'White Skin Privilege', from a white perspective....

[blksoul_x]

Tim Wise, [[a white guy) is a notable author and anti-racist speaker. Many white people and their apologist back-off a debate about one of amerikkkas' longest running contradictions, and that is, the automatic access of many immunities and opportunities due to simply being white-skinned.

It is common to hear Black activist, nationalist, and anti-racist speak in profound fashion on the subject of WSP, [[white skin privilege). In the video below, Wise, profoundly drives home those Black sentiments in his own 'white experience', [[not just talk), the invisible legacy of what many amerikkkans' REFUSE, or don't want to ADMIT to believe exist, and that is idea of 'white skin privilege'.

[[the video is almost a full hour, but it is worth a look!)

Click on below...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA

blksoul_atcha!
The BJL, the color you love to hate!

[Ragtoplover59]

How have you been blksoul-x ?, I haven't been around much since the format change, good to see some things haven't changed. :~)
That is an interesting look at things,
...and I hope you enjoy this just as much, although not nearly as long?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fc2_1247608341&p=1

.

[Omaha]

I saw Tim a year or so ago at Creighton University. His presentation was entertaining and enlightening. On occasion, he was a little glib for my taste. I hope he is not targeted by right wing hate groups that are on the rise.

He is doing important work. The idea of talking to whites about white skin privilege isn't new. I knew many white working class folks who spoke of it in the Detroit metro area in the late 60s and early 70s.

Specifically People Against Racism [[PAR) did it in the late 60s. The Interfaith Centers for Racial Justice did it in Detroit’s suburbs following the uprisings of the late 60's and the Kerner Commission Report.

White skin privilege still exists today as does institutional racism. Some, but not all, working class whites see it. The concept is more often interpreted as a way to lay universal white blame and guilt than it is to explain an unfair and unjust phenomenon that exists. As a result, it is something those who want to perpetuate the status quo can use to keep folks divided.

The Kerner Commission report if reread today would both enlighten and enrage folks.

“What white Americans have never fully understood but what the Negro can never forget—is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it.� From the introduction to the “National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders,� 1968

In a recession it is now difficult for everyone. And while recognizing it is still harder on people of color, it is better to unite and build serious power for positive change. Regardless of color or class we’d be all better off if we really understood the following quote.

“If you have come to help me you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.� Aboriginal activists group, Queensland, 1970s

[ccbatson]

How is this not racism in reverse? Follow MLK and strive to disregard the color of a person's skin and focus on the person's character.

[Jimaz]

I liked the bit about never hearing the term "overprivileged" used. The "Black Pill" argument was good too.

Here's a Tim Wise interview from March of this year: Between Barack and a Hard Place.

[ccbatson]

Interesting that this is acceptable racism [[by liberals anyway)

[vetalalumni]

Someone please take the time to explain how and why the phrase "reverse racism" is a misnomer.

[UFO]

Tim Wise, [[a white guy) is a notable author and anti-racist speaker. Many white people and their apologist back-off a debate about one of amerikkkas' longest running contradictions, and that is, the automatic access of many immunities and opportunities due to simply being white-skinned.

It is common to hear Black activist, nationalist, and anti-racist speak in profound fashion on the subject of WSP, [[white skin privilege). In the video below, Wise, profoundly drives home those Black sentiments in his own 'white experience', [[not just talk), the invisible legacy of what many amerikkkans' REFUSE, or don't want to ADMIT to believe exist, and that is idea of 'white skin privilege'.

[[the video is almost a full hour, but it is worth a look!)

Click on below...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA

blksoul_atcha!
The BJL, the color you love to hate!

So, while I agree with Wise %99 of his arguments. The remaining %1 of his argument being racist because he specifically targets whites only in every single one of his arguments I have seen completely ignoring actual history.
But neverthelelss, this is about America and white privilege.

Riddle me this genius. What is the answer?? What happens when "white privilege" is dismantled?
And how do you go about dismantling this so called white privilege?

Who gains from dismantling white priviege and who loses?

[6nois]

Tim Wise is correct there is white privilege, and its just part of the puzzle.

There is also male privilege, heterosexual privilege, religious privilege, in this country. The list goes on and on of all of the privileges that are given to people not because of what they do or can do, but because of the issues of who they are categorically as a person.

[Sstashmoo]

Everyone is a bit biased to a certain degree, it is the level of bias that matters, and it is not dependent on race, just human nature. In this day and age among rational thinking adults behind any closed door the mere notion of mistreating a person based on race is totally unacceptable. In my experience anyway.

Best way to put out a fire is stop throwing fuel on it. If you're one color and a person of a different color is unkind to you, race doesn't have anything to do with it, the person is just a jerk. A lot of people are jerks. And that goes both ways.

Responding to a jerk with more jerk like behavior solves nothing. A little kindness goes a long way. Be bigger. Be stronger. Be respected.

Ignore this Wise person he is just a shit stirrer.

[Lorax]

[quote=Sstashmoo;62849

Ignore this Wise person he is just a shit stirrer.[/quote]

How does it feel to have your job outsourced?

[ccbatson]

You are not wrong Vet...I was being nice...it is plain racism.

[gazhekwe]

OK, here goes, from someone who has made civil rights a lifetime career.

What is "reverse racism?" It is an interesting term, being that it acknowledges on the one hand that racism is white against black, while decrying it when it is seen as something to benefit blacks rather than whites.

As such it is not racism practiced by blacks against whites, but policies instituted and practiced by the institutions that usually favored whites, to benefit blacks.

In my lengthy career, I have seen racism against whites, much much more racism against blacks. Racism is always practiced by one group against another. In what is called "reverse racism," policies are instituted by the overwhelmingly white systems to reverse generations of discrimination against blacks. Now here come the whites who continue to have their traditional privileges, screaming that giving similar privileges to blacks is "reverse racism."

I stand ready to take your comments and questions. Abuse and ridicule will be ignored.

[lilpup]

OK, here goes, from someone who has made civil rights a lifetime career.

What is "reverse racism?" It is an interesting term, being that it acknowledges on the one hand that racism is white against black, while decrying it when it is seen as something to benefit blacks rather than whites.

As such it is not racism practiced by blacks against whites, but policies instituted and practiced by the institutions that usually favored whites, to benefit blacks.

In my lengthy career, I have seen racism against whites, much much more racism against blacks. Racism is always practiced by one group against another. In what is called "reverse racism," policies are instituted by the overwhelmingly white systems to reverse generations of discrimination against blacks. Now here come the whites who continue to have their traditional privileges, screaming that giving similar privileges to blacks is "reverse racism."

I stand ready to take your comments and questions. Abuse and ridicule will be ignored.

So how is it to be determined that a balance has been reached? And why is the only racism that ever seems to be recognized is white v black or white v XXX?

This was something I ran into while reading about the hijab case just filed against Callahan's court. A few years ago there were two hijab wearing Islamic blacks who claim they were denied employment at a Dearborn McDonald's due to their wearing hijab...I don't know the race of ownership, but what if the ownership was Islamic Middle Eastern and the discrimination wasn't against hijab but rather against black? Just as in the recent case the national media played it as a case of religious discrimination...but it was a halal McDonald's.

[firstandten]

OK, here goes, from someone who has made civil rights a lifetime career.

What is "reverse racism?" It is an interesting term, being that it acknowledges on the one hand that racism is white against black, while decrying it when it is seen as something to benefit blacks rather than whites.

As such it is not racism practiced by blacks against whites, but policies instituted and practiced by the institutions that usually favored whites, to benefit blacks.

In my lengthy career, I have seen racism against whites, much much more racism against blacks. Racism is always practiced by one group against another. In what is called "reverse racism," policies are instituted by the overwhelmingly white systems to reverse generations of discrimination against blacks. Now here come the whites who continue to have their traditional privileges, screaming that giving similar privileges to blacks is "reverse racism."

I stand ready to take your comments and questions. Abuse and ridicule will be ignored.

Since we've been talking about Tim here's his take on it

http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfne...3,80611,.shtml

I believe Tim Wise is truly one of the more important voices out there discussing race and race related issues. His web site has some very good blogs and articles that if one reads with an open mind it can give you a greater understanding of race.

http://www.timwise.org/

[gazhekwe]

I have heard that argument before, that racism is about power, so only those who have power can be racist. The extension, that the use of racial slurs has to be dehumanizing, while terms used by blacks against whites are not strong enough, is dangerous in my opinion.

Such terms foster a sense of outrage, a sense that it is OK to hate another race. Even if the hater has no power to affect the major race, he or she does have the power to hurt an individual. Fostering hatred can increase that power. As we continue to break down barriers, power of that community increases, and there will come a time when they can hurt the community of the hated race. Witness our unlamented former Detroit City Council members who openly admitted to discriminatory animus against whites and were applauded for doing so. No one challenged them. That is racism with the power to hurt and control.

[vetalalumni]

D@mn you're good gazhekwe! Exceptional descriptions and background. You indeed described some of the hows and whys of racism, and refuted the "reverse racism" misnomer. Thank you.

[gazhekwe]

Why, thank you, Vetal! I have been working on this all my life, it seems. I am happy if what I have learned can help others.

[firstandten]

I have heard that argument before, that racism is about power, so only those who have power can be racist. The extension, that the use of racial slurs has to be dehumanizing, while terms used by blacks against whites are not strong enough, is dangerous in my opinion.

Such terms foster a sense of outrage, a sense that it is OK to hate another race. Even if the hater has no power to affect the major race, he or she does have the power to hurt an individual. Fostering hatred can increase that power. As we continue to break down barriers, power of that community increases, and there will come a time when they can hurt the community of the hated race. Witness our unlamented former Detroit City Council members who openly admitted to discriminatory animus against whites and were applauded for doing so. No one challenged them. That is racism with the power to hurt and control.

I do agree with that assessment. We try to live in a civil society and racial bigotry does nothing to further that goal. My issue is when whites claim to equate acts of racial bigotry with reverse discrimination. I fall into Tim's view that true discrimination is institutionalized and can't be reversed unless the blacks have the power to affect whites on an institutional basis. There are some cases where I could see that happening [[ Detroit city council) but those are rare.

I believe too many times people confuse racial bigotry with racial discrimination. Racial bigotry in which everyone has to a certain degree can be addressed with education and an open mind is especially dangerous in whites because that can be used to justify a system of racial discrimination which affects blacks and other minorities on an institutional basis.

If you define anything that blocks life, liberty and the pursuit of happeness as institutional discrimination you must come to the conclusion that is very difficult for blacks to have any control over whites in that regard.

One of the biggest issues I had with Sstashmoo when we were debating the whole Gates issue a few weeks back is that I think that Sstashmoo was looking at the incident as a personal issue with the lack of respect of one individual to a police officer and I looked at it from a position of institutional abuse of police power even though it was among two individuals.

I think most blacks can get beyond a cross burning, or a snide remark or nasty name calling although we live in a civilized society and shouldn't do that.

What's more problematical is being denied job promotions, mortgage loans, being arrested on shaky grounds etc. Thats the kind of discrimination that concerns me more.

[ghettopalmetto]

Can someone explain to me what privileges are allegedly endowed to me as a white man?

I was lucky enough to be born to working-class parents who cared enough to feed and clothe me, take me to the doctor, and make sure I did well in school. I busted my ass to put myself through college and get my career to where it's at now. That doesn't have a single damned thing to do with being white.

All I'm saying, is I've been on this rock for over 30 years, and I haven't seen a single check or free pass on account of my being white.

It was certainly true in the past that racism was institutionalized. But at the same time blacks were relegated to menial jobs, my first-generation American grandfathers were both working menial jobs to support six kids.

When does one decide to start taking responsibility for his own lot in life? Luck comes to those who work for it.

Most of us need a leg up to some extent, but one cannot neglect to avail himself of opportunities, and then blame his failures on Whitey. That's just lazy bullshit.

[vetalalumni]

Can someone explain to me what privileges are allegedly endowed to me as a white man?

I was lucky enough to be born to working-class parents who cared enough to feed and clothe me, take me to the doctor, and make sure I did well in school. I busted my ass to put myself through college and get my career to where it's at now. That doesn't have a single damned thing to do with being white.

All I'm saying, is I've been on this rock for over 30 years, and I haven't seen a single check or free pass on account of my being white.

It was certainly true in the past that racism was institutionalized. But at the same time blacks were relegated to menial jobs, my first-generation American grandfathers were both working menial jobs to support six kids.

When does one decide to start taking responsibility for his own lot in life? Luck comes to those who work for it.

Most of us need a leg up to some extent, but one cannot neglect to avail himself of opportunities, and then blame his failures on Whitey. That's just lazy bullshit.

Good questions. There are very good answers as well. The tone [[of the questions) will unfortunately irritate some at the outset however. My turn gazhekwe? Anyone else that can answer [[without the unnecessary reciprocal vitriol)?

If you define anything that blocks life, liberty and the pursuit of happeness as institutional discrimination you must come to the conclusion that is very difficult for blacks to have any control over whites in that regard.

Can you please clarify?

... was looking at the incident as a personal issue with the lack of respect of one individual to a police officer and I looked at it from a position of institutional abuse of police power even though it was among two individuals.

I get both views firstandten.

I think most blacks can get beyond a cross burning, or a snide remark or nasty name calling ...

Indeed.

[ccbatson]

Yet, still racism....correct?

[gazhekwe]

No. Read it again, CC. Racism is always from one race to another. This is one race adding privileges to a different race to equal privileges given to its members.

[gazhekwe]

Each such policy has its own set of goals and measurements as a requirement. It would be a wonderful thing to have it studied among all the policies to see which are reaching balance. I know we are not there yet, but much much closer than when I started on this path.

[Detroitej72]

Racism is still racism, regardless of the color of the perpetrator's skin.

Racism is as old as humankind, no one tribe of humans have a monopoly on the practice.