Why reduce the bloated govt. when you can raise taxes?

[irish_mafia]

Government programs are a failure? Let's see, social security and medicare were established under a completely different set of assumptions than are applicable today, and I don't believe there has been much adjusting of these programs. The fact that they still survive decades later on outdated assumptions actually seems to indicate that government runs things pretty damn well.

What planet are you living on? Both of these programs are broke becuase of inept mismanagement

[ThaFuzz]

What planet are you living on? Both of these programs are broke becuase of inept mismanagement

They're not broke yet, in spite of all the Republican hand-wringing and funding starvation. Social security is strained because recipients are being paid more out of it than they put in [[damn modern medicine increasing life expectancy!), or never paid into it at all [[in the case of the disabled.)

Medicare is fine, as long as streamlining is further pursued - NOT slashing appropriations for the program. Perhaps you're referring to state-run Medicaid programs? It's difficult to discern what you're referring to... pesky facts and figures would just burden the er, "discourse."

[rb336]

What planet are you living on? Both of these programs are broke becuase of inept mismanagement

no, the financial shortages are from republican looting to support their extremist agenda

[elganned]

no, the financial shortages are from republican looting to support their extremist agenda

...like two unnecessary wars that have dragged on for nearly a decade and look fair to drag on for another...

[elganned]

...A government service isn't a right, and the forced raising of taxes prove that.

Um, how does it prove it? Care to elaborate?

[elganned]

This calls for Draconian measures. I propose:

Shut down the state parks and recreation areas and sell all that useless land to private developers. Eliminates expense and boosts income simultaneously.

Eliminate Medicaid altogether. Old people should just die and stop wasting the taxpayers money.

Close all state universities and sell that land to private developers. Double win for us. [[See state parks above.)

Reduce the Secretary of State staff by half and get rid of driver's licenses. Government has no business controlling who can drive and who can't; that's an insufferable infringement of individual freedom.

Execute all prisoners currently held in state prisons. They're just a drain on the budget. Taxpayers shouldn't have to feed and house these scumbags.

I think that should do it, balance the budget and allow a 20% cut in taxes.

Problem solved.

[ccbatson]

Speaking of endless wars [[Iraq not being an example). Any libs notice the quagmire that Obama is getting us into in Afghanistan despite his promise to do the opposite?

[Stosh]

Speaking of endless wars [[Iraq not being an example). Any libs notice the quagmire that Obama is getting us into in Afghanistan despite his promise to do the opposite?

Excuse me. I'm sure you have your presidents mistaken. Shouldn't this be President Bush you are speaking of?

And if he didn't stay, you'd blame Obama anyway. Piss off.

[Johnlodge]

This is outrages. We don't need more government run programs for higher taxes, we need less.

There were some protesters in Grand Circus Park today, and I caught one of their signs that read; "Health care is a human right", or something to that affect. Shouldn't healthcare be worked for? I mean, seriously, should we feed everyone and offer food insurance as well?

These views are crazy. A government service isn't a right, and the forced raising of taxes prove that.

My wife and I are in the process of getting off WIC and other assistance programs thanks to the new job, but for now we still use them.

http://campusmartiuschronicle.blogspot.com/

Are you seriously on here arguing against government programs while you are on a government program?

[DetroitDad]

http://campusmartiuschronicle.blogspot.com/

Are you seriously on here arguing against government programs while you are on a government program?

I think as long as the programs are there and you are paying for them, you might as well use them, so long it is for their intended purpose [[a temporary safety net). I took advantage of a said program for what? Three to five months?However, I'm glad you are finally seeing the error in your suburb cheer leading ways, JL. If it wasn't for suburban sprawl, all these crisis would clearly not be happening, and the government programs would not be needed.

[Stosh]

I think as long as the programs are there and you are paying for them, you might as well use them, so long it is for their intended purpose [[a temporary safety net). I took advantage of a said program for what? Three to five months?However, I'm glad you are finally seeing the error in your suburb cheer leading ways, JL. If it wasn't for suburban sprawl, all these crisis would clearly not be happening.

Great. Then you should reimburse the government for all costs incurred by you and your family when you are able to pay. Given your newfound libertarian bent, I'm sure that shouldn't be a problem for you.

[DetroitDad]

Great. Then you should reimburse the government for all costs incurred by you and your family when you are able to pay. Given your newfound libertarian bent, I'm sure that shouldn't be a problem for you.

I pay more than I take. For Christ sake, I pay how much into the social security program? Knowing full well that I will probably never get any of it back, or any service, as social security will surely be gone by the time I am eligible.

Stosh, I would have no problem paying back the $200 we wracked up in milk and cheese the past couple months.

Unfortunately, you elitists out there will find that once you start switching to a socialistic society, those that stand against the system will not fare as well as those that take advantage of it, and in many cases will collapse.

I voice that the system needs to change or not change in certain ways, but I still am stuck living within the old system until it does.

[Stosh]

I pay more than I take. For Christ sake, I pay how much into the social security program? Knowing full well that I will probably never get any of it back, or any service, as social security will surely be gone by the time I am eligible.

Quit crying, for Christ's sake, and pay the piper.
Thousands of kids to come will pay for you and gripe as well.

[DetroitDad]

Quit crying, for Christ's sake, and pay the piper.
Thousands of kids to come will pay for you and gripe as well.

No way SS will be around that long.

[Stosh]

No way SS will be around that long.

Now that's not a very optimistic attitude to have. I suppose you'll just have to take your chances I guess.

[Stosh]

I pay more than I take. For Christ sake, I pay how much into the social security program? Knowing full well that I will probably never get any of it back, or any service, as social security will surely be gone by the time I am eligible.

Stosh, I would have no problem paying back the $200 we wracked up in milk and cheese the past couple months.

Unfortunately, you elitists out there will find that once you start switching to a socialistic society, those that stand against the system will not fare as well as those that take advantage of it, and in many cases will collapse.

I voice that the system needs to change or not change in certain ways, but I still am stuck living within the old system until it does.

Ok, since you mentioned it, I'm assuming that you and your family have health care presently. Who pays for that?

200 dollars in Cheese and Milk? Gee. You guys eat a lot of that. Just wait until the child gets old enough to eat that as well, what a surprise that is.

[ccbatson]

SS may be kept alive by raiding other resources [[taxes). In the end, something has to give however. The smartest thing to do is privatize. Freeze the benefit for those collecting and those above age 50. Between 35 and 50 offer the option of a buy out and privatization. 18-35 make a obligatory buyout. Issue no new enrolments. FOr the privatization, make every penny contributed by the individual tax free [[forever).

[Kevgoblue]

Yeah, privitize social security. If Bush had had his way and accomplished that [[although I give him credit, for addressing an issue most politicians would rather sweep under the carpet) Bernie Madoff would have scammed $150B instead of that measely $50B.

Come up with a way to control the out of control theft by these funds managers and I'll listen to your idea.

[ccbatson]

I marvel at the logic....if the bank had been more successful, then the bank robbers would have stolen more money when committing the crime.

Solution? Make the bank less successful...BRILLIANT.

[NoHeartAnthony]

I think as long as the programs are there and you are paying for them, you might as well use them, so long it is for their intended purpose [[a temporary safety net). I took advantage of a said program for what? Three to five months?However, I'm glad you are finally seeing the error in your suburb cheer leading ways, JL. If it wasn't for suburban sprawl, all these crisis would clearly not be happening, and the government programs would not be needed.

What does suburban sprawl have to do with you being irresponsible and poor?

[ccbatson]

The connection is that liberal socialist fascists would like to take away an individuals property rights at the most basic level...the right to establish a home [[and pay for it) wherever you like.

[DetroitDad]

What does suburban sprawl have to do with you being irresponsible and poor?

"Don't judge a man until you've walked two moons in his moccasins".

Irresponsible and poor are rarely synonymous. Being poor seems like the result of irresponsibility, but I have met more "poor people" than you would care to count, and it's simply not true. We are likely in a sort of long collapse. When a society collapses, it tends to collapse household by household, and/or town by town. To outsiders, these individual collapse looks like irresponsibility and personal failure, and those individuals and towns/cities are ridiculed, belittled, and are not invited to big dinner parties or elite events. They are laughed at... that is until it spreads to those laughing.

It's becoming more and more obvious that our problems are across the board, and laughing at an individual or city for their problems is like your lungs laughing at your arm for having cancer... "Ha, I can survive without that arm, I'm not reliant on it".

Sigh....

What our society basically did several decades ago was switch from an urban model of mixed use to a suburban sprawl model with many zoning laws, a warranted response to the large dirty factories and other horrors of the industrial city. The problems came about when they started excessively zoning things, for example, grocery shopping and shopping in general started to be viewed as undesirable behavior for residential areas, and was required to be banished/zoned into it's own district. The problem with this is that it eliminated the desirable type of low income housing, the type that used to be above retail or in upper floors of buildings without elevators, like it is in many European cities.

Eventually zoning and development models got excessive to the point of dividing based on income [[houses of $100,000 caliber are rarely in the same vicinity as $300,000 homes in your typical suburb) and did things such as make auxiliary apartments and work spaces illegal [[say, a small apartment being rented above a garage). This type of living arrangement requires excessive driving and owning a car, and really makes good transit nearly impossible.

All this puts excessive strain on everyone [[and creates more and more people joining the ranks of the poor every day), but especially low income families, not to mention created the sudden false problem of there being a lack of affordable housing options, which eventually resulted in corralling the poor into their own zones [[just like in the suburbs) or "projects", which was a disaster. Of course, the excessive driving and lack of physical activity of that lifestyle led to many health problems among all classes of suburbanites, but the poor were hit with the double whammy of only being able to afford the cheapest of foods, which are usually extremely unhealthy.

Meanwhile, the banning of mixed use developments for many years, and the zoning requirements for excessive parking spaces in American urban centers really contributed to the blight of our urban spaces in this country, which really turned many of them into suburbs by default. As our urban places became worse and worse, they lost population and became less and less desirable [[to the point where you are ridiculed for trying to raise your kids in them today). As population and tax base [[jobs) decreased, the ability to keep up safe public parks and places decreased to the point where the only place to really take your kids to play in many urban cities is the McDonald's or Burger King Play Place, which usually require you to buy their Happy "Obesity in a Box" Meals to use the playgrounds.

As the unsustainability of suburbia [[it's pissing off our planet, and can't continue without oil) couples with America's inability to competently manage itself [[like suburban sprawl, a product of consumerism), we can no longer pay for health care, and have an excess of unhealthy individuals.

I was reading a book recently about carcinogens and cancer, and it seems that many cancers are actually preventable if we were able to have some self control, look at the result of our actions, educate ourselves enough and not listen to corporate bull telling us "it's okay because it's not 100% proven" [[a chance is really enough for me in most cases). The fact that we are a society in the Age of Excess who call ourselves consumers rather than citizens and individuals speaks volumes.

At the temple at Delphi [[site of the precursor to the Olympic Games) there were three key Maxims written on columns for the athletes to keep in mind if they hoped to be triumphant, and one of those translates to "Nothing in Excess". Our society does not follow that maxim, and will not be triumphant [[it doesn't follow any of the other ones either, nor pay attention to the symbolic meaning of the "E", but that is another topic that isn't appropriate here).

[Stosh]

And with all that whining and crying, you still didn't prove your point, sorry.

And DD, misdirection isn't your strong suit. Try answering the question next time.

[humanmachinery]

The financial solvency of Social Security depends upon many factors, but it will likely remain operable for quite some time.

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009...urity-and.html

The program could still be saved now, if congress were to make alterations in the terribly illogical way budgets are drawn up.

[elganned]

What our society basically did several decades ago was switch from an urban model of mixed use to a suburban sprawl model with many zoning laws...

I won't go into the bulk of your epic [[it seemed to ramble from suburbs to lack of self-control to Delphic oracles--quite confusing, and not very well kept on point).

I just want to mention that I thought the development of expressways and the Interstate system was the real impetus behind suburban sprawl, because it made commuting farther less onerous.

Do you really think zoning law was the major "culprit" in forming the modern suburb?