Warren gets a downtown

[softailrider]

Why is everyone shitting on this so hard? Is this cathartic for you guys or something? I've seen the renders and the materials look good. it's great to see them strive for more walkable development and give people different options for housing.

Couldnt agree more. I can’t understand the utter dislike for Warren that you find on this forum. It looks like it has some really nice neighborhoods [[and some crappy ones) and is noted for having great city services. The mayor seems to be a bit of a peculiar fellow but he keeps the trains running on time and is constantly re-elected. For a young couple with kids, or an older couple with no kids who don’t want to rent and are looking for affordable housing in a secure area with decent schools, I don’t think Warren would be a bad choice at all. Most people aren’t concerned about living in a city that’s hip or groovy, and not everybody can afford a condo up the street from the DIA.

[313WX]

...The mayor seems to be a bit of a peculiar fellow...

^^^The biggest understatement ever, especially given those recording of him. And the fact that people in that city tolerate such behavior quite frankly says a lot about their character [[or lack thereof).

...but he keeps the trains running...

Since when does Warren have rail transit?

I can’t understand the utter dislike for Warren that you find on this forum...

Anyone getting offended or upset about criticism of Warren needs to get over thmeselves and stop being such snowflakes.

It's an extremely basic city at best [[aging/small housing stock, limited assortment of retail, lack of walkability, lack of progressive leadership, schools that while decent are on a downward trajectory, endless abandoned manufacturing/warehouse factories, etc.) and the epitome of a city whose existence is owed entirely to mid-century white working class flight based mostly around racism against black people who had the nerve to move into *their* Detroit neighborhoods and attend *their* Detroit schools.

Hell, visit any random place in Warren and you'll hear nothing but derison about Detroit and those "Detroiters." Frankly, they're just getting back what they've put out there over the last 60 years of their existence [[from the so-called leaderships to the residents themselves) in terms of vitriol, self-segregation and the lack of cooperation with its big city neighbor to the detriment of the region's growth/success since the 1970s, especially now that lifestyle and culture it espoused once upon a time is no longer tolerated nor competitive in the 21st century.

[EGrant]

This development is simply reality. We live in a car-centric area, and that might not change for 100 years. I'm an advocate for mass transit, density, walkability and all the other catchphrases of what makes a "good city" but that's just not realistic in the Detroit area. We're never going to get the London Underground's transit mixed with Paris' urban neighborhoods like so many armchair urban planners here and on Twitter want with every single project that gets posted here, and that's ok. Can we demand better than Troy's "downtown" of 6 Andiamo's clones? Yeah. Are we going to get 6 Andiamo's clones because that's what people who live in Troy want? Yep.

Sure this isn't perfect, it involves a lot of parking and it's in Warren, but its something that is inching towards a better urban experience within an extremely suburban suburb.

[Towne Cluber]

^^^The biggest understatement ever, especially given those recording of him. And the fact that people in that city tolerate such behavior quite frankly says a lot about their character [[or lack thereof).



Since when does Warren have rail transit?



Anyone getting offended or upset about criticism of Warren needs to get over thmeselves and stop being such snowflakes.

It's an extremely basic city at best [[aging/small housing stock, limited assortment of retail, lack of walkability, lack of progressive leadership, schools that while decent are on a downward trajectory, endless abandoned manufacturing/warehouse factories, etc.) and the epitome of a city whose existence is owed entirely to mid-century white working class flight based mostly around racism against black people who had the nerve to move into *their* Detroit neighborhoods and attend *their* Detroit schools.

Hell, visit any random place in Warren and you'll hear nothing but derison about Detroit and those "Detroiters." Frankly, they're just getting back what they've put out there over the last 60 years of their existence [[from the so-called leaderships to the residents themselves) in terms of vitriol, self-segregation and the lack of cooperation with its big city neighbor to the detriment of the region's growth/success since the 1970s, especially now that lifestyle and culture it espoused once upon a time is no longer tolerated nor competitive in the 21st century.

Unfortunately, the same could be said about a lot of the corrupt officials that we’ve had [[and still have) in Detroit. There are a lot of Black former Detroiters living in Warren now.

[jcole]

I think this was initially considered "Downtown Warren" years ago, here at Beebe's Corners
https://goo.gl/maps/irLTqhnmBqt

[313WX]

Unfortunately, the same could be said about a lot of the corrupt officials that we’ve had [[and still have) in Detroit.

This thread is about Warren, not Detroit.

[Towne Cluber]

This thread is about Warren, not Detroit.

In this context, you can’t discuss one without the other. Detroiters behaving in the same manner as those that moved to Warren for racist reasons are just as morally wrong and just complicit in regional divisions. You can’t have it both ways.

[313WX]

...you can’t discuss one without the other...

Sure you can.

Otherwise, what you're doing is a textbook logical fallacy [[whataboutism), just like the US president loves to do all of the time, in a transparent attempt to derail the discussion about Warren.

If you want to discuss Detroit's problems, create another thread for it. But if you want to address the points I made about Warren in my post on their own merits, then I'm all ears.

[Lowell]

I have a saying that 'you can make new friends, but you can never make old friends'.

That can be applied here by substituting friends with downtowns. So any illusions of creating 'ye olde' downtowns is wrong-headed. Nonetheless creating a residential setting with walkable center for basic need2, as this project appears to be, is good start.

The challenge is building a sense of community among the new residents, likely almost all of whom will be strangers. As far as I know little thought is given to that. Instead it is just a 'throw them together and see what happens'.

Community construction should emphasized as much as physical construction. Unfortunately that cannot be front-loaded except as in instances of emigrants moving en masse from one place to another. Some of this occurred in the back-in-the-day ethnic neighborhoods of Detroit, a somewhat recent example being along Conant in Hamtramck with the Bengali move from Brooklyn beginning the 1990's.

The fabric of old friendships, clubs, associations, faith, sports and traditions are what could make such projects as the proposed one in Warren successful and sustainable and not just another strip mall.

How can that be done?

[O3H]

People seem to forget that it is one the top 5, largest cities,
of Michigan via population and square mileage.
The City of Warren needs to evolve into 2020+

Let's hope the development takes into account the massive
amount of water that ""can"" build up in the area during heavy rain.
HUGE parking lots at Industrial Complexes like the
GM Tech Center with USTACOM & Arsenal nearby need real drainage.

Sidenote - both areas NOT walkable to the public at large.
People are force to walk around these 2 massive secure sites

General Motors Tech Center along Mound Road and Van Dyke




The Tank Arsenal site on Mound Road in Warren

[bust]

Lots of evidence of the self-defeating local rivalries and prejudices that plague metro Detroit on this thread.

Yeah, Warren may as well be exhibit A for failed car-centric planning. Its mayor is a racist crackpot. And it's not easy to design urbanity. But yes, you can. And this is a step in the right direction.

Haters and snobs do everyone a favor get over yourselves. You will be better off too.

[Towne Cluber]

This thread is about Warren, not Detroit.

Yet YOU mentioned Detroit in it first. Do as I say and not as I do, right?

[Towne Cluber]

Sure you can.

Otherwise, what you're doing is a textbook logical fallacy [[whataboutism), just like the US president loves to do all of the time, in a transparent attempt to derail the discussion about Warren.

If you want to discuss Detroit's problems, create another thread for it. But if you want to address the points I made about Warren in my post on their own merits, then I'm all ears.

Your description of Warren was very dated [[1970s or 80s) and does not reflect the 21st Century. Warren has a relatively large [[and growing) African-American as well as Asian population. Furthermore, the school districts in Warren have various forms of open enrollment programs that have attracted a substantial number of non-resident minority students.

Your [[equally faulty) emotional response of “giving back what was previously done” is a textbook example of human nature. It is not exclusive to any one race or resident of a given area.

[O3H]

Perhaps some need to re-acquaint themselves with The City of Warren

https://vimeo.com/288792534

If Warren isn't Detroit then NONE of the other suburbs are either

[poobert]

Lots of evidence of the self-defeating local rivalries and prejiduces that plague metro Detroit on this thread.

Yeah, Warren may as well be exhibit A for failed car-centric planning. Its mayor is a crackpot. And it's not easy to design urbanity. But yes, you can. And this is a step in the right direction.

Haters and snobs do everyone a favor get over yourselves. You will be better off too.

With all due respect, people are allowed their opinions, and I believe this forum is just the place to share them.

The moderator deletes threads that are abusive and inappropriate, but as far as I can see everyone here is being pretty civil, for the most part. More civil than the President is on his best days, anyway.

No one has to like this. No one has to like Warren. But there are clearly plenty of people here who do, and plenty of people here with valid critiques, too.

[313WX]

Yet YOU mentioned Detroit in it first.

No I didn't.

[poobert]

I think this was initially considered "Downtown Warren" years ago, here at Beebe's Corners
https://goo.gl/maps/irLTqhnmBqt

Thanks for posting this! I was thinking about this intersection and couldn't remember it.

A bakery, a very good brewery, other assorted little places, businesses without setbacks from the street, and some interesting older housing stock on the sidestreets. I remember driving by there and thinking about how it could be promising.

They would just need to reduce the lanes on Mound. They could do what has been done on Jefferson east of downtown or on Michigan in Corktown. I have no idea how that would affect the flow of traffic given that Mound is almost like an expressway, but it would be great if Warren could figure out both developments.

[313WX]

Your description of Warren was very dated [[1970s or 80s)...

I think my description of the city [[both best case and worst case) were accurate.

It is true in 2018 that the mayor is a terrible person [[even if he manages to keep the city functional at the most basic level). It's also true that it has an aging/small housing stock, has a limited assortment of retail, lacks walkability, lacks progressive leadership, and its schools are [[while decent) are on a downward trajectory. It's also true that a drive through the main streets im South Warren will feature a ton of abandoned/blighted manufacturing/warehouse eye sores.

And it is also true that Warren was the main destination for working class white people who were fleeing black people in Detroit when it experienced exponential growth to become the city it is today.

So what exactly did I get wrong?

Your [[equally faulty) emotional response of “giving back what was previously done” is a textbook example of human nature. It is not exclusive to any one race or resident of a given area.

Whether you think that statement was emotional is irrelevant. Karma is very much a real thing [[nothing faulty about it) and Warren, deservedly so IMO, is just getting its fair share of it from those who are criticizing it.

[O3H]

With 130,000 residents and 34 square miles
it has it's fair share of nice places and yucky pockets.
The City is quite accessible with major thoroughfares all around.
Modernization out of a purely industrial mindset takes time.

Mound Road will be a vital asset of the new manufacturing/industrial complex
http://innovatemound.org/wp-content/..._narrative.pdf

The Mound Road Industrial Corridor Technology and Innovation [[MTIC)
Project is a partnership of Macomb County, the City of Sterling Heights
and the City of Warren.
-The lead applicant is the Macomb County Department of Roads,
which will administer the project.
Warren and Sterling Heights – the 3rd and 4th largest cities
in Michigan with a combined population of 265,000
are contributing non-federal matching funds to the project
along with the County and will also participate in
decision-making in all phases of the project.

[bust]

With all due respect, people are allowed their opinions, and I believe this forum is just the place to share them.

The moderator deletes threads that are abusive and inappropriate, but as far as I can see everyone here is being pretty civil, for the most part. More civil than the President is on his best days, anyway.

No one has to like this. No one has to like Warren. But there are clearly plenty of people here who do, and plenty of people here with valid critiques, too.

Agree!

We should be comfortable giving and receiving critiques. But critiques, when they are critical, should be constructive in their intent.

I didn't recommend deleting any posts. But I do recommend a few posters reconsider their self-defeating small-minded and snobby and/or prejudiced views.

[Towne Cluber]

No I didn't.

“...the epitome of a city whose existence is owed entirely to mid-century white working class flight based mostly around racism against black people who had the nerve to move into *their* Detroit neighborhoods and attend *their* Detroit schools.

Hell, visit any random place in Warren and you'll hear nothing but derison about Detroit and those "Detroiters."

[Towne Cluber]

And it is also true that Warren was the main destination for working class white people who were fleeing black people in Detroit when it experienced exponential growth to become the city it is today.

As you said, this thread is about Warren not Detroit. If you want to talk about Detroit, start another thread.

[313WX]

So what exactly did I get wrong?

...

^^^So that must mean my comments about Warren were not wrong [[I didn't think they were), since you didn't debunk them...

I'm not why you're being so combative about my comments with respect to Warren, unless I struck a nerve.

[Towne Cluber]

^^^So that must mean my comments about Warren were not wrong [[I didn't think they were), since you didn't debunk them...

I'm not why you're being so combative about my comments with respect to Warren, unless I struck a nerve.

The nerve is that you’re just as bad as those you’re railing against. As others have said, people like you aren’t helping Metro Detroit nor Detroit itself. You’re only further perpetuating the problems. On some level, at least, you seem to like it. You need to get over whatever happened to you in Warren and move on.

[313WX]

The nerve is that you’re just as bad as those you’re railing against...

What does that even mean?

Like I said, being combative and logical fallacies doesn't help whatever point you're trying to make.