Coronavirus: Threat Beyond Politics [For Political Discussions of CoV]

[softailrider]

The walleye are running, Zacha341. Grab a pole and head down to the end of 12th St.!

They sure don’t have any walleye over at Meijers, tried that today.

[Richard]

Whether or not the virus entered the U.S. from China or Europe, the whole "Trump banned flights from China" is nonsense as far as protecting the U.S. is concerned. 450,000 Americans returned from China after the ban and scattered around the country. There was zero screening of symptoms or quarantining.

You posted that knowing full well it would get moved.

Earlier Friday, officials said Americans who evacuated from Wuhan earlier in the week would be quarantined for up to 14 days at March Air Reserve Base in California — the first mandatory quarantine order in the U.S. in 50 years, according to NPR.

https://www.westernjournal.com/trump...tine-50-years/

We do not know if somebody wanting to avoid the quarantine took another flight to Canada and then crossed into the US from there,but it is all silly anyways,we will never know who patient 1 was or be able track every single person involved,it was coming and nobody could have stopped it.

[Zozo]

Bye bye "Chinese Virus"?

"Two separate teams of researchers tracing the coronavirus outbreak in the States have concluded that the virus originated in travellers from Europe, not China, the New York Times reported Wednesday.

"Studies found that the virus was entering the country via flights to New York from Europe, weeks before Trump implemented a ban on travellers from China on January 31. By the time he stopped travel from Europe in mid-March, thousands of people were already infected."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/s...e-genomes.html

This is so absurd. The virus did not "originate" in Europe, or on airplanes, or via European travelers. The C-virus originated in China and no where else. By the logic of the NYT, we should call it the Canadian virus because Justine Trudeau travelled to several African counties in February and he brought the virus with him to North America and shortly thereafter his wife tested positive.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Probably not even frozen fish-sticks. Or a lone bent can of mackerel!!----

[Colombian Dan]

The Communist Chinese government bears sole responsibility for this global catastrophe. Human life to the Communists means nothing. 50 million killed under Mao during the Great Leap Forward.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Mao. What? Right-winged propaganda! Why are you bringing up old stuff?

Capitalism is the only system worthy of criticism [[current, past or future).

[canuck]

^^^ Mao. What? Right-winged propaganda! Why are you bringing up old stuff?

Capitalism is the only system worthy of criticism [[current, past or future).

I suppose I read some irony in your post, but really, Capitalism is the only system left to criticize apart from the leftover hard communist states of North Korea, and Cuba.

China is all out capitalist with a dictatorship at the helm, only communist in name. The Russians have dispensed with the notion of communist rule altogether.

[CassTechGrad]

Now if someone doesn’t know Dana Nessel very well, then when they read this tweet they may get the impression that she’s not concerned if the white deplorables die from the virus and that she believes that there aren’t any black folks who like to play golf. Now I’m not saying that she thinks this way, I’m just saying that I could see someone getting that impression.

[DeLemur]

That's one tough lady.

Now if someone doesn’t know Dana Nessel very well, then when they read this tweet they may get the impression that she’s not concerned if the white deplorables die from the virus and that she believes that there aren’t any black folks who like to play golf. Now I’m not saying that she thinks this way, I’m just saying that I could see someone getting that impression.

[Richard]

Well she did say she could be trusted in a professional situation,because she did not have a penis.

Sometimes you just have to consider the source.

Now is when you will see the best of people and the worst of people,the ones that will run into the fire and those who will run from it and those who will remain calm while others around them are losing their heads.

You just have to put your filters on and give relevance to those that really matter.

[Zozo]

Now if someone doesn’t know Dana Nessel very well, then when they read this tweet they may get the impression that she’s not concerned if the white deplorables die from the virus and that she believes that there aren’t any black folks who like to play golf. Now I’m not saying that she thinks this way, I’m just saying that I could see someone getting that impression.

The gay Jew letting white people know how she really feels about them. I guess she didn't see the many viral videos of black "youth" breaking quarantine to beat the crap out of each other. Imagine the response if she tweeted something like, "I just can't hear about another white nurse getting sick from these black kids breaking quarantine to be on the Lodge wit it wildin' out for World Star Hiphop likes." Today she is e-begging on Twitter for volunteer medical workers... "We need help." Racist and inept.

[Zacha341]

Ridiculous, if she said that.

Just swapping prejudice for one identity over another. With a side helping of virtue signaling.

Never let a crisis go wasted for politics!

Well she did say she could be trusted in a professional situation, because she did not have a penis.

[Richard]

Ridiculous, if she said that.

Just swapping prejudice for one identity over another. With a side helping of virtue signaling.

Never let a crisis go wasted for politics!

https://marriedbiography.com/jewish-...eral-michigan/

[Jimaz]

Proponents of restarting the economy, at the expense of any humanitarian cost necessary, need to be made aware of their own worst nightmare — regardless of humanitarian cost.

Consider that there is not yet any vaccine. Like it or not, our only tool at this point is slowing the infection spread.

Prematurely restarting the economy could set us back to square one. At that point the economic cost would begin accumulating yet again for a second, doubling, pass.

By restarting the economy too early, the risk of reigniting the pandemic could possibly double the already immense cost — regardless of humanitarianism.

Think before you leap or you may regret the cost.

[Dan Wesson]

Epoch times authoritative american chinese publication...

“Tracking Down the Origin of Wuhan Coronavirus.” [[Courtesy Epoch Times)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bXWGxhd7ic

[Zacha341]

Yep. The humanitarian vs. economic costs seems to vary in importance depending on who you talk to.

Proponents of restarting the economy, at the expense of any humanitarian cost necessary, need to be made aware of their own worst nightmare — regardless of humanitarian cost...

[Honky Tonk]

Epoch times authoritative american chinese publication...

“Tracking Down the Origin of Wuhan Coronavirus.” [[Courtesy Epoch Times)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bXWGxhd7ic

A little too much video drama for my taste, but definitely a plausible scenario. I never did totally buy in to the outdoor market explanation.

[Richard]

My friend in the UK has a son 28,he caught the virus,recovered and is now back to work as a OTR truck driver.

We live in a large country,it is hard to tell eras less infected that they should kill their economic means.

In Fl picking season is here,crops are picked and rotting on the docks,thousands of gallons of milk are being dumped daily.

Because of the closure of schools,restaurants theme parks etc. and produce not being a transport priority,veggies are dumped.

One grower had over 40,000 cases of fresh picked Ruskin tomatoes,the big sandwich size that are not pumped up with nitrogen,offered them to the public at $5 for a 20# box and sold 1/2 million pounds in one day.

My restaurants are still open but operating at a 20% drop because we were always take out oriented,now looking to add a few more locations as others drop out.

The problem is our restaurant supplier place has now opened to the general public and is making supplies hard to get,mostly chicken.

Strange enough our “hood store” which is 1/2 the size of a super wal-mart has fully stocked shelves and at least 50 cases of TP in the corner,where as the Wal-Mart has empty shelves and no TP.

The problem now is service workers are Looking at collecting the unemployment + the extra $600 per week and deciding to milk it for as long as possible,there is no incentive to return to work until that runs out.

Even if they said,everybody return to work tomorrow it would still take months in order to gear back up,it’s not like you could just flip the switch back on.

There are still over 300 million Americans spread out over an entire country that are at little risk.

Interesting how all of those who were dying from the whole vaping epidemic have all of the sudden disappeared.

[Dumpling]

Coronavirus really made the vaping problem "go away", didn't it. Though appropriate measures were being attempted for that which was kind of a trial run for the COVID-19 epidemic response.

Well, checking the latest Michigan statistics.

For Saturday April 11, 2020, for Michigan there is:

23,993 confirmed cases and 1,392 deaths so there is a 5.8% case fatality ratio [[CFR) officially for the State of Michigan.

For Saturday April 11 for the City of Detroit proper, there are 6,395 cases and 345 deaths. The CFR for the City of Detroit is 5.4%.

Using the projection that there is one asymptomatic case at least for every known case, and using the Diamond Princess 1.6% CFR, there are an estimated 87,000 persons in the State of Michigan, which would be just under 1% of the general population that are carrying the coronavirus right now. [[Taking the 1,392 deaths and dividing that number by the 0.016 from the Diamond Princess data).

For Detroit, 345 divided by 0.016 gives about 21,500 as a probable true case count. That's about 3.2% of the city's population, maybe a percent higher than before.

However there does seem to be a leveling in the number of cases with the sharp upswing in cases not there any more, at least for the time being.

[Dumpling]

A family member emailed me about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_Death_Study

In the Million Death Study, being done in India, family members are asked about the symptoms of their deceased and doctors then look over the resulting "Verbal Autopsy" to assess a cause of death for those who passed at home rather than in a hospital type of setting.

The timing of the query definitely relates to the fact that testing is broadly insufficient for the coronavirus, not just here in Michigan, but globally.

The United States has the MMWR [[Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) from the CDC. The Report regularly refers to "Laboratory Confirmed" cases of COVID-19. Calling these known cases that is an implicit nod to the idea that not all cases of COVID-19 are confirmed.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6915e4_w

So should we be thinking about Verbal Autopsies as an official practice here in the State of Michigan or elsewhere in the United States?

[Richard]

I think the biggest problem is because the Feds are picking up the tab we will never know the true numbers,are we seeing an uptick of sorts in low income eras because if they say it is virus related the Feds pick up the tab,break your toe after running,the hospital can say you were running from the virus and get reimbursed.

If you were considered a charity case,no insurance etc in the past then now they can contribute it to the virus and get reimbursed by the Feds.

In NY the epicenter is where the charity hospitals are,we are not seeing the number of cases outside of the epicenters equal to the so called paid hospitalization centers,even though all virus related is reimbursed.

My little non scientific study is the most cases and the most deaths revolve around cities that have charity hospitals,we are not seeing the numbers in the paid sector.

In Fl we do not have charity hospitals,we have state/local funded clinics who then refer you to a hospital if necessary.

When we see the epicenters across the country they seem to be centered around locations that have charity hospitals.How come we are not seeing the same numbers coming out of the private hospital aspect?

With past hurricane experience it is usually the stance of the Feds, when a disaster is declared ,they just cut checks because they do not want to be seen as the bad guy in a time of need.

Look at NY,from day one it was all about getting ventilators,every day on the news we need this now.

Now we know that it was not about ventilators because they had plenty but they were stocked by the private hospitals and not the charity hospitals at the epicenter.

Then the governor says,I am going to start confiscating them from the private sector,all of the sudden they had plenty.

To me anyways when you look at the hardest hit across the world,the countries that have socialized health care,collapsed,as we are seeing in this country,the cities that have their charity hospitals are the ones where the majority of cases are centered.

What we do not know 100% is because of their lack of funding from the start how many cases are truly virus related.

The Feds in a time of disaster have a habit of just cutting checks and sorting out the details later because it looks bad if they do not.

One hospital was called out,they ordered 10,000 masks,the the next order was for 300,000,because they wanted them for free from the Feds in order to resell them on the open market for profit.

That is the politics of a declared disaster,the Feds will just cut checks no questions asked and sort it out later,mostly later never comes,because they do not want to be seen as the bad guy during a crisis.

The downside of it is,you never get a true picture of what is actually going on.

[Dumpling]

Does Michigan even have charity hospitals per se? Hospitals in general have some fraction of their clientele which cannot pay their bills. While briefly researching this situation I came across a Michigan Medicine [[U-Michigan Health System) article which stated that the Medicaid Expansion in Michigan reduced the amount of money hospitals in this state had to spend, or did not receive, for caring for low-income patients or those otherwise unable to pay for services rendered.

https://www.uofmhealth.org/news/arch...-half-michigan

[Zacha341]

^^^ HFHS, St. John, DMC, Beaumont all take indigent patients, and allow those to apply for varied insurances including medicaid, ACA, etc.

[Dumpling]

In earlier decades here in Michigan, hospitals that served mostly very low income residents tended to close. I'm thinking especially of that one in Southwest Detroit that sat empty for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southw...troit_Hospital

It is true that most if not all Michigan hospitals will take indigent patients. It is also true that even with low-income residents the hospitals will be diligent about collecting what payments they can. That isn't true charity, like maybe St. Jude's, where all costs are covered by donors to the hospital.

I just don't think there are any true charity hospitals left here in Michigan at this point in time.

[Richard]

Federal government also kicks in for indigent care,But this is a declared emergency so any and all costs are reimbursed by the Feds,indigent or not.

So the hospitals have a tendency to tie things into the virus in order to get paid from the Feds and claim numbers that are not necessarily correct,if you have a low insurance rated city they will try and tie as much to the virus as possible in order to get paid.

If you are jogging down the street and trip and skin your knee and go to the hospital,it would be claimed as a virus related accident because in theory,if the virus was not here,you would be at work and not out jogging.

So it becomes virus related and care compensated by the Feds before your insurance company,the Feds are not going to audit because they will be seen as the bad guy during a crisis.

That is why it is hard to nail down an exact infection rate,when the Feds open up the checkbook like this it becomes a free for all money grab,unless you are the one lying in the hospital bed.