Allen Park bucking the inner-ring trend?

[MicrosoftFan]

Much has been said about the decline of inner-ring suburbs in Detroit. Most of it is true- Eastpointe, Melvindale, Harper Woods, Garden City, etc. just aren't what they used to be. Outside of Dearborn and GP, nearly every inner ring suburb is declining. Allen Park might be a notable exception. It's not doing bad or great- it's doing fine.

Allen Park's stable position is best viewed when compared with its neighbor, Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park has two leveled shopping centers, dying retail corridors, and dilapidated housing in the northern sections. LP, it's worth mentioning, has a school district that's fallen off a cliff in the past few years. Carr and Hoover schools, which are closer to Wyandotte, remain fine; the rest are looking worse by the day.

It's also worth mentioning that Allen Park, while not bordering the city of Detroit, has a lot in common with other 1950s built inner ring communities such as Lincoln Park, Redford, and Eastpointe. It probably has more in common with these communities than Melvindale, which has its roots in housing Rouge plant workers in sided bungalows.

Allen Park is not a growing or thriving suburb by any means [[as much of the population is getting older and dying out), but there isn't much evidence to say it's declining. The city remains composed of small, well-kept brick homes on tree lined streets. Shopping options on "The Hill" are plentiful and are growing. Ford and other engineering companies maintain white-collar offices in the city. Perhaps the most interesting part of Allen Park's relative stability is its school district. Allen Park High School is second-best to only Woodhaven High School in mainland Downriver.

Allen Park also remains stubbornly white. The city has gone from 95% white in 2000, to 92% in 2010, to 87% now. Melvindale has dropped from 87% to 57% in that time, and LP from 93% to 70%. The school district, which in inner ring suburbs is usually less white than the city itself, is 87% white. Even the hispanic population, which is surging in Melvindale and LP, is just 9%.

Overall, AP has resisted the downward trend of other inner-ring communities. The question, of course, is why?

[Ray1936]

I think a key issue is home construction. Nearly all of AP homes are built solidly of brick [[well, okay, face brick, but that's okay), while so many of the post-WWII homes in the inner circle were frame with asbestos siding -- now covered with aluminum.

Home quality is what destroyed much of Detroit following "the war". They threw up 2-bedrooms frame homes as fast as they could build them, and the long-term quality just wasn't there.

Hey, I had one of those asbestos-shingle places for 20 years on Lindsay, north of Pembroke. That neighborhood does not look that good today, from what I can see on Google street view.

[Towne Cluber]

Good housing stock, more affluent residents, better schools, good restaurant/retail mix, and a more stable tax base.

[masterblaster]

I propose:

-Spillover from Ford Motor Company's Dearborn facilities

-Detroit Lions Facility [[so lots of tax revenue from Ford and Lions)

-Not directly touching Detroit

-I wonder if it's intact and mildly charming Main Street has helped it all?

[poobert]

I propose:

-Spillover from Ford Motor Company's Dearborn facilities

-Detroit Lions Facility [[so lots of tax revenue from Ford and Lions)

-Not directly touching Detroit

-I wonder if it's intact and mildly charming Main Street has helped it all?

Anecdotal, but I believe St. Clair Shores is the eastside version of Allen Park.

Keep in mind both areas have lost population, though somewhat modestly, for decades and continue to. I don't really care enough to look it up but I bet they skew older and it will be telling to see what happens as that generation passes or moves.

People tend to self-segregate, too. I mean, to somewhat disagree with Bham's point, I really don't think Jewish people would be persecuted in the Pointes, but was actually talking to a Jewish friend a few years ago about this who said "We just don't live in the Pointes." If their family and community is already well established in NW Oakland, why would they move someplace without a temple or good deli?

Similarly, Allen Park and SCS are where the lower middle class and upper working class white-ethnic and hillbilly second and third generations tend to live. More often then not they then will have extended family and other generations in the same area.

The migration patterns in metro Detroit are pretty consistent and interesting.

[detroittrader]

Outside of Dearborn and GP, nearly every inner ring suburb is declining.

Can you provide a source for this quote? Thanks!

[Gistok]

Doesn't anyone remember the state takeover of Allen Park finances and its' receivership after the failed 2009 Movie Production Studio fiasco? The residents there will be paying millions for years.....

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...udio/18594027/

[Seven&wyo]

I don't really agree that every Inner-ring suburb is failing. Hazel Park, Ferndale, Southfield[[not booming but failing either), Novi and Farmington are all doing good. Livonia, Redford and Dearborn all seem to be doing pretty well and maintaining their middle class. It seem the fat Southwest [[LP, ecorse and RR) Isnt doing all that good, but were they ever? The problem to me it seems like the Eastside is declining the most. Outside of GP who the fuck would want to live in Warren,Eastpointe or Roseville? Sorry to sound insulting, just my 2 cents.

[Bham1982]

Allen Park has very low property values. It may be stable-ish, but not thriving. Yes, it's better than Lincoln Park, but that's not saying much.

Also, many inner suburbs are stable or thriving. Obviously everything touching the Woodward corridor north of 8 Mile is doing well.

And I disagree that Dearborn is stable. It's generally less desirable than 20 years ago. The "fancy" part of Dearborn near the golf club is very cheap. Anecdotal, but a family I know with one of the biggest homes [[a mint-condition 4,000 sq. ft. stunner) had a bear of a time getting their home sold. It basically sold for the price of a bungalow in Royal Oak.

And GP, while still very nice, is in relative decline. It had the most expensive homes and greatest concentration of wealth in Metro Detroit through the 70's. Now the same home would cost 3x as much in affluent parts of Oakland County. There's very limited retail, restaurant or services, and unless you work downtown the Pointes aren't really on the radar. Also not considered welcoming to non-WASPs. How many Jews, Chaldeans and Asians live in the Pointes compared to, say, West Bloomfield?

[MrMichigan]

There's very limited retail, restaurant or services, and unless you work downtown the Pointes aren't really on the radar.

Limited big box stores obviously, but the rest is a stretch.

[Bham1982]

Limited big box stores obviously, but the rest is a stretch.

I think the reverse is generally true. The Pointes have decent access to big box stores, but very limited retail/restaurants/services.

How many destination/special occasion restaurants are in the Pointes compared to upscale areas in Oakland? How many higher-end retailers? Nicer hotels? Elective medical practices like dermatologists or plastic surgeons? Upscale gyms? How many interesting ethnic markets or bakeries?

If you're in, say, Bloomfield, you have three Whole Foods, two Plum Markets, two Papa Joes and two Holiday Markets within a few minutes. In the Pointes there's nothing. For gyms you have multiple Lifetimes, multiple LA Fitness and even Equinox. For shopping you have Somerset, Orchard Lake Road, Telegraph, Woodward, Maple, etc. For dining you have upwards of dozen high-end steakhouses. You have three French bakeries within a mile of downtown Bham. You have kosher everything in WB and Indian everything to the west.

The Pointes have really nice homes, but not a lot of nearby "stuff" serving a higher-income demographic. It's a place to nest, not really a place to consume. On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types. And no traffic congestion.

[MrMichigan]

Bham, you should check out the Pointe's downtowns. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[LongGone06]

On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types.

Agreed. Since the 1980s [[perhaps longer), the Pointes and Oakland have been singled out as good examples of the differences between old money and new, which is perceived to be more ostentatious. I think your overall analysis is correct. The Pointes have gradually become islands of relative wealth surrounded by areas in decline, while Oakland continues to grow. There are, however, some nice shops in the commercial districts along Kercheval.

[cmubryan]

I think the reverse is generally true. The Pointes have decent access to big box stores, but very limited retail/restaurants/services.

How many destination/special occasion restaurants are in the Pointes compared to upscale areas in Oakland? How many higher-end retailers? Nicer hotels? Elective medical practices like dermatologists or plastic surgeons? Upscale gyms? How many interesting ethnic markets or bakeries?

If you're in, say, Bloomfield, you have three Whole Foods, two Plum Markets, two Papa Joes and two Holiday Markets within a few minutes. In the Pointes there's nothing. For gyms you have multiple Lifetimes, multiple LA Fitness and even Equinox. For shopping you have Somerset, Orchard Lake Road, Telegraph, Woodward, Maple, etc. For dining you have upwards of dozen high-end steakhouses. You have three French bakeries within a mile of downtown Bham. You have kosher everything in WB and Indian everything to the west.

The Pointes have really nice homes, but not a lot of nearby "stuff" serving a higher-income demographic. It's a place to nest, not really a place to consume. On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types. And no traffic congestion.

Where’s the third Whole Foods? I know of one in Birmingham and one in West Bloomfield?

There are two Kosher restaurants in West Bloomfield: Milk and Honey in the JCC and one at Walnut and Drake, name escapes me. There are several in Oak Park however.

The area you describe is much larger than “The Pointes.” Bloomfield/Birmingham/West Bloomfield is combined 72+ square miles versus The Pointes which is what? 10?

[hybridy]

Where’s the third Whole Foods? I know of one in Birmingham and one in West Bloomfield?

There are two Kosher restaurants in West Bloomfield: Milk and Honey in the JCC and one at Walnut and Drake, name escapes me. There are several in Oak Park however.

The area you describe is much larger than “The Pointes.” Bloomfield/Birmingham/West Bloomfield is combined 72+ square miles versus The Pointes which is what? 10?

there's a TJ's and newish Ninos on Telegraph @ Maple

[Bham1982]

Where’s the third Whole Foods? I know of one in Birmingham and one in West Bloomfield?

There's a third WF in Rochester Hills.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Where’s the third Whole Foods? I know of one in Birmingham and one in West Bloomfield?

There are two Kosher restaurants in West Bloomfield: Milk and Honey in the JCC and one at Walnut and Drake, name escapes me. There are several in Oak Park however.

The area you describe is much larger than “The Pointes.” Bloomfield/Birmingham/West Bloomfield is combined 72+ square miles versus The Pointes which is what? 10?

Isn't the Stage Deli on Orchard Lake near Maple in WB, considered a Kosher restaurant?

[313WX]

I think the reverse is generally true. The Pointes have decent access to big box stores, but very limited retail/restaurants/services.

How many destination/special occasion restaurants are in the Pointes compared to upscale areas in Oakland? How many higher-end retailers? Nicer hotels? Elective medical practices like dermatologists or plastic surgeons? Upscale gyms? How many interesting ethnic markets or bakeries?

If you're in, say, Bloomfield, you have three Whole Foods, two Plum Markets, two Papa Joes and two Holiday Markets within a few minutes. In the Pointes there's nothing. For gyms you have multiple Lifetimes, multiple LA Fitness and even Equinox. For shopping you have Somerset, Orchard Lake Road, Telegraph, Woodward, Maple, etc. For dining you have upwards of dozen high-end steakhouses. You have three French bakeries within a mile of downtown Bham. You have kosher everything in WB and Indian everything to the west.

The Pointes have really nice homes, but not a lot of nearby "stuff" serving a higher-income demographic. It's a place to nest, not really a place to consume. On the positive side, it's less of a "Keeping up with the Jones" feel and there are FAR fewer poseur types. And no traffic congestion.

GP It's kind of like the Peachtree City of Metro Detroit. Merely a bedroom community for people who work elsewhere. It lacks the population density, interstate connectivity and corporate presence that Oakland County has to support a ton of commercial establishments. In comparison, with Troy [[one of the shopping/restaurant hubs of Oakland County), you have 80,000 people who live there alone, and that's not including the people it pulls from Sterling Heights, Royal Oak, Madison Heights, etc. [[another probably 100,000 people there) nor all of the highly paid workers in the offices along Big Beaver Road, nor people traveling north/south on I-75 who may want to stop to do some shopping or get a bite to eat. And the few big box stores that would like to enter GP's market wouldn't be able to find the land to do so, since it's fully built out and the zoning laws prevent such developments.

Even parts of working class Macomb County [[Roseville) and Downriver [[Southgate) have better retail/restaurant options because of a much higher population density, more undeveloped land and the pass-through interstate traffic.

As far as Allen Park, it benefits from connectivity to two major interstate highways, a major state highway as well as having a major F100 company with operations within its borders. It's comparable to the north side of Warren.

[gpp1004]

And GP, while still very nice, is in relative decline. It had the most expensive homes and greatest concentration of wealth in Metro Detroit through the 70's. Now the same home would cost 3x as much in affluent parts of Oakland County. There's very limited retail, restaurant or services, and unless you work downtown the Pointes aren't really on the radar. Also not considered welcoming to non-WASPs. How many Jews, Chaldeans and Asians live in the Pointes compared to, say, West Bloomfield?

This is silly. Relative decline? Compared to when? Heck, I'll go back further than 1970. GP's wealth heyday was the 1920s and 1930s. By the 1970s nearly all of the big mansions had been torn down and replaced with upper middle class tract subdivisions [[which are still upper middle class).

Our retail, while not to the extent Bham, Bloomfield, yadda, is perfectly adequate for the size of the Pointes and far from 'very limited.' If you'd like specific examples, I'd be happy to provide, but it looks like others have already addressed this.

I'm not sure what services you're referring to - our city services are exceptional, likely the finest in metro Detroit [[though we do pay dearly for them in taxes). Public schools are top-notch, usually rated among the public ones in your neighborhood. Doctors, medical specialists, attorneys...take a gander at google maps...plenty along Mack and some on Kercheval.

Finally, Grosse Pointe is one of the most welcoming places I've lived. On our block, there are two gay households [[one of which is my husband and myself), two black families, an Indian family, a Korean family, and two Jewish families. Is it majority white? Yes. Does anyone on our block really give a f***? No. And that's what matters. Oh, and the Pointes host a lgbtq Pride parade every June. When was West Bloomfield's last Pride?

[cmubryan]

Much has been said about the decline of inner-ring suburbs in Detroit. Most of it is true- Eastpointe, Melvindale, Harper Woods, Garden City, etc. just aren't what they used to be. Outside of Dearborn and GP, nearly every inner ring suburb is declining. Allen Park might be a notable exception. It's not doing bad or great- it's doing fine.

Allen Park's stable position is best viewed when compared with its neighbor, Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park has two leveled shopping centers, dying retail corridors, and dilapidated housing in the northern sections. LP, it's worth mentioning, has a school district that's fallen off a cliff in the past few years. Carr and Hoover schools, which are closer to Wyandotte, remain fine; the rest are looking worse by the day.

It's also worth mentioning that Allen Park, while not bordering the city of Detroit, has a lot in common with other 1950s built inner ring communities such as Lincoln Park, Redford, and Eastpointe. It probably has more in common with these communities than Melvindale, which has its roots in housing Rouge plant workers in sided bungalows.

Allen Park is not a growing or thriving suburb by any means [[as much of the population is getting older and dying out), but there isn't much evidence to say it's declining. The city remains composed of small, well-kept brick homes on tree lined streets. Shopping options on "The Hill" are plentiful and are growing. Ford and other engineering companies maintain white-collar offices in the city. Perhaps the most interesting part of Allen Park's relative stability is its school district. Allen Park High School is second-best to only Woodhaven High School in mainland Downriver.

Allen Park also remains stubbornly white. The city has gone from 95% white in 2000, to 92% in 2010, to 87% now. Melvindale has dropped from 87% to 57% in that time, and LP from 93% to 70%. The school district, which in inner ring suburbs is usually less white than the city itself, is 87% white. Even the hispanic population, which is surging in Melvindale and LP, is just 9%.

Overall, AP has resisted the downward trend of other inner-ring communities. The question, of course, is why?

Wow, I take offense to this. I live in Huntington Woods, 2 miles from the inner city and we continue to be on “top” lists for safety, wealth, housing values, etc. Berkley is booming across the street with dozens of new homes under construction at any given point, Oak Park is improving considerably from years ago and has a solid, well-kept, brick housing stock. Royal Oak and Ferndale to my east and south...well I’m not even going to comment except to say you’d have to be living in a hole to not realize they are booming more than ever.

[hybridy]

perhaps allen park is an enclave of semi/full retired ford blue collar workers. many of these people have paid off their homes and children have moved out by now. the recession hindered any prospects for selling homes and relocating. since the neighbors have stayed so then have you, and continue to maintain the home. shopping amenities have improved with the redevelopment of the old VA into fairlane green. drives into downtown for sports games is relatively easy.

as the boomers die off, things may change...population continues to trend down and the city continues to age

By 2040, residents age 65 years and older will comprise more than a fourth of Allen Park’s population.Comparatively, the segments of school-aged children are expected to decrease.

https://www.cityofallenpark.org/geta...shing.pdf.aspx

[casscorridor]

on the whole, metropolitan Detroit is in decline, or at the very best in a period of indefinite stagnation

there's a lot of places 'holding on', or 'scraping by', or 'stable'

there's a lot of places in outright decline

there's a handful of small pockets in which growth is occurring

[DetBill]

G.P. is by no means in “ decline “ . Its still, as always, its own enclave, but its real estate moves quickly, and its downtown areas are doing quite well..
Good friends just sold their house for 150,000 more than what they paid for it 5 years ago, with little improvements and in six days, bought another place in G.P. Its a very solid area, good schools, conveniences, no crazy freeway congestion and many who work downtown, especially with kids, enjoy the 15 minute drive to work and back home... Its a great option for them, they all say they feel very connected to the city, downtown and midtown, and all they offer.

[EastsideAl]

G.P. is by no means in “ decline “ . Its still, as always, its own enclave, but its real estate moves quickly, and its downtown areas are doing quite well..
Good friends just sold their house for 150,000 more than what they paid for it 5 years ago, with little improvements and in six days, bought another place in G.P. Its a very solid area, good schools, conveniences, no crazy freeway congestion and many who work downtown, especially with kids, enjoy the 15 minute drive to work and back home... Its a great option for them, they all say they feel very connected to the city, downtown and midtown, and all they offer.

I agree with this completely. My cousin's house in GPF just sold for nearly twice what he paid for it 9 years ago [[GM sent him back overseas). GP is though culturally and historically different from OC, despite being broadly similar economically. It doesn't have several of the things Bham mentioned because there is just not that much market for them there.

For instance, it's long been noted that the restaurant business can be a bit of a struggle in GP, because GPers eat at home and there has never developed much of a "going out" culture there. That situation has changed a bit, but my friends and relatives there are still much more likely to invite people over for dinner rather than going out with them. If folks there do go out, they tend to go to places that are on the higher end of casual with familiar food, rather than fine dining or ethnic cuisines or fashionable destination restaurants. These days, if they want a more exciting or adventurous experience, they will to go to places in and around downtown Detroit.

The GPs are smaller and more isolated than the wealthier parts of OC, with much less through traffic from the outside, since because of the lake they really aren't on the way to anywhere other than SCS. GPers I know generally love their cozy shopping etc. areas on Kercheval and Mack [[and Kercheval is, in fact, still quite similar to what Birmingham was like until the '80s). They would be aghast and unhappy if something like downtown Royal Oak began happening there. But none of that means that the place is in decline, just different.

[Bham1982]

For instance, it's long been noted that the restaurant business can be a bit of a struggle in GP, because GPers eat at home and there has never developed much of a "going out" culture there. That situation has changed a bit, but my friends and relatives there are still much more likely to invite people over for dinner rather than going out with them. If folks there do go out, they tend to go to places that are on the higher end of casual with familiar food, rather than fine dining or ethnic cuisines or fashionable destination restaurants. These days, if they want a more exciting or adventurous experience, they will to go to places in and around downtown Detroit.

This is a good point. The explosion of downtown Detroit dining probably has a significant degree of patronage from the Pointes, and lessens the need for local options.

Obviously Oakland County residents patronize downtown restaurants too, but they aren't really dependent on downtown. The options along the Woodward Corridor in Oakland, from Ferndale to Bloomfield, east to Troy and west to Novi, are pretty extensive.

GPers I know generally love their cozy shopping etc. areas on Kercheval and Mack [[and Kercheval is, in fact, still quite similar to what Birmingham was like until the '80s). They would be aghast and unhappy if something like downtown Royal Oak began happening there. But none of that means that the place is in decline, just different.

They're much smaller, though. The Hill and the Village, while charming, are very small compared to Bham and RO, and that's not accounting for Ferndale, Berkley, Clawson.

Another difference is that the Hill and Village are for GP residents, and reflect their tastes. Downtown Bham and RO aren't really representative of their respective cities.

Downtown Bham is full of poseur types from elsewhere in glitzy cars and flashy clothes. I'm in a wealthy Bham neighborhood yet my neighbors drive Ford Escapes, shop at Old Navy and belong to the YMCA. I see them in sweatpants and tennis shoes downtown, while the weekend poseur types are in $800 heels and $1,000 dresses.

And downtown RO is a fratastic party every weekend, with yelling, beer-swilling bros from elsewhere, while the actual RO neighborhoods are modest, progressive, and quiet.