UM to Partner with Gilbert on Innovation Center at Fail Jail Site

**Atticus** · July-14-21, 02:45 PM

Failure to launch.

**313WX** · July-14-21, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

Failure to launch.

Come again?

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · July-14-21, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Come again?

It’s not happening at the fail jail site. Cancelled there, but they *claim* it will be built elsewhere in Detroit. At some point.

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...te/7965984002/

**Atticus** · July-14-21, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...te/7965984002/

It’s not happening at the fail jail site. Cancelled there, but they *claim* it will be built elsewhere in Detroit. At some point.

Skippers Rule.

Ever since Mullen, Ketai, and Cullen left, there seems to be little progress on new projects.

The Hudson site, which Cullen was basically able to get started just before he left, seems to be the last project that has gotten off the ground. Obviously not all gloom as there is still ongoing progress at the new County justice facility, Book Tower renovation, and City Modern, but again those projects all started before the aforementioned crew left.

Since then, nothing new has really happened… and the Monroe Blocks and UM Innovation Sites have failed to materialize. Seems more than a coincidence.

**kuuma** · July-14-21, 03:35 PM

this is so disappointing. i bike past this site every day and daydream about how much activity a college campus would bring, plus with the new post-375 boulevard filled with new housing, retail, etc. i just don't get it. the site is a huge prime blank slate with so many great looking conceptual renders for it. the chasm between eastern market/lafayette park and downtown is just so vexing and disappointing, and now it's gonna remain...

**Gistok** · July-14-21, 03:53 PM

I am more upset about the Monroe Block development not taking off, than I am about the U of M development on the Fail Jail site.

If Ross says that the Fail Jail site doesn't have enough space for future expansion... then maybe he is right. Anyway, I was just studying Google Earth, and the TechTown area around the old Burroughs HQ in Milwaukee Junction wouldn't be a bad place to put a campus. Maybe they could get the massive Burroughs HQ building and expand from that. There are huge parking lots surrounding that complex... and a U of M Center there would tie New Center & College for Creative Studies together with TechTown, the southern expansion of the Henry Ford campus, and WSU.

Also, I don't think that any one personality really affects developments all that much. Cullen used to work for GM and for the Ilitches. GM got their HQ revamped, but no new expansions of a riverfront village to the east. And his time with the Ilitches... he probably got his development ideas squashed by the Ilitches love for parking lots.

I think that once we get back to normal in a post pandemic business climate... that there are other great uses for the 34 acre Fail Jail site along Gratiot... and hopefully no Soccer Stadium.

**313WX** · July-14-21, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

Skippers Rule.

Ever since Mullen, Ketai, and Cullen left, there seems to be little progress on new projects.

The Hudson site, which Cullen was basically able to get started just before he left, seems to be the last project that has gotten off the ground. Obviously not all gloom as there is still ongoing progress at the new County justice facility, Book Tower renovation, and City Modern, but again those projects all started before the aforementioned crew left.

Since then, nothing new has really happened… and the Monroe Blocks and UM Innovation Sites have failed to materialize. Seems more than a coincidence.

In all fairness, there was also a pandemic that led to a severe recession as well after they left.

As you're well aware, Detroit's always the last to recover from downturns.

**kuuma** · July-14-21, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I am more upset about the Monroe Block development not taking off, than I am about the U of M development on the Fail Jail site.

If Ross says that the Fail Jail site doesn't have enough space for future expansion... then maybe he is right. Anyway, I was just studying Google Earth, and the TechTown area around the old Burroughs HQ in Milwaukee Junction wouldn't be a bad place to put a campus. Maybe they could get the massive Burroughs HQ building and expand from that. There are huge parking lots surrounding that complex... and a U of M Center there would tie New Center & College for Creative Studies together with TechTown, the southern expansion of the Henry Ford campus, and WSU.

That would be a smart place for it. I was also Google Earthing to look at that spot Ross just bought around Charlotte and 3rd Ave.. there's a lot of open space there too for a campus, which might catalyze infilling the vacant end of Midtown and rehabbing those gorgeous apartment buildings north of the Masonic. I wonder if Gilbert starts hustling right outside Illitch's turf, if that would clown Chris enough that he'd start taking his "district" seriously...

edit: re: Gratiot site, honestly i'd be down to see them build the previous plan from before the DCI was announced. has a Monroe Blocks vibe to it: https://www.bedrockdetroit.com/property/gratiot-site/

**401don** · July-14-21, 04:27 PM

14 acres wasn't enough when they were starting with one building using a very small footprint? This has excuse written all over it.

**Satiricalivory** · July-14-21, 04:42 PM

They're moving it to a new site in Detroit. Apparently the Gratiot site wasn't big enough.

Here's a good article on it.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2021/07/14/ross-wont-build-detroit-center-innovation-um-old-jail-site/7965020002/

“I am more committed than ever to deliver my vision of an innovation hub in my hometown, and I reaffirm my commitment to the people of Detroit and the University of Michigan to create inclusive growth that propels job creation, affordable housing development and historic preservation for all Detroiters. We’re planning to move the DCI to a new location in the city with more space to ensure that we deliver.”

- Ross

**Gistok** · July-14-21, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by kuuma

That would be a smart place for it. I was also Google Earthing to look at that spot Ross just bought around Charlotte and 3rd Ave.. there's a lot of open space there too for a campus, which might catalyze infilling the vacant end of Midtown and rehabbing those gorgeous apartment buildings north of the Masonic. I wonder if Gilbert starts hustling right outside Illitch's turf, if that would clown Chris enough that he'd start taking his "district" seriously...

Yeah... that Charlotte and 3rd Ave. site for Ross to develop did seem odd to me... right on the periphery of Ilitchville. That too would be a great place to build a U of M tech center... if they can pry the land from Chris Ilitch's cold dead fingers...

**Satiricalivory** · July-14-21, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Atticus

Skippers Rule.

Ever since Mullen, Ketai, and Cullen left, there seems to be little progress on new projects.

The Hudson site, which Cullen was basically able to get started just before he left, seems to be the last project that has gotten off the ground. Obviously not all gloom as there is still ongoing progress at the new County justice facility, Book Tower renovation, and City Modern, but again those projects all started before the aforementioned crew left.

Since then, nothing new has really happened… and the Monroe Blocks and UM Innovation Sites have failed to materialize. Seems more than a coincidence.

This isn't true, they started renovation on 1225 Woodward Ave.

I'm not sure what more you want from Bedrock, they are doing an insane amount of development in the city that is ongoing. They've also just finished up huge projects like the Free Press building.

**Danny** · July-14-21, 04:53 PM

I have seen the news article. Gilbert needs to knock it off with the ' We are going to build a fantastic building and make Downtown[[Gilberttown) Detroit great again.' Now that failed Wayne Co. Jail Site is back to drawing board. If you can't agree with your investors, don't plan to build. If I was an investor for Gilbert, I want your building done in 2 years or will pull my money elsewhere. I will forgive you for any national crisis, but when we have a civilization again start building.

You're not Donald Trump, Mr. Gilbert, that is why I warn you not to be too fast on buying and selling any capital properties.

**Satiricalivory** · July-14-21, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Yeah... that Charlotte and 3rd Ave. site for Ross to develop did seem odd to me... right on the periphery of Ilitchville. That too would be a great place to build a U of M tech center... if they can pry the land from Chris Ilitch's cold dead fingers...

That would honestly be a miracle. I would be so happy if Ross somehow is able to buy Ilitch land and build his campus on it. Would be a dream come true.

**shawring** · July-14-21, 05:29 PM

The best location would be the Uni Royal is notorious GM lot in-between Atwater and franklin, both eyesores

**JK313** · July-14-21, 05:31 PM

https://www.freep.com/story/news/edu...ct/7971987002/

Supposedly Ross has been talking with Chris Ilitch about building it on some of the lots behind the Fox. I wouldn’t put much faith it going their considering it’s the Ilitches but who knows. Would completely transform that area though.

**Atticus** · July-14-21, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

This isn't true, they started renovation on 1225 Woodward Ave.

I'm not sure what more you want from Bedrock, they are doing an insane amount of development in the city that is ongoing. They've also just finished up huge projects like the Free Press building.

Bedrock has done incredible things for the city. Even if Bedrock never built or renovated another project again, Dan Gilbert and crew would still be heroes in my book. My concern is more about Bedrock having new leadership, and whether that new leadership can maintain, and hopefully build upon, the momentum of the wonderful projects of their predecessors.

As 313WX alluded too, there is the pandemic that the new leadership has had to deal with. That being said, excuses can only be used for so long. So it is more of a relative comparison of current leadership vs previous leadership that I am alluding too, as opposed to Bedrock as a whole temporally. The jury is still out… but at some point I hope to see them start something new, or at least actually start on the Monroe Blocks.

**K-slice** · July-14-21, 09:57 PM

This sounds dead to me. Hope I'm wrong but the quote from Ross is peppered with buzz words with basically no details. "Inclusive growth, affordable housing, historic preservation", wanna throw a bone to another interest group? It reeks of appeasement, and what do these things even have to do with an "innovation center"???

The excuse of the site not being large enough also makes little sense to me. This site is a blank state and Bedrock is handing Ross the chalk to create what he wants. Now he suddenly wants to wrangle one of the other vacant areas in the city away from potentially multiple private interests? I don't buy it.

Lastly, the current status of Hudson Yards can't be ignored. The development is languishing basically since it opened, full of vacant condos and empty retail. It's perfectly feasible that Ross expected to have that project paying its own way at this point and the financials just aren't making sense now.

**Gistok** · July-14-21, 10:30 PM

^ Well part of the problem is the pandemic... as it is for all projects.

Here's a video about it. It does remind me of the Renaissance Center.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUoj9vHwvi0

**masterblaster** · July-15-21, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by K-slice

This sounds dead to me. Hope I'm wrong but the quote from Ross is peppered with buzz words with basically no details. "Inclusive growth, affordable housing, historic preservation", wanna throw a bone to another interest group? It reeks of appeasement, and what do these things even have to do with an "innovation center"???The excuse of the site not being large enough also makes little sense to me. This site is a blank state and Bedrock is handing Ross the chalk to create what he wants. Now he suddenly wants to wrangle one of the other vacant areas in the city away from potentially multiple private interests? I don't buy it. Lastly, the current status of Hudson Yards can't be ignored. The development is languishing basically since it opened, full of vacant condos and empty retail. It's perfectly feasible that Ross expected to have that project paying its own way at this point and the financials just aren't making sense now.

The inspiration for Detroit Center of Innovation is not Hudson Yards. The inspiration is the Cornell Tech Development on Roosevelt Island.

https://tech.cornell.edu/campus/

Seems like Roosevelt Island is doing fine

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/17/n...d-tourism.html

The restaurant would be part of Graduate, Roosevelt Island’s first hotel, which opened this month. The property is on the campus of Cornell Tech, a hub for cutting-edge graduate students in tech, design, law and business, which opened four years ago.

Roosevelt Island’s First Hotel to Open On Cornell Tech Campus

**Richard** · July-15-21, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

I have seen the news article. Gilbert needs to knock it off with the ' We are going to build a fantastic building and make Downtown[[Gilberttown) Detroit great again.' Now that failed Wayne Co. Jail Site is back to drawing board. If you can't agree with your investors, don't plan to build. If I was an investor for Gilbert, I want your building done in 2 years or will pull my money elsewhere. I will forgive you for any national crisis, but when we have a civilization again start building.

You're not Donald Trump, Mr. Gilbert, that is why I warn you not to be too fast on buying and selling any capital properties.

It’s a 300 million project,do not forget the anything over 75 million has to contribute millions more to “community investment “ an investor will say,okay it costs us 300 million for this project plus and additional up to 25 million in community investment,where is my return on that 25 million,it’s not chump change and it costs us 25 million less to invest in any other city in the country.

Not exact numbers but that is the jist of it,that whole COD exclusive experiment caps projects at the 75 million mark,and discourages projects like this.

The first clue should have been that no other city in the country has a penalty program like that,they are placing the social programs on the investors verses the city creating programs based on the ability to raise funds and continue to fund things in the future.

This is going to come back and bite the city taxpayers in the rear hard in the future,if the investors do do the project and contribute to the social programs,it’s a one time deal,after it is done the city picks up the future costs,if you cannot afford to implement them in the first place how are you going to fund them in the future?

List of project requirements from 2018

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6wyoh9lrb..._List.pdf?dl=0

Notice for the privilege of improving the Book they had to agree to preserve and restore the facade of the National Theatre.

Free press had to provide/fund affordable housing.

Hudson’s had to fund skills training programs.

Because the jail site was purchased from the the city there are even more restrictions.

But then again this social experiment was voter approved so one cannot get to upset when things stay the same.

**Satiricalivory** · July-15-21, 02:39 PM

^ You are the only person who thinks the community benefits are a huge issue. I have not heard complaints anywhere else. These billionaires can more than afford it.

**Richard** · July-15-21, 03:25 PM

^ you will not hear complaining,just projects dropped or not even entertained from the start.

Mr Gilbert has leeway because he bought the low hanging fruit and the market has increased.But not those who would be looking at paying today’s prices.

If you were buying a 200k house,would you be expected to pay 300k because you could afford it? The bank is only going to lend based on the value of the project the rest comes out of pocket,will not stay a billionaire at that rate.

How many more billionaires you have in your back pocket,as it stands your local teacher’s union and pension funds are investing in Florida condominium projects and building subdivision sprawl,instead of locally.

They are telling you but you are not listening.

Your choice and decision,the ramifications of that is there are other cities reaping the rewards while COD keeps spinning the wheels uphill and wondering why.

Most cities encourage investment which brings jobs,opportunity,encourages more to move there and lower the tax obligations of those already there,it is not based on,you can afford it so that is the way it works.

It also lowers your bond ratings and you have to pay higher interest rates,so less infrastructure gets fixed as more debt is incurred.

I like that train of thought though because my investments are taxpayer based,I just have to time when the city taxpayers reach that plateau where they cannot be squeezed anymore and start bailing bringing you back to where you started.

Nothing wrong with creating social solutions,but in order to keep them as long term solutions they have to be funded long term,it’s a balance that gets upset when you have more obligations then funds.

You increase social programs as your tax base increases,outside of that you are increasing the tax burden on a already overburdened tax base.

You are the only city in the country with that program and the other cities are watching to see if it works,if it does not then they have nothing to lose,at this point in time the city of Detroit is not really in a position to test things to see if they work or not,the consequences of them not working are the results that brought you to where you are at,sometimes doing things that have already been proven as successful are a safer bet.

**Danny** · July-15-21, 09:17 PM

Billionaires can lose a billion dollars in one day. But they can make two billion dollars tomorrow.

**Scottathew** · July-16-21, 08:48 AM

There certainly has been a slowing\halt of new projects. I have 100% confidence that the podium part of the Hudson site will get completed. I'm fairly confident the tower part will get built. I have low confidence for any other Bedrock project right now.

Gilbert still has a lot of credibility, but momentum is really slowing down. Hopefully it has to do with the pandemic and economic uncertainty.

Gilbert will be bringing back a lot of his Detroit workers in the coming months. However, I do think there's going to be a shift in attracting IT talent. In-demand IT workers can now shop for work from home jobs. Major IT employers, like RKT, will have to decide if they want to try to force IT workers back in, or attract them with working from home. The work-from-home push has a potential to drastically change urban cores that attract the jobs, but don't have a lot of folks living there.