New Arena on the Horizon??

jflick3535 · January-18-10, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

He could buy the Palace but why bother? His empire is based in FoxTown and the allure of moving to the suburbs just don't have that fear factor anymore.

To answer the question of "why bother"

The palace is considered one of the premiere concert/sport venues in the country and DTE was just top in the nation for concert attendance

Even if the new arena was built--do you really think clear channel would get rid of the contract for the palace not to mention the fact that you have 1 owner with two venues that can operate inside and outside all year round?

**R8RBOB** · January-18-10, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by jflick3535

To answer the question of "why bother"

The palace is considered one of the premiere concert/sport venues in the country and DTE was just top in the nation for concert attendance

Even if the new arena was built--do you really think clear channel would get rid of the contract for the palace not to mention the fact that you have 1 owner with two venues that can operate inside and outside all year round?

All I have to say is that I suppose the same thing was said about the Silverdome which was still in good condition when they built Ford Field. After all, the Silverdome was only 28 years old when the decision was made for the Lions to leave the Dome. Remember Monster Jam that was held at the Dome? Where is it again?

**royce** · January-18-10, 08:01 PM

I am not advocating that Ford Field would be a good alternative for hockey, but if the Red Wings had to play there, could the rink go north and south [[think side line to side line) and a curtain cover the eastern side of the rink where the team benches could be located? How many fans would a configuration like that hold? Whatever the number, this configuration would seem to me to be more intimate than what will probably be the configuration for the Frozen Four.

BTW, on another thread I had asked this question, Can't Ilitch make a deal with the family that owns the parking lots that are in the way of the new arena to simply exchange those parking lots for whatever parking lots that would be near the new arena?

**esp1986** · January-18-10, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by jflick3535

To answer the question of "why bother"

The palace is considered one of the premiere concert/sport venues in the country and DTE was just top in the nation for concert attendance

Even if the new arena was built--do you really think clear channel would get rid of the contract for the palace not to mention the fact that you have 1 owner with two venues that can operate inside and outside all year round?

The problem is, owning two competing venues, with a downtown one likely being the better venue, even if there are contract tied to The Palace, that won't pay ALL of the bills, there still need to be other events there, and with a better venue downtown, that will attract the better events and will leave The Palace empty a lot, so there are a lot of reasons not to buy it if you are the Ilitches... it will likely be bought by another group who wishes to run it, competing against a downtown arena.

**jiminnm** · January-18-10, 09:09 PM

I saw an article the other day that Karen Davidson put her Snowmass CO house and property on the market for $47 million.

jflick3535 · January-18-10, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

The problem is, owning two competing venues, with a downtown one likely being the better venue, even if there are contract tied to The Palace, that won't pay ALL of the bills, there still need to be other events there, and with a better venue downtown, that will attract the better events and will leave The Palace empty a lot, so there are a lot of reasons not to buy it if you are the Ilitches... it will likely be bought by another group who wishes to run it, competing against a downtown arena.

first off let's assume the pistons will move to the new downtown arena

The pistons make up around 50 nights at the palace a year [[ I am assuming a playoff run each year) that leaves around 450 nights a year that events could take place at both DTE and the palace.

Palace sports and entertainment has a rock solid contract with clear channel which promotes and books virtually all concerts across the nation. Clear Channel would not want to break that contract because of the golden goose which is DTE.

so...if Illitch buys palace sports and entertainment he would have complete control over 84 nights at the new arena and 450 nights at both the palaceand DTE. and because he controls all three Clear channel wouldn't give two shits about moving some events to the new arena.....sounds like a great deal to me.

**border5150** · January-18-10, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by sg9018

Michmatters, Yes it is true. Most cites who have both pro hockey and pro basketball, for the most part share thier arenas.
For example NYC,Boston,Atlanta,Chicago,Toronto,DC,Philadelphia teams share thier arenas.

Isn't Detroit [[OK Metro-Detroit) one of, if not the only markets in the 4 major North American sports that has four separate stadiums?

Also, I seem to remember before breaking ground at Comerica Park's present location that Illitch was planning to build the stadium west of the Fox; and the only reason he went east of the Fox is because the Lions followed suit and made the more area more affordable for both teams.

The fact is the current economic landscape, the end of the JLA lease, the death of Bill Davidson and the rumors of Davidson's wife's plans to sell the Pistons are all making theis project more of a possibility than ever.

**casscorridor** · January-18-10, 11:08 PM

If a new hockey stadium is built, why can't the Red Wings continue to use the Joe until the new one is completed? Why have a temporary location?

I have been against the idea of a new stadium, but if the Pistons come back Downtown and use share it with the Wings, that would make it much more attractive.

**Goose** · January-18-10, 11:23 PM

cass, the reason they "can't" use the joe is that supposedly if they were to extend/renew their lease, the building needs 10 million in repairs/upgrades...

**casscorridor** · January-18-10, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Goose

cass, the reason they "can't" use the joe is that supposedly if they were to extend/renew their lease, the building needs 10 million in repairs/upgrades...

i'm sure they could hold on for a few more years with minimal repairs. but as long as the Wings stay downtown, i don't care.

the one thing I am more concerned about is keeping wings fans on the people mover. the joe louis station is awesome. a new stadium would loose that.

**R8RBOB** · January-19-10, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

i'm sure they could hold on for a few more years with minimal repairs. but as long as the Wings stay downtown, i don't care.

the one thing I am more concerned about is keeping wings fans on the people mover. the joe louis station is awesome. a new stadium would loose that.

You know what? I think it is a powerplay straight out of the playbook used by the Norris family back in the 70's. Same effing story. The Wings are playing in a outdated arena [[Olympia Stadium in the 70's and Joe Louis Arena in the 10's) and they are hinting that they have an offer to move to the suburbs [[Silverdome in the 70's, Palace in the 10's) but if the city builds them a new arena [[with suites) then they will stay put. Watching the 6:00 news you would think that Smilovich was wetting his pants on the idea that the Wings could move to the Palace. He was suggesting that it was a win-win for them. Revenue on suites he said. All the sudden, the Ilitches are losing money. They made money at the Joe for two decades and now they are losing money.

**Goose** · January-19-10, 12:43 AM

well, if they move to the palace, that will be the end of my game going days, i like the venue, can't stand the area... i like being able to walk around several bars/resturants and then go to the game, then return to these establishments, all without getting into my car.... if they move out there that will suck BIG TIME......

Long Lake · January-19-10, 01:26 AM

I have to say, its these types of "news" articles that get me very frustrated at the state of our local media.

If you only glance at the headline, it implies that a new multipurpose downtown arena may be on the horizon.

If, however, you read the article, it says nothing of the sort. All it says is that the Pistons MAY be for sale and that the new [[unknown) owners MAY collaborate with the Wings on arena issues at some undetermined point in the future.

Why this means there is a strong likelihood of a downtown arena, as opposed to a suburban arena, is beyond me. Why isn't it just as likely there will be a new Auburn Hills arena, or Madison Heights arena for that matter?

So, while the article is interesting, I don't understand the headline, and I don't get how this specifically concerns a future location years or decades from now.

If anything, it seems that the Wings are more likely to move to the suburbs than vice-versa, at least for the near term. There is only one successful arena in metro Detroit, and it's the Palace. It would make financial sense for the Wings to play in Auburn Hills, even if there were longer-term plans to play in a new multipurpose arena downtown.

**Danny** · January-19-10, 08:52 AM

Mr. Illitch is going to sell out Detroit and move his Hockeytown' Red Wings' to Oakland County. It would be a big ecomonic blow to Downtown Detroit bars and sports bars now to mention 'Hockeytown Cafe'. I say let us boycott Little Caesars and its venues and hockey programs.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET!

Don't eat his PIZZA PIZZA!

Neda

**R8RBOB** · January-19-10, 09:46 AM

Wow, this story is starting to grow some legs.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010011...share-new-home

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

**Supersport** · January-19-10, 10:37 AM

Gistok,

My bad, I combined Palace Sports/Entertainment with Olympia. I, for whatever reason, was thinking Olympia controlled Palace/Meadowbrook/PINE KNOB all under their umbrella. Had a mental lapse I suppose.

**kenp** · January-19-10, 10:50 AM

I think that Illitch is playing games here with the intend of staying in the Joe for a few more years. Pretending to move to the Palace may just work in having a nice new deal setup to stay at Joe Louis and have somebody else pick up the tab on the 10M renovations needed. I'm not even sure any improvements are needed for 5 years.

**R8RBOB** · January-19-10, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by kenp

I think that Illitch is playing games here with the intend of staying in the Joe for a few more years. Pretending to move to the Palace may just work in having a nice new deal setup to stay at Joe Louis and have somebody else pick up the tab on the 10M renovations needed. I'm not even sure any improvements are needed for 5 years.

Read my post at 12:00 AM. I addressed this very issue. He wants a new arena but if the city said ok we will build your arena he would stay at the Joe until it was built. JLA is not crumbling yet. The talk of moving to the Palace even temporary is a powerplay.

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

**esp1986** · January-19-10, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by kenp

I think that Illitch is playing games here with the intend of staying in the Joe for a few more years. Pretending to move to the Palace may just work in having a nice new deal setup to stay at Joe Louis and have somebody else pick up the tab on the 10M renovations needed. I'm not even sure any improvements are needed for 5 years.

It isn't much of a secret that the arena needs improvements, they have been coming for quite a few years now, and now they need to be done... Most of the improvements are behind the scenes, such as electrical, mechanical and maybe some structural... one that you can see is the out of town scoreboards around the suite level... these have not been fully functional for at least two years now, maybe three, and while they are not imperative to the arenas operation, they are just one of those things that need to work... but in a 31 year old building, with even older equipment, there are a lot of things in that building that are likely on their last legs.

**kenp** · January-19-10, 11:12 AM

I'm sure there is a lot of things they could do for a long term investment, but I think Illitch is looking for a short term lease. I think the 10M number was meant if they were staying there for the long term.
Of course Joe Louis could use some renovations, but I think it could sure serve its purpose quite nicely for 5 years.

**EL Jimbo** · January-19-10, 11:19 AM

There is a problem with an Olympia purchase of the Palace Entertainment business. The Tampa Bay Lightning. Palace Entertainment still holds the note on the Lightning because the buyer's finances are still being worked out. If the buyer's financing falls through, then Palace Entertainment will revert back as the owner of the Lightning. If Illitch buys Palace Entertainment, he would be in simultaneous ownership of two NHL franchises...probably a big no-no.

**esp1986** · January-19-10, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by kenp

I'm sure there is a lot of things they could do for a long term investment, but I think Illitch is looking for a short term lease. I think the 10M number was meant if they were staying there for the long term.
Of course Joe Louis could use some renovations, but I think it could sure serve its purpose quite nicely for 5 years.

Let me correct you... the long term number is closer to $200 million... a long term lease extension for the Ilitches, would mean a major overhaul of the arena, meaning most of it would be gutted and possibly expanded... the improvements the Joe needs now are simply repairs and maintenance costs to keep the arena running... this arena is old and dilapidated, and in the short term, it will need some help, and $10 million is not an outrageous number for that type of stuff, but in the long term, if this will continue to be an NHL arena, it will need a couple hundred million to modernize it.

**kenp** · January-19-10, 11:28 AM

esp, that does make more sense. But you know Illitch, if its 100 bucks, he's gonna try to have somebody else pocket it. I dont know all the ins ands outs of this deal, but if Illitch leases for 5 years he shouldnt have to put a dime into the place.

**EL Jimbo** · January-19-10, 11:42 AM

To me, the biggest question with this whole situation is what do you do to fill the Palace when/if the Pistons move. Many of the same events you would host at the Palace would likely be moved to the new Red Wing/Piston Arena. The new owners of the Pontiac Silverdome want to convert it to a soccer stadium in order to start an MLS franchise

So what would you put there to fill it? There are only so many arena level concerts that come into town and the new arena would take the lionshare of those. There would only be a handful of "overflow" dates where the Palace would be filled that way.

Arena League Football folded so that isn't an option. Indoor soccer wouldn't be a big enough draw. The same is true with any minor league hockey.

Bottom line is that I just don't see the Palace being profitable once a new stadium is built.

**esp1986** · January-19-10, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by kenp

esp, that does make more sense. But you know Illitch, if its 100 bucks, he's gonna try to have somebody else pocket it. I dont know all the ins ands outs of this deal, but if Illitch leases for 5 years he shouldnt have to put a dime into the place.

If he leases it, he SHOULDN'T have to spend another dime, but the problem with that is that the city has no money, and they own the building.

EL JimboTo me, the biggest question with this whole situation is what do you do to fill the Palace when/if the Pistons move. Many of the same events you would host at the Palace would likely be moved to the new Red Wing/Piston Arena. The new owners of the Pontiac Silverdome want to convert it to a soccer stadium in order to start an MLS franchise

So what would you put there to fill it? There are only so many arena level concerts that come into town and the new arena would take the lionshare of those. There would only be a handful of "overflow" dates where the Palace would be filled that way.

Arena League Football folded so that isn't an option. Indoor soccer wouldn't be a big enough draw. The same is true with any minor league hockey.

Bottom line is that I just don't see the Palace being profitable once a new stadium is built.

We are all wondering about this... they have a contract right now to host some concerts, but that doesn't help fill it up more than 80 days a year.