Uniting Hart and Spirit Plazas: Bridge or Tunnel?

[Meddle]

Is this what we're talking about?



If so, I say ... neither.

First off, get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Then, instead of wasting money on more goofy, spend that money to improve streets, lighting and emergency service response times in the neighborhoods.

[SyGolden48236]

Is this what we're talking about?



If so, I say ... neither.

First off, get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Then, instead of wasting money on more goofy, spend that money to improve streets, lighting and emergency service response times in the neighborhoods.

Absolutely spot on! Streets are for traffic, not to be used as a place to loiter. Hart Plaza is deserted 80 percent of the time and it is already paid for. People can loiter there.

[JonWylie]

Absolutely spot on! Streets are for traffic, not to be used as a place to loiter. Hart Plaza is deserted 80 percent of the time and it is already paid for. People can loiter there.

So unbelievably wrong. If you don't like people, don't come to a city. There are plenty of 14 lane roads in the suburbs that will satisfy your craving. The money put into the Spirit Plaza will be money well spent in creating a new green space and removing a clusterfuck intersection. More to come.

[Honky Tonk]

If you don't like people, don't come to a city.

No problem.

[iheartthed]

First off, get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Then, instead of wasting money on more goofy, spend that money to improve streets, lighting and emergency service response times in the neighborhoods.

My neighborhood just did what was done in Spirit Plaza - closed a street to make a temporary plaza, then made the temporary plaza permanent. It's working well here.

[bust]

....get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Jefferson is 8 lanes wide in that location. 4 of them are zooming onto or off of an expressway. And right through Detroit's historical center, where the radial spokes should connect with its prime natural amenity. Spokes that were designed for pedestrians, horses, and bicyclists, by the way.

New York is a city of 8.623 million-- nearly 13 times the population of Detroit. Not only does Manhattan not have an 8 lane road, anywhere [[there is only one in the whole city, in Queens), it doesn't have an interstate except for about a half mile across its northernmost point, over 12 miles from downtown. Not even FDR Drive is 8 lanes wide. Besides, NY has successfully closed many streets to car traffic, most notably Broadway, one of its major thoroughfares. And they did that in New York's center of density: Midtown.

Iheartthed, I'm not sure you were there yet, but NY also put a bunch of other streets on a diet in your neighborhood before they made the pedestrian plaza. They extended the sidewalks at the street corners along Fulton, Lafayette, DeKalb, and elsewhere -- forcing cars to make those turns more slowly, and making it easier and safer for pedestrians. They even moved the fire hydrants closer into the streets along with the sidewalks, as if to enforce the change was permanent.

New York: responsible or goofy?

I'm with iheartthed. Jefferson needs a road diet. Only some Detroiters [[and ex-Detroiters) would think all those cars zooming through there is a good idea.

[Meddle]

New York: responsible or goofy?

The epitome of goofy.

[Gistok]

Is this what we're talking about?



If so, I say ... neither.

First off, get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Then, instead of wasting money on more goofy, spend that money to improve streets, lighting and emergency service response times in the neighborhoods.

If they don't restore safety and faith in the neighborhoods, there won't be much of a city.

Wow... so many logic fallacies in just 2 posts all rolled up in one... Slippery Slope, Red Herring, and False Analogy.

Chances are that they will be using TIFA [[Tax Increment Financial Authority) dollars to make all these changes, money captured downtown that cannot be used outside of the downtown TIFA boundary... meaning NOT the neighborhoods.

[ParisianLesion]

Is this what we're talking about?



If so, I say ... neither.

First off, get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Then, instead of wasting money on more goofy, spend that money to improve streets, lighting and emergency service response times in the neighborhoods.

Ahhh the old "we can't have this because we don't have that" argument. Enlightened.

[Honky Tonk]

Ahhh the old "we can't have this because we don't have that" argument. Enlightened.

Finally...

[scarecrow]

First off, get all the goofy out of the way and reopen the street to traffic like responsible cities do.

Well as long as you don't come downtown [[which we already know you don't) then all the goofy is out of the way.