Don't buy a car - Live in Detroit anyways

[Zacha341]

Hah! I have a 98' in great condition subscribing to the 'contribution-to-recycling' car concept!

Guaranteeing everyone [[able bodied for, or the disinterested in working) free group transpo, a living wage is a great vote-puller but hard to pull off in reality, unless we're all living well beyond the poverty line.

The elite will not live that way, whatsoever! It's just good for the masses.

It cannot be that bad,I live in the hood and seem to drive the oldest car around,[[1997),everybody else is driving new or less then two year old cars,employed or not.

[Zacha341]

#ownacarifyouwantto

Not to be outdone by its stunning subhead:

#thoseinpowerwill!

#banallcars

[dtowncitylover]

#ownacarifyouwantto

Not to be outdone by its stunning subhead:

#thoseinpowerwill!

LOL I really don't want to ban ALL cars. Maybe just F-250s in the city center.

[dtowncitylover]

Please re-read my post, slowly this time, until what I wrote sinks in. The roads are "broken" because the money is being diverted to pay for the riderless buses shit, so the people riding them can pay $1.75 a ride, because they're "entitled". #this

That's cute you think MDOT is diverting all this money to transit as if SMART and DDOT have suddenly evolved into a Alpha World City transit system and Detroit roads are now suddenly worse than Haiti.

Please tell the other 20+ people on my bus every morning they are entitled. Or the 30+ people on my FAST bus downtown the other night. Oh, wait they're empty buses, they must be figments of my imagination.

"HOW DARE PUBLIC TRANSIT EXIST. THEY NEED TO FIX MY ROADS" -Screams temper-tantrum guy about "entitlements"

"IM ENTITLED TO MY CAR AND GOOD ROADS AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN PISS OFF" -same guy went on

I mean this is usually how my transit interactions happen around here.

Me: I think we need to fully fund the RTA and invest in transit and roads so our region can be be more attractive.
People like Honky Tonk: I think you should piss off becauseI need my car and I need good roads and I don't want to pay for someone else's transportation and they should pay for all of it. But how about the government pay for better roads.
Me: How about we do all those things.
People like Honky Tonk: YOU'RE SO ENTITLED. WHAT ABOUT ROADS? WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS?

Ok, my rant is over.

[Zacha341]

Hah. I can play along!

It's always starts gradual don't cha' know !

First it's de' trucks! Then, WHY are YOU driving that four-door sedan when it's just you in it!?

Like who's rich that we can all agree upon needin' a tax fleecing and income distribution -- you know first it's them big billion dollar folk.

Wait! Then it's the Johnston's making 102K with three children! Yep they're selfishly rich too!! Let's judge that income and redistribute.

Other examples abound.

But I digress...

LOL I really don't want to ban ALL cars. Maybe just F-250s in the city center.

[dtowncitylover]

Hah. Well, it always starts gradual don't cha' know !

First it's de' trucks! Then WHY are YOU driving that four-door sedan when it's just you in it!?

Like who's rich that we can all agree upon needin' a tax fleecing and income distribution -- you know first it's that big billion dollar folk.

Wait! Then it the Johnston's making 102K with three children! Yep they're rich too. Let's judge that income and redistribute.

Other examples abound.

But I digress...

I mean, yeah I hope one day Detroit is as busy as London or Paris where we do limit all vehicular traffic in parts of the central city in order to create a more pedestrian and cycling friendly environment.

[Zacha341]

^^^I hear that! Such as the cutting off of Woodward at Jefferson. That IS nice. I still think that many Detroiter's love their cars and the advantages therein.

And I'm not feeling, for instant the increasingly insanely dangerous driving I am seeing more! Wreckless crazy peddling too!

[Honky Tonk]

That's cute you think MDOT is diverting all this money to transit as if SMART and DDOT have suddenly evolved into a Alpha World City transit system and Detroit roads are now suddenly worse than Haiti.

Please tell the other 20+ people on my bus every morning they are entitled. Or the 30+ people on my FAST bus downtown the other night. Oh, wait they're empty buses, they must be figments of my imagination.

"HOW DARE PUBLIC TRANSIT EXIST. THEY NEED TO FIX MY ROADS" -Screams temper-tantrum guy about "entitlements"

"IM ENTITLED TO MY CAR AND GOOD ROADS AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN PISS OFF" -same guy went on

I mean this is usually how my transit interactions happen around here.

Me: I think we need to fully fund the RTA and invest in transit and roads so our region can be be more attractive.
People like Honky Tonk: I think you should piss off becauseI need my car and I need good roads and I don't want to pay for someone else's transportation and they should pay for all of it. But how about the government pay for better roads.
Me: How about we do all those things.
People like Honky Tonk: YOU'RE SO ENTITLED. WHAT ABOUT ROADS? WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS?

Ok, my rant is over.

There's "20 or 30" people on your bus in the morning. The rest of the day they run around either empty or near empty @ a big loss. Don't want a car and want to continue to be chauffeured around in a 50 ft. limo, then start coming up with the scratch to support it, don't expect me to. Otherwise move back home and yell down to Mom that you need a ride to Buffy's house. I'm sure she'll come a runnin' to drive her little boy wherever he needs to go. Problem solved. People like you never had to fend for themselves.

[O3H]

I'll see ALL that and raise it one notch - because it's Hilarious !!!!!

[Pat001]

A car is a burden, a monkey on the back, a money pit, for families.

True. But for most people in the Detroit area, a car is, and will continue to be a necessity. Can't get to/from work without a car. Can't get the kids to/from school or after-school activities without a car. Can't get groceries & do other errands or take a family vacation without a car. Few areas in the Detroit area have neighborhoods that are truly "walk-able."

[Richard]

Oh, do you go out asking drivers if they're employed or not?

No,just aware of my surroundings.Everybody is aware of what everybody else is doing.

[Honky Tonk]

No,just aware of my surroundings.Everybody is aware of what everybody else is doing.

And yet, some people are just clueless.

[Scottathew]

I think it's cool you want to be a stay-at-home dad, but you will likely be the only dad in Troy tooling around the blizzards on a bike. You're gonna take the baby to WalMart by bike on a day like today?

Why live somewhere like Troy if you don't want to use cars? Troy is like 1000% car-oriented. It's almost municipal law to require two large SUVs in every household.

Not that it matters much, but I'm in Rochester Hills, not Troy. Also of note, I'm proposing selling off one of two cars my family has. This would mean my wife would use the car to get to and from work, leaving me without a car during the day.

I live within walking\biking distance to the Hampton Shopping Center, Meijer, Lowes, Fresh Thyme, etc... I live within a few hundred feet of a CVS.

When the weather is too extreme, I would simply stay at home. The kids get picked up and dropped of by a school bus. I could get my grocery shopping done on days when the roads and sidewalks are clear enough to take my bike and bike trailer. I don't need to shop every day, nor am I required to shop when my wife has the car [[I could do it in the evening or on the weekend).

Worst case scenario I would just use Uber or a grocery delivery service, or order stuff on Amazon. There is a premium to be paid for some of those, so I would use them sparingly, and still come out ahead of owning a car. It's a myth that one must be able to utilize a car at any given moment.

As to the question, why live in Rochester Hills while wanting to be less car dependent? My answer is that I want really good public schools for my children, access to great parks and trails, and low crime. We're grounded in Michigan due to my family and my wife and I both have good paying jobs in the Metro Detroit area.

I certainly understand the "I'm gonna be a bad ass and ride my bike during the winter" lifestyle isn't for everyone, but I do think it's not as bad or as impossible as people think.

My friends think I'm crazy because I walk three blocks from the bus stop to work, but I know that it's not a big deal and it improves my life. I feel the same way about riding my bike, even in the winter time.

[O3H]

How many read the FIRST post ?

- He went to work, daily.
- His family went on vacation
- The made it to appointments around town
- It happened now, in the polar vortex, winter in the D

They don't own a car.

Stop with the excuses, it is quite possible, if you choose to do it.

NO I won't read you a bedtime story - you'll have to read it yourself
https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/2802906002/

Bikes do just fine in the snow, in town, in urban settings
https://youtu.be/9sgdJkaS174

[Zacha341]

For sure a necessity for many. Not all areas are walkable. Especially for food/ groceries. And all are not able to cycle, peddle or walk long distances to and from a bus stop or the Qline or otherwise. Further, as crime and random violence continues walking about or waiting for buses early am and at night is not always a good idea in certain areas. Especially for women. I avoid being out on foot alone at night.

True. But for most people in the Detroit area, a car is, and will continue to be a necessity. Can't get to/from work without a car. Can't get the kids to/from school or after-school activities without a car. Can't get groceries & do other errands or take a family vacation without a car. Few areas in the Detroit area have neighborhoods that are truly "walk-able."

[Zacha341]

Back to the original post and associated article:

I don't have a car in Detroit: How it went during polar vortex

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...it/2802906002/

To those who can manage it I say all power to them, I can't peddle [[beyond the gym) or inhale much cold air. Winter's when I REALLY need a car.

And this winter really pushed the envelope! Further, Whole Foods cannot be my sole grocery option. Setting price aside, there are foods we consume beyond what they carry. I work in the city and suburbs where timely arrival is crucial.

Did anyone notice he did not mention busses? Sound a bit martyrish to be out in -13 below weather long; a temperature level that can kill and for some damage/ strain your heart and lungs per long exposure.

But, I would imagine that someone paying big high downtown rents would need to offset that by not owning a car. Again I say all power to them. I have made other choices that allow me to afford a used car.

Indeed many cars [[new and old) went down no doubt [[accidents, stuck, burned transmissions, engines conked etc.). No doubt costs rise during winter. My car seems to burn more gas. But still worth having a car one can otherwise afford, if you want to.

Certainly, it was very rough this winter on cars and the body. I found it most smart to consolidate errands and work to minimize time out in it. Just the shortest amount of exposure was scary cold, painful to fingers and feet and in some cases deadly.

At a few points I called Lyft to preserve my car which is an older model and I was feeling ill. Nice to step into a newer car for a few short errands and business weather withstanding.

Lyft drivers were all about even in the coldest days [[per the app you can see how many active drivers are in your area). Great service, good price, discounts. Car based-curb service. Greater in such weather.

I would not have wanted to be at the bus stops those days. Some business, colleges and many K12 schools closed, state of emergency was called. It was advised to stay in.

Lyft and Uber are an option for those choosing not to personally own a car.

I still say #ownacarifyouwantto

Or not.

[Richard]

Try being bike dependent where I am at,do not have to worry about snow,heat of the summer or alligators it’s the 3500# cars and trucks that decreases your life expectancy.

I tried the car less thing for 5 years,even bought a house in the bus line,the problem became that with customers if you did not drive you were considered lower class and were always wanting to pay crackhead prices.

So I bought a $500 service vehicle and doubled my prices and not a single complaint since.

If you go to places like philly or New York etc. nobody thinks twice about not having a car,but they also have options so it is not a requirement.

[dtowncitylover]

People like you never had to fend for themselves.

No, I thank God for my parents, family, and my society that has brought me things like life, vaccines, vacations, farmers, transit, roads, and society.

Unless you're trying to say I've never had to live on my own. Well, yes I have. I am currently. I don't rely on mother and father for groceries, bus pass, bill payments, etc.

[ABetterDetroit]

How many times do the exact same posters have to repeat that they drive cheap used cars? 100? Everyday?

We get it, you love cheap beaters! Great! Good for You!

The details of your personal choices really aren’t that fucking interesting on an anonymous forum. There are millions of cars in Metro Detroit, Everyone we know has them.

Again, when it’s repeated like a parrot over and over the average reader starts to come to conclusions that you obviously never thought about like ‘Why does this poster practically plead for validation of this decision they have made in their lives and of all places on God’s green earth, why would they do that here???’

[softailrider]

I’ll give up my car when they pry the keys out of my cold dead fingers.

[Scottathew]

Good luck with that bike idea in January and February around here.

It's really not too bad as long as there hasn't been a storm recently. Snow comes, gets plowed, and melts. Layers and facial protection can handle most temperatures.

I already recreationally ride my bike during winter. During it for a purpose would probably involve shorter trips that what I do now.

Also, the nice thing is that during the worst of the weather you simply just don't need to go outside unless you have a pressing reason. Appointments can be rescheduled if not important, or you can use Uber and Lyft for the rare occasions where a jobless person must be somewhere.

I'm not saying that this is something that everyone ought to do, but it's certainly something I'd be willing to try.

[Scottathew]

How many times do the exact same posters have to repeat that they drive cheap used cars? 100? Everyday?

We get it, you love cheap beaters! Great! Good for You!

The details of your personal choices really aren’t that fucking interesting on an anonymous forum. There are millions of cars in Metro Detroit, Everyone we know has them.

Again, when it’s repeated like a parrot over and over the average reader starts to come to conclusions that you obviously never thought about like ‘Why does this poster practically plead for validation of this decision they have made in their lives and of all places on God’s green earth, why would they do that here???’

When I see topics that I'm not interested in or sick of reading, I don't click on them! It avoids frustration.

People like to share alternate ways of doing things. For example, someone back in January of 2018 shared information about taking the bus to work, and that has really improved my life, and I first had my awakening here.

I don't need validation, but I am excited to share my point of view to those that may be receptive to it. I'm also excited to read other's points of view.

[Richard]

How many times do the exact same posters have to repeat that they drive cheap used cars? 100? Everyday?

We get it, you love cheap beaters! Great! Good for You!

The details of your personal choices really aren’t that fucking interesting on an anonymous forum. There are millions of cars in Metro Detroit, Everyone we know has them.

Again, when it’s repeated like a parrot over and over the average reader starts to come to conclusions that you obviously never thought about like ‘Why does this poster practically plead for validation of this decision they have made in their lives and of all places on God’s green earth, why would they do that here???’

Its only like the 400th thread on owning a car in Detroit,based off of a link that is opinion based,so it would stand to reason that it will be the same replies.

Ditch the car and ride a bike.
Ditch the car and ride a bus.
I do not support public transportation because I do not use it.
I do not support fixing the highways because I ride a bike and do not use them.

I am for public transportation.
I am against it.

Sums it up.

The question is,how come every time they print an opinion based on the yearly costs to operate a car in any given city,they never include the actual purchase price and monthly payment in the yearly costs.

So are they really targeting those who cannot afford a car and payment for support,because it is really based on owning a paid for car.

But then again if the lower income brackets are being targeted as not being able to afford or are burdened by automotive ownership,how come the majority of cars on the road are,or seem to be,less then 3 years old?

Bottom line is people as a majority like to be seen in style,whether they can afford it or not,the attempt to win hearts and minds to become pro public transit is not working based on a revolving door of,it costs to much to own a car so here is a better solution.

The cost of ownership in the bigger picture is really irrelevant because everybody’s situation is different and only represents a segment of their financial realm.

I did check,it would cost the same in Detroit to have my cars as it does in Tampa and as it did in Orlando,it is just an insurance zip code thing.

Orlando is steady adding trains and transit routes but you will still spend 2 hours a day sitting in traffic,it is physiological and not based on economics.

Detroit is not exclusive to the auto eccentric concept,it is an amercian thing and it is hard to use other countries as a reference point or guidelines because they are compact cities where solely relying on a bicycle or public transit has been a way of life for 100s of years.

[Bham1982]

It's really not too bad as long as there hasn't been a storm recently. Snow comes, gets plowed, and melts. Layers and facial protection can handle most temperatures.

Or you can just hop in your climate controlled AWD car in an insulated garage. 99.9% are gonna choose this option over biking with baby in blizzard through sprawl.

[ABetterDetroit]

When I see topics that I'm not interested in or sick of reading, I don't click on them! It avoids frustration.

People like to share alternate ways of doing things. For example, someone back in January of 2018 shared information about taking the bus to work, and that has really improved my life, and I first had my awakening here.

I don't need validation, but I am excited to share my point of view to those that may be receptive to it. I'm also excited to read other's points of view.

Oh my mistake.

A thread titled ‘Don’t buy a car Live in Detroit’ is really about what kind of cars the OP prefers to own, drive and purchase as well as the others who have stated numerous times their personal preference in their own cars. Makes sense now...