Don't buy a car - Live in Detroit anyways

**Scottathew** · February-13-19, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Or you can just hop in your climate controlled AWD car in an insulated garage. 99.9% are gonna choose this option over biking with baby in blizzard through sprawl.

A point of the article, and the point I'm trying to make, is that you're presenting a false dichotomy.

Your false dichotomy: You either have to own a car or walk through a blizzard with a baby.

Reality:
There are a variety of options that prevent the "baby in a blizzard" scenario:
- Don't go out in the blizzard [[probably the best option)
- Reschedule appointments
- Utilize ride sharing
- Have groceries delivered [[this cuts into the savings of not having a car, but you still come out ahead)
- Have a friend or relative help you if you're in a bind

Yesterday we had a blizzard. My wife stayed home with the kids. She didn't drive anywhere and I took the AWD Honda CR-V to the bus stop in Troy. In the past we've canceled and rescheduled appointments due to bad weather even though we have two cars. Managing risk to ourselves and cars causes us to make some of the same decisions to not go out into the blizzard with the baby, even with an AWD car.

There are lots of options. Having one car for every adult is an option. So is having less than one car per adult. I'm not saying that you have to use my option, nor do I have to use yours. But I think the possibilities are exciting for my future if I end up being a stay at home parent. My job as a stay at home parent would be maintaining the household and maximizing financial efficiency. Going down to a one car household is an efficiency we could gain and the savings could be utilized elsewhere.

**Bham1982** · February-13-19, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

Your false dichotomy: You either have to own a car or walk through a blizzard with a baby.

Reality:
There are a variety of options that prevent the "baby in a blizzard" scenario:
- Don't go out in the blizzard [[probably the best option)
- Reschedule appointments
- Utilize ride sharing
- Have groceries delivered [[this cuts into the savings of not having a car, but you still come out ahead)
- Have a friend or relative help you if you're in a bind

LOL. It's quite obvious you don't yet have kids.

You won't have a minute to spare, and aren't gonna reschedule the 567,211 daily things you'll need to do, the vast majority of which can most easily be accomplished via vehicle.

Good luck with all this when the baby needs prescription, milk, diapers, playtime etc. and you decide to wait out the storm, trot out the bike or ask Aunt Marge to do all your errands when she has a minute.

And Uber/Lyft don't accommodate babies. Have fun spending 20 minutes taking car seats in/out while baby sits there and cries.

**O3H** · February-13-19, 10:51 AM

It's called being a BETTER parent, and not a scatterbrained idiot.

For the record, a fact, an absolute truth
- people use bikes, with kids in the winter, in Europe

Even the royalty, a princess, in Denmark is tougher than you pansies

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...openhagen.html

**Bham1982** · February-13-19, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

For the record, a fact, an absolute truth
- people use bikes, with kids in the winter, in Europe

Even the royalty, a princess, in Denmark is tougher than you pansies

Except Denmark barely gets any snow. It's basically Seattle. Northern Europe has extremely mild winters compared to Michigan. And you're seriously comparing Copenhagen to 24 Mile Road and Livernois?

Danish cities are super bike and pedestrian friendly [[i.e. nothing like Rochester Hills or Troy). And they massively tax car ownership/usage. Yet even in Denmark practically everyone has cars, and SUVs are super popular with families.

I bet you when this princess isn't doing photo-ops, she's tooling around with her kids in a large Range Rover, Audi or MB SUV.

**mwilbert** · February-13-19, 11:08 AM

I really think the main point is that there are a lot of ways to get around and get to appointments and acquire physical objects and it is possible, even in transit-deprived Metro Detroit, to live without a car. And more so than in the past, because there are more options than there used to be. So I suspect that there are a fair number of people who own cars who haven't really examined whether that is still the best option, just as there are lots of people who still have landlines out of habit.

Of course, there will be a lot of people whose specific requirements make living without their own car difficult or impossible or just uneconomic, and presumably they should own cars if they can afford it.

**O3H** · February-13-19, 11:09 AM

You are just a pansy, a flower, soft and delicate, right ?

I am comparing it, I will compare it, and I know it first hand from travel.
It's called the government actually plowing, clearing and taking care of snow in places all over Europe - Because people use bicycles all year.
It is a form of transportation used by NON brainwashed forward thinkers.

Let's do some compare and contrast shall we ?

https://howtoguide.org/20-difference...ny-and-the-us/

Some of us have relatives that LIVE over in Europe and know the truth.
Many in the USA are soft, lazy, unorganized, and basically shitty parents
Anyone can make a kid, absolutely anyone --

**Scottathew** · February-13-19, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

LOL. It's quite obvious you don't yet have kids.

You won't have a minute to spare, and aren't gonna reschedule the 567,211 daily things you'll need to do, the vast majority of which can most easily be accomplished via vehicle.

Good luck with all this when the baby needs prescription, milk, diapers, playtime etc. and you decide to wait out the storm, trot out the bike or ask Aunt Marge to do all your errands when she has a minute.

And Uber/Lyft don't accommodate babies. Have fun spending 20 minutes taking car seats in/out while baby sits there and cries.

I have a 7 year old boy and a 9 year old girl. I can install a carseat using the seatbelt method in about a literal minute, it's not difficult. My kids are on the small side, so they do still require car seats at their current height and weight.

I don't have that many things to do... Right now, I spend most of my days at work, and the kids survive just fine without me. In a scenario where I am home the amount of things I need to do doesn't magically increase. Right now my days between 8am and 5pm have nothing scheduled except for me to be at work and the kids to be at school or after school care.

Once again, my scenario is going from a two-car household with two working parents to a one-car house, with one working parent and one stay at home parent. In this scenario a car is available to me 118 hours a week and is unavailable 50 hours a week. I'm rather adaptable and pretty good at planning ahead and having contingencies, so I don't see any issues with this scenario working out for me.

**O3H** · February-13-19, 11:18 AM

Cargo Bikes are used all over the world ---- just not Detroit so much

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...t-cargo-bikes/

**Scottathew** · February-13-19, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I really think the main point is that there are a lot of ways to get around and get to appointments and acquire physical objects and it is possible, even in transit-deprived Metro Detroit, to live without a car. And more so than in the past, because there are more options than there used to be. So I suspect that there are a fair number of people who own cars who haven't really examined whether that is still the best option, just as there are lots of people who still have landlines out of habit.

Of course, there will be a lot of people whose specific requirements make living without their own car difficult or impossible or just uneconomic, and presumably they should own cars if they can afford it.

I feel this is an excellent summary. Thank you for being more eloquent than I!

**Scottathew** · February-13-19, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by O3H

Cargo Bikes are used all over the world ---- just not Detroit so much

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...t-cargo-bikes/

I have a bike trailer that can be used to hold children or cargo. I use it for grocery shopping all the time at destinations such as Meijer and Fresh Thyme, which are about a 1-3 mile round trip for me. They work quite well. And the best part is that I don't need to spend $100 a month on a gym membership because I'm using my bike so much.

It's nice to be agreeing with Mr. O3H again

**O3H** · February-13-19, 11:25 AM

Perhaps Macomb County could actually get a clue and act.
I like the Eastern Market area and what it represents.
https://www.easternmarket.org/district/maps

**Zacha341** · February-13-19, 01:20 PM

$100 a month gym membership? Who's paying that much? Yes, I miss cycling for recreation when I did it.

Originally Posted by 48307

...And the best part is that I don't need to spend $100 a month on a gym membership because I'm using my bike so much.

It's nice to be agreeing with Mr. O3H again

**Zacha341** · February-13-19, 01:24 PM

All power to her ... peddle on! Nice bike BTW!!

Originally Posted by O3H

It's called being a BETTER parent, and not a scatterbrained idiot.

For the record, a fact, an absolute truth
- people use bikes, with kids in the winter, in Europe

Even the royalty, a princess, in Denmark is tougher than you pansies

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...openhagen.html

**dtowncitylover** · February-13-19, 01:42 PM

Well look like's our Bham has picked himself up a PhD in Northern European Meteorology and Scandinavian Royal Houses.

**Bham1982** · February-13-19, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Well look like's our Bham has picked himself up a PhD in Northern European Meteorology and Scandinavian Royal Houses.

Either that or I have basic knowledge about places I've actually lived.

And I wasn't aware one needed a science PhD to ascertain that the Sahara was hot or Seattle is wet.

**O3H** · February-13-19, 01:49 PM

How about keeping up with WORLD news, eh - reading, comprehending, etc

Europe has been hit by a spate of deadly weather conditions in recent days, after a storm swept in from the North Atlantic into Scandinavia and northern Europe. The system, named Storm Zeetje, then made tracks to eastern Europe and brought moist cold air into areas such as the Alps. Ski resorts in the Austrian Alps reported up to seven feet of snow in the first days of January, which lead to many resorts closing over safety concerns.

Where is Denmark - oh, it's up near the TOP of the map, it doesn't snow up there :-)
Next to that other bicycle friendly country , the Netherlands, with almost no snow :-)

Which prince and princess CYCLE with kids almost daily ......hmmmmm

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/242420...53237/?lp=true

Some people are idiots, clueless and stupid.
How many bikes are in this photo, - oh - they left them home, right ?

The bike in the city, regardless of topography or climate, is good business. In Copenhagen, the cycling population contributes $261 million a year in public health savings—enough to pay off the cost of protected bicycle infrastructure in under five years.

Need to buy some snowblowers and a few workers in your city
- take it out of the 100's of millions saved in society.

**dtowncitylover** · February-13-19, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Either that or I have basic knowledge about places I've actually lived.

And I wasn't aware one needed a science PhD to ascertain that the Sahara was hot or Seattle is wet.

One doesn't need smugness either to make points, but here you are.

**Towne Cluber** · February-13-19, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Either that or I have basic knowledge about places I've actually lived.

Do you though? You’ve recently made some completely bogus claims about Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills, two places where you’ve claimed to have lived.

**Towne Cluber** · February-13-19, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

And you're seriously comparing Copenhagen to 24 Mile Road and Livernois?

There’s no such thing as “24 Mile Road and Livernois”.

**O3H** · February-13-19, 02:17 PM

I actually like sarcasm, a lot. Comic strips poking fun at people make me smile.
Toughen up, wear a real jacket, for rain, for snow, for wind, etc.
Did I mention I actual owns snowshoes as well , yep walk in winter,
off the path, through a forest, without aid, help, assistance.

**Bham1982** · February-13-19, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Do you though? You’ve recently made some completely bogus claims about Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills, two places where you’ve claimed to have lived.

I've never claimed to live in Bloomfield Hills, because I haven't. I've lived in the Township, though.

What "bogus claims" are you referring to?

**Towne Cluber** · February-13-19, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I've never claimed to live in Bloomfield Hills, because I haven't. I've lived in the Township, though.

What "bogus claims" are you referring to?

Surely you know that the Township uses the Hills as a mailing address and Hills is usually said conversationally...

Take your pick: “Rochester Hills Whole Foods is closer”, “Million dollar homes in the 14 Mile/Woodward area”, “Can’t get anything for under a million in Bloomfield Village”, “there are barely any Jewish people in Bloomfield Hills”...

**Bham1982** · February-13-19, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Surely you know that the Township uses the Hills as a mailing address and Hills is usually said conversationally...

Take your pick: “Rochester Hills Whole Foods is closer”, “Million dollar homes in the 14 Mile/Woodward area”, “Can’t get anything for under a million in Bloomfield Village”, “there are barely any Jewish people in Bloomfield Hills”...

Yeah, that was all true. Rochester WF is closer to north end of Bloomfield, there are million dollar homes right off 14, Bloomfield Village is basically a million+ at this point [[excepting estate sales) and there are barely any Jews in Bloomfield Hills [[but lots in Township and WB).

Sorry, you'll have to work harder at [[bizarrely) documenting my posts.

**Towne Cluber** · February-13-19, 04:12 PM

You are consistently dishonest. It is truly bizarre that you are sticking to those bogus claims. There’s no way that you actually grew up in Bloomfield and live in Birmingham.