April 21. Worldwide, on July 1, deaths are 67% as great as they were on April 21.

The number of deaths in the U.S. keeps going down nationally while the number of new cases is going up. Bars seem to be the biggest driver of the uptick in new cases. Some states are responding by restricting and closing bars. That seems more reasonable and useful than flapping about pretending that Trump invented Corona Virus. As we open up, we find out what works and what doesn't work and respond accordingly. The protests showed us that outdoor gatherings are pretty safe compared to indoor activities. Candidates could probably have outdoor rallies but indoor rallies are dangerous.

That new cases are going up in the US at the same time that deaths are going down is partially explained by more testing which detects asymptomatic cases. Of over 200 countries listed by worldometer, the U.S. tests the 27th most per million. A bigger reason might be that so many Americans in their 20's test positive. Its the barhopping, not the protests. They tend to be asymptomatic and less likely to die.

**Maof** · July-02-20, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

Even Trump is caving. Now he says his mask makes him look like the Lone Ranger. LOL! Fragile ego, meet false bravado.

Guess I didn't see this post and I repeated what you said. Oops...

**Jimaz** · July-02-20, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by Maof

Guess I didn't see this post and I repeated what you said. Oops...

Oh no, yours was much better. I had forgotten that the Lone Ranger wore his mask over his eyes. But his had eyeholes he could see through. Trump is forever blindfolded by his ignorance. That's a waaaay more appropriate metaphor.

BTW, you can post the image directly without the link by typing [img]https://i.imgflip.com/46yzbg.jpg[/img] which gives:

So I think the lesson is that someone had to explain to Trump how he could save face by depicting himself as an iconic [[albeit fictional) American hero by wearing any kind of mask anywhere on his face. LOL!

It's like the time no one bothered to warn him of the optics of having toilet paper dragging behind his shoe or leaving an open umbrella outside the plane.

Jerks get that kind of revenge from passive aggressive underlings.

**Zacha341** · July-03-20, 06:19 AM

More unnecessary [[hole digging) Tweeting, hedging against an impartial virus [[claiming that c-virus death is down) that cares little about an election!

I am hoping the actual death rates reduce as compared to the increased numbers of those testing positive. But I'd not gamble my career making absolute statements this early. These absolute claims have jacked him before!

Donald Trump claims the coronavirus death rate is down, despite data showing it's rising, and insists again that the surge in infections is due to 'massive' testing

President Donald Trump tweeted late Thursday that the coronavirus 'death rate is down'
Startling data, including a record 53,000 new cases Thursday, points towards another rise in fatalities
Hospitalizations are also rising, with around 35,000 currently sick up from a low of 27,000 in mid-June
It takes two to four weeks for a fatal COVID-19 patient to die, on average, meaning deaths could spike soon .....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ING-again.html

**Zacha341** · July-03-20, 04:45 PM

You can just smell the poli-tricks coming off this stuff...

Sour grapes: Cali gov. Newsom shuts down wineries in 19 counties hit hard by COVID19 - but keeps his OWN tasting room in Napa open...

Family Gatherings ‘Biggest Concern’ For Newsom Over Weekend

**Gistok** · July-03-20, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

You can just smell the poli-tricks coming off this stuff...

Sour grapes: Cali gov. Newsom shuts down wineries in 19 counties hit hard by COVID19 - but keeps his OWN tasting room in Napa open...

Family Gatherings ‘Biggest Concern’ For Newsom Over Weekend

What the headlines don't tell you [[but is located in much smaller letters on the page) is this....

"But order did not apply to Napa County, which has seen fewer COVID-19 cases"