Allen Park bucking the inner-ring trend?

[Bham1982]

Berkley Schools which serve Huntington Woods have always performed well and continue to be ranked in the top 10% to 20% of all districts in Michigan. Our local elementary is one of the best ranked in the state.

Yes, but Pleasant Ridge is in Ferndale Schools, which is not a high-ranking district.

And while Berkley Schools are indeed excellent, they're still generally ranked lower than those in newer, affluent suburbs [[places like Troy, Northville, Novi, Rochester, Bloomfield). Yet, at the same time, property appreciation has probably been better in Berkley in recent years [[which speaks to increased appeal of older areas).

[Bham1982]

Bham1982, you are an embarrassment and a complete fraud. You use this forum and topics such as this one to take outright pot shots [[or backhanded comments on a good day) at other people and communities.

I'm a Black Detroiter, but I know just as many [[and almost certainly more) people in the Birmingham-Bloomfield area as you. The funny thing is that none of them act in your pompous manner. The even funnier thing is that they are all more cultured, educated, and affluent than you claim to be. Your act on here is a total sham.

As I said before, you are wrong 75-80% of the time and 100% of your claim that "much of Bloomfield is closer to the Rochester Hills Whole Foods than the Birmingham and West Bloomfield locations" is completely untrue.

Someone needs a nap.

[Bham1982]

I'll be the first to admit that my home in GP would be at least worth double were in in the desirable parts of Oakland County. Does that mean that Grosse Pointe is undesirable? Of course not. A million dollar home in Birmingham would be worth ten times as much for something equivalent in Boston's Back Bay. Birmingham is still a fine place to live.

Thank you. This is all I'm saying.

Bham - you clearly like living in Oakland County, and that is fantastic. But do stop ragging on other's people's neighborhoods.

I actually don't like Oakland County, and I'm not "ragging" on elsewhere. I think the Pointes are better in many ways. I'm just stating truths about relative prices. The fact is that regional wealth has shifted over the last half century.

I live here for family reasons. If I had my druthers I'd be elsewhere. Whether or not I like Oakland County is irrelevant to the fact that property values are higher than elsewhere in the metro and whether there's more crap for affluent people [[which for some bizarre reason people find debatable).

I'm well aware of the region's issues.The whole region is a sprawly mess, Oakland included. There's basically no good urbanity. Birmingham's downtown is a ridiculous caricature of wealth. Everything is falling apart. The entire metro feels 20-30 years behind elsewhere. But none of that has anything to do with whether a 3,000 sq. ft. house apples to apples costs 2-3x in one community over another.

[aj3647]

Allen Park benefited from the fact that it doesn't directly border Detroit, like Melvindale, Lincoln Park, Ecorse, RR, etc. So as those other Downriver cities declined, those with the means and desire to get out who still wanted to live Downriver would flee Lincoln Park or Melvindale and move to Allen Park. Lincoln Park's loss was Allen Park's gain. Much of that retail that is now up on the Hill in Allen Park, at one time, used to be in Lincoln Park.

Allen Park will suffer the same fate as those other cities, it's just a decade or two behind the curve. Eventually it will reach a tipping point, just like with LP, where those with the means to upgrade will get out as they see property values start to decline. Then Allen Park's loss will be Trenton or Livonia's or some other burb's gain. Like someone mentioned earlier, AP is somewhat insulated by having such a large elderly population that provides stability [[those people aren't going to readily move). But those people will mostly be dead in 20 years and they're going to be replaced by younger people who are more transient, less affluent, and increasingly less white.

[Towne Cluber]

Someone needs a nap.

I need a lot more than a nap after seeing some of the stuff that you tried to pull on this thread. You basically saying [[in a backhanded way of course) that Bloomfield Township doesn’t measure up to Birmingham was some next level snobbery at its finest.

[313WX]

The inner ring suburb that bucks all trends is Wyandotte.

The city owns its own utility service, including cable, water, electricity and internet.

they have an aggressive building department that insists on new homes be built with wide front porches in their “tree” neighborhoods.

There's nothing "inner ring" about Wyandotte.

In fact, by Detroit's standards, it's pretty far-flung. Once you get SW of there, you"re practically in the country.

Other than the semi-decent retail/restaurant options around Southgate Mall and the Airport, everything else is so far away.

[gnome]

There's nothing "inner ring" about Wyandotte.

In fact, by Detroit's standards, it's pretty far-flung. Once you get SW of there, you"re practically in the country.

Other than the semi-decent retail/restaurant options around Southgate Mall and the Airport, everything else is so far away.

Wha? Allen Park is 13 miles from Detroit, Wyandotte is 11 miles.

At least according to google maps, but I’m sure everyone defines things differently.

For example, you find yourself in Chicago and someone asks, “Where are you from?” If you are from Wyandotte or Melvindale or Farmington you are going to say, “Detroit” just to shorthand the conversation; unless of course, you are Bham1992 then you’re going to crush any possible conversation by slicing the region into self-defined psycho/sexual/economic groups or predilections.

But sure, I’ll roll with the shocking news that Wyandotte ain’t an inner-ring suburb despite the fact it derives much of its identity as being the capital of Downriver... downriver from where? Oh, right, River Rouge.

Thanks for cleaning that up. Sure adds to the conversation and helps elucidates the thinking about suburbs who are bucking whatever trend someone decides is a trend.

[313WX]

Inner ring to me implies sharing a border with Detroit. So basically, that would Dearborn, Warren, Eastpointe, Grosse Pointe, Redford, Southfield, River Rouge, etc.

Wyandotte is another ring further out than Allen Park [[and I don't even agree with calling it "inner ring," as that's quite the stretch).

People in Sterling Heights may claim Detroit too, but that still doesn't change the fact that, like Wyandotte, it's an mid-ring suburb at best. Who gives a fuck about it being the "capital of Downriver" or whatever

[gnome]

“Who gives a fuck?”

Maybe Wyandotters or Wyandottettes orWyandotarians.

By your definition, a suburb has to touch the City limits, a few of the Pointes quality.

Discussion over. Thanks, man.

[313WX]

...By your definition, a suburb has to touch the City limits...

That's not what I said.

[Ray1936]

In my view, Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb counties are one community. Everything outside is on their own, except for possibly Essex.

[gnome]

Inner ring to me implies sharing a border with Detroit...

Oh, ok, as long as they’re not touching, wait. What?

[313WX]

Oh, ok, as long as they’re not touching, wait. What?

Not all suburbs are inner ring.

Wyandotte is one of those suburbs that are not inner ring.

[gnome]

But Allen Park is?

I’m going back to Palmer Woods because that place has more in common with Bloomfield than Brightmore.

At least I can make sense of that instead of trying to aim for moving goalposts.

[p1acebo]

In my view, Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb counties are one community. Everything outside is on their own, except for possibly Essex.

Wouldn't that just be called the tri-county area? I mean I agree with you, I think that encompasses the majority of "metro-Detroit."

[313WX]

But Allen Park is?
.

I literally said earlier that I also don't agree with calling Allen Park "inner ring,"

[Bham1982]

To me, inner ring would be defined as something like "largely built out no later than the postwar era". The first wave of autocentric sprawl.

So places like Livonia and Allen Park would count, regardless of whether they touch Detroit.

And the older inner streetcar suburbs, places like Wyandotte, Birmingham, Farmington, would probably count, but more iffy [[what do you do with small older towns later enveloped by sprawl, like Northville or Plymouth? Those certainly aren't "inner ring").

[masterblaster]

There's nothing "inner ring" about Wyandotte.

In fact, by Detroit's standards, it's pretty far-flung. Once you get SW of there, you"re practically in the country.

You are not correct. Like Gnome said, downtown Wyandotte is only 11 miles from downtown Detroit. If driving along Fort Street, there is only 1 suburb between Detroit and Wyandotte - Lincoln Park. For reference, the northern border of Ferndale is 11 miles from downtown. And Wyandotte is not that close to "country". You have to go through Riverview, then Trenton, before you start seeing "country".

Just because a suburb does not touch Detroit does not preclude it from being inner ring. Like Bham said, it is the also the TIMEFRAME in which these suburbs grew that determines it. Suburbs that don't touch Detroit like St. Clair Shores, Roseville, Allen Park all BOOMED in the 1950's and 1960's - when suburbanization really started to take off. Suburbs like Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield and Sterling Heights are the next ring.

[313WX]

And Wyandotte is not that close to "country". You have to go through Riverview, then Trenton, before you start seeing "country"...

Development along I-75 and Telegraph drops off pretty drastically south of Eureka. Same thing going west of Telegraph.

Riverview and Trenton, which are closer to the river, are exurban at best.

Just because a suburb does not touch Detroit does not preclude it from being inner ring. Like Bham said, it is the also the TIMEFRAME in which these suburbs grew that determines it. Suburbs that don't touch Detroit like St. Clair Shores, Roseville, Allen Park all BOOMED in the 1950's and 1960's - when suburbanization really started to take off. Suburbs like Farmington Hills and West Bloomfield and Sterling Heights are the next ring.

The standard way to define suburban rings is proximity to the city, not era of development.

[mtburb]

Development along I-75 and Telegraph drops off pretty drastically south of Eureka.

It may become slightly rural south of Eureka, you still have suburban development all the way south to the Wayne-Monroe line, where Telegraph goes through the heart of Flat Rock and I-75 goes through the Rockwoods, which are considered to be much of the southernmost reaches of Detroit sprawl.

After going into Monroe County though, it does become rural heading south, with the exception of Monroe and some intersections here and there, until you're almost at the Ohio line.

It should be noted as well that neither Telegraph nor I-75 go anywhere close to Wyandotte.

[gnome]

Anyone remember making up baseball rules in your backyard as a kid?

Terms, rules, ghost runners, using the ball wrapped in electric tape or the one without its cover


Everything changed depending on who was batting, whose house ...

[Ray1936]

Terms, rules, ghost runners, using the ball wrapped in electric tape or the one without its cover.

Only it wasn't modern, sleek "electrical tape" in my day. That wasn't invented yet. It was called "friction tape", which welded together as much from friction of the fabric as was sticky stuff. You really poked a very old memory............thanks!

[gnome]

Only it wasn't modern, sleek "electrical tape" in my day. That wasn't invented yet. It was called "friction tape", which welded together as much from friction of the fabric as was sticky stuff. You really poked a very old memory............thanks!

A few years back I was redoing an older home that had some updates throughout the years. In the switches the had modern plastic electrical tape, the tape had hardened and became brittle; in the switches that had the old friction tape, it was still supple if not slightly gummy.

Now I only use friction tape. That plastic junk is a fire waiting to happen.

And it can still wrap a baseball.

[MicrosoftFan]

Development along I-75 and Telegraph drops off pretty drastically south of Eureka. Same thing going west of Telegraph.

Riverview and Trenton, which are closer to the river, are exurban at best.

Riverview is about as exurban as Roseville is. Riverview is a middle ring suburb, while Trenton could be considered the next ring. You don’t get into exurban territory until you hit Woodhaven or Flat Rock.

[mtburb]

Riverview is about as exurban as Roseville is. Riverview is a middle ring suburb, while Trenton could be considered the next ring. You don’t get into exurban territory until you hit Woodhaven or Flat Rock.

But head south on Jefferson from downtown Trenton and once you pass the power plant the surroundings do begin to turn a bit rural.

This continues once you cross into Gibraltar, but even that is exurban, even though almost all of the developed areas are east of Jefferson. Half of that is on four canal-separated islands which provide some of the best views of any suburban property in southeast Michigan, with virtually all even including docks in their backyards allowing those residents, if they want, to take their boats up to Detroit or Wyandotte or south to spend a day in Toledo or the Lake Erie Islands or Sandusky or even further afield in Cleveland, and if they have passports, they can even skim over to Amherstburg.