Dearborn Mayor Suppressing Publication of Article on Henry Ford's Anti-Semitism

[archfan]

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You state that Israel is despised for being a religious state . Do the people who despise Israel also despise other religious states such as the the dozens of Islamic states ? If not , then they actually are anti semites.
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In Palestinian territory its a criminal offense... more about Somalia, Mauritania, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia , Sudan , Bunei ,Nigeria ,Yemen, Qatar.
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This looks like whataboutism in another form to me. No one was talking about those countries.

[Towne Cluber]

This looks like whataboutism in another form to me. No one was talking about those countries.

It was a fair question. If one doesn’t hold a consistent view, regardless of the country and its religious background, rather than against just one country and its religion, then it really is about something else...

Interesting to see that there has been a lot of intentional misinformation, non-answers, and deflecting on this thread. No wonder the Dearborn mayor didn’t want his city to be associated with the topic! It’s bad for ‘business’ and a no-win situation that could have been avoided.

[Johnnny5]

What a coincidence. "2215" registers on DYES to defend and support the State of Israel. Anyone want to bet that they we never see them post on any other thread, or never see them post again period?

[Pat001]

Henry Ford's antisemitism has been well-documented. One local magazine suppressing a story about Ford's antisemitism is not going to re-write history.

[Towne Cluber]

What a coincidence. "2215" registers on DYES to defend and support the State of Israel. Anyone want to bet that they we never see them post on any other thread, or never see them post again period?

Indeed, there seem to be a number of coincidences on this thread. I'd rather have a new person post facts and never post on another thread, or never see them post again period...than some of the long-time posters on here that intentionally and repeatedly make outright false and/or highly misleading posts about all sorts of matters.

[2215]

Charges of whataboutusm are a lazy and passive aggressive way to try to shut down speach you don't agree with. Its positive discourse to expose hypocrisy, lies , double standards and obfuscation or as you term it "whataboutism".

If someone states they despise Israel for reasons xyz , yet 50 other countries can be shown to be doing xyz + much worse and this person does not despise those countries as well ,than those are lying justifications and lies deserve to be exposed.

Its politocally incorrect these days to say you hate Jews ,so using Israel as a proxy is far a more common response. I would prefer honesty over lies and respect someone more who simply told the truth " I despise Jews therefore I despise Israel".

It might be interesting to hear peoples justifications and see how many countries are doing the same or worse but escaping bad press or scrutiny.

[SammyS]

What a coincidence. "2215" registers on DYES to defend and support the State of Israel. Anyone want to bet that they we never see them post on any other thread, or never see them post again period?

There's a whole industry dedicated to online Israeli propaganda, but more accurately, anti Israel counter measure specifically targeting blog sites like Dyes. It's called Hasbara and it pays.

https://medium.com/@thepalestineproj...s-7ac8a26d4ff4

[Towne Cluber]

There's a whole industry dedicated to online Israeli propaganda, but more accurately, anti Israel counter measure specifically targeting blog sites like Dyes. It's called Hasbara and it pays.

https://medium.com/@thepalestineproj...s-7ac8a26d4ff4

Could that type of thing go both ways? Do you believe that there's anti-Israel propaganda as well?

[SammyS]

Could that type of thing go both ways? Do you believe that there's anti-Israel propaganda as well?

College students and bloggers paid to push anti-Israel propaganda? Not that I'm aware of.

[Towne Cluber]

College students and bloggers paid to push anti-Israel propaganda? Not that I'm aware of.

To think that only one side is or isn’t doing something isn’t very reasonable nor realistic.

[SammyS]

To think that only one side is or isn’t doing something isn’t very reasonable nor realistic.

Right and neither am I suggesting that "2215" is a paid Hasbara troll

[Johnnny5]

There's a whole industry dedicated to online Israeli propaganda, but more accurately, anti Israel counter measure specifically targeting blog sites like Dyes. It's called Hasbara and it pays.

https://medium.com/@thepalestineproj...s-7ac8a26d4ff4

There is, and that's a possibility that I was indirectly alluding to with my post.

[2215]

There is, and that's a possibility that I was indirectly alluding to with my post.

Im not paid by anyone to post , nor an I connected with any organization. I just wanted to insert facts where there was only hyperbole and propganda. Implying someone is a paid troll is another way to silence people you disagree with.

Here is some evidence of anti Israel organizations using fake accounts to spread lies and anti Israel propganda. Makes you wonder about some posters here [[ not you of course) after reading it.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liberm...to-play-havoc/

In the case of the manufactured anti-Israel outcry over “Tel Aviv on the Seine”, the hyped false hysteria was traced to a total of 39,688 tweets, generated within three days and attributed to 10,428​ Twitter accounts –of which only 2,941​ could be traced to genuine French users. The rest were bots and sock-puppets, which created a purported avalanche of protest that managed to set the political agenda in Paris in the run-up to the festival, and came close to achieving the goal — the cancellation of a pro-Israel event.

More recently, in the case of New Zealand pop singer Lorde’s decision in December 2017 to cancel a concert in Israel under ostensible huge and vast BDS pressure, 96% of all Twitter traffic directed at her, in the successful effort to pressure her into cancelling, was ultimately traced to 172 Twitter accounts,

[archfan]

Charges of whataboutusm are a lazy and passive aggressive way to try to shut down speach you don't agree with. Its positive discourse to expose hypocrisy, lies , double standards and obfuscation or as you term it "whataboutism".

If someone states they despise Israel for reasons xyz , yet 50 other countries can be shown to be doing xyz + much worse and this person does not despise those countries as well ,than those are lying justifications and lies deserve to be exposed.

Its politocally incorrect these days to say you hate Jews ,so using Israel as a proxy is far a more common response. I would prefer honesty over lies and respect someone more who simply told the truth " I despise Jews therefore I despise Israel".

It might be interesting to hear peoples justifications and see how many countries are doing the same or worse but escaping bad press or scrutiny.

So by that logic, if I talk about conditions in Etruria, but I don't exhaustively discuss the conditions in Carthage, and Kush, and Sumer, and Nanda, and Scythia, and Sarmatia, then the reason is because I hate Etruscans, and not because I want to stick to a subject? It must be exhausting having a conversation with you.

[313WX]

It is kind of weird that someone would join out of the clear blue sky with an odd throway username and, without having contributed elsewhere or introducing themselves, accuses others of logical fallacies [[I.E. "whataboutism") and interjects their "alternative facts" into a controversial discussion.

Not saying they're a troll, but if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's understandable why some would be suspicious. This is especially when a ton of other sites have recently reported being infiltrated by paid propagandists to push an agenda.

[Richard]

^ or it could be a poster logged in another name.

I just wanted to insert facts where there was only hyperbole and propganda.

where have we heard that before?

granted there is logic in consistency on comparables.

[Canadian Visitor]

May I say that I find where this thread has done disturbing.

Irrespective [[for the moment) of anyone's positions on Israel or anything else, a discussion that was essentially about censorship and the same backfiring has become one about identity politics and obsessions with Israel or Jews or whatever.

I'm consistent in the fact that the OP's subject is what should be discussed in a thread...for or against, with evidence.

The op's subject was not contemporary Israel or Jews.

WTF!

****

That said........

I will comment that I find anyone's hatred of a nation-state weird/intellectually offensive.

The State itself is lines on a map and a bureaucratic machine.

Its like hating a wall...

If one has critiques to offer of Israel [[in the correct thread, surely in the non-Detroit section)..........

The critiques ought to be about finding issue w/the current leader or with aspects of its laws or programs or policies. Not hating the state.

Really hate itself has no place in public discourse.

[Towne Cluber]

This thread has become one of the weirdest that I’ve seen on this site, and that’s not an easy thing to do with some of the stuff that gets posted on here. A lot of silence, trying to change the subject, and conspiracy theory type of stuff. Unfortunately, it says a lot.

[313WX]

^ or it could be a poster logged in another name.

I just wanted to insert facts where there was only hyperbole and propganda.

where have we heard that before?

granted there is logic in consistency on comparables.

Yes, that occured to me as well.

[pkbroch]

What in the hell has all this to do with original topic?

And another thought, we all had a first post which was inspired by a topic we cared about, I have seen many first posters who have become regulars. We all weren't trolls.

[Towne Cluber]

What in the hell has all this to do with original topic?

The same type of Jewish/Israel responses happened when Deadline Detroit published the article. No doubt, this is the exact type of thing that Dearborn's mayor was trying to avoid...and that Deadline Detroit counted on for publicity [[the provocative magazine cover, at least).

[softailrider]

Alan Dershowitz wrote an interesting article on HF and his anti- semitism. If you go to his twitter page it’s right there.

[Richard]

PC correctness aside I do not find Henry Ford doing anything different that the rest of the world was doing at the time,even up until the 1950s some countries still classified Jews as second class citizens even today mentioning Jews in a certain trade in SA and you will get thrown out on your ear at best.

Nobody cared when Hitler started his purges until he attacked Poland,it was just Gypsies and Jews,even after everybody knew what was happening,the United States,Cuba,Canada and many other countries refused port to a shipload of escaping Jews knowing full well of their fate.

They ended up returning back to Germany and the camps.

okay,what makes Henry Fords antisemitism any different then the rest of the world at the time and beyond?

If all of the sudden cherry trees became beloved what would the reaction be to George Washington posing next to a cherry tree with an axe.

[Canadian Visitor]

PC correctness aside I do not find Henry Ford doing anything different that the rest of the world was doing at the time,even up until the 1950s some countries still classified Jews as second class citizens even today mentioning Jews in a certain trade in SA and you will get thrown out on your ear at best.

Nobody cared when Hitler started his purges until he attacked Poland,it was just Gypsies and Jews,even after everybody knew what was happening,the United States,Cuba,Canada and many other countries refused port to a shipload of escaping Jews knowing full well of their fate.

They ended up returning back to Germany and the camps.

okay,what makes Henry Fords antisemitism any different then the rest of the world at the time and beyond?

If all of the sudden cherry trees became beloved what would the reaction be to George Washington posing next to a cherry tree with an axe.

The above is substantially accurate and reasonable [[how odd, LOL) ....

I agree that one must fairly judge any historical figure in the context of their times.

But that doesn't mean they should be mindlessly revered or that descriptions of them should overlook their more obvious flaws by today's standards.

Few if any people are ever worthy of reverential treatment.

Their contributions to history and thereby contemporary society may well merit acknowledgement but that can be still be tempered by discussing the negative aspects of their role in history.

That doesn't mean throwing out their positive contribution, just contextualizing it.

[O3H]

So we shouldn't throw away the Bagle eaters with the boiling water ?
i.e the baby and the bath water scenario.

""Few if any people are ever worthy of reverential treatment.""
I would revise that to NO ONE is better than anyone else,
even religious representatives [[which are still human afterall)