GM Poletown and Warren Transmission shuttering

[Richard]

I caught the tail end of a NPR discussion with Mary,she was saying that nothing is for sure and that they will be looking at the different plants and what and if they will produce when the labor contract negotiations come up.

You guys are more familiar with labor unions and would be able to see where this is going more then myself.

[313WX]

Now how's this for a hot take...

With PSA Groupe having recently established a headquarters in Atlanta to enter the NA Market, wouldn't it be a huge get if they purchased D-Ham for their production?

[313WX]

Meanwhile, in related news, Nashville just seems to stay winning lately [[between landing AllianceBernstein, Amazon and a MLS team)

The GM plant just to the south of the city will actually be getting a new vehicle, a Cadillac Crossover...

https://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...ar/2114341002/

[ABetterDetroit]

This is bad news for the entire metro area and state to lose so much in a single restructuring announcement. The tax base loss is enormous.

I agree with others here that the exiting of the passenger car market in unison by GM, Ford and FCA doesn’t bode well for the future.

The people who are most interested in new drive-train technologies are not driving 4 door 6 row trucks now. The Japanese and the Germans will have the advantage with brand loyalty in passenger car world markets as new tech becomes available.

Committing to large vehicles solely puts all three of them in peril if there is any destabilization to the world oil market. Considering how badly Iranian-Saudi relations are at this point in time, I wouldn’t bank my entire company’s future that a shooting war doesn’t shut down oil exports out of the Persian for a period of time in the next decade. The region is a tinder box waiting for a spark.

[mikefmich]

2008 was a once in 60-year global financial meltdown BTW, a regular cyclical recession which would not even come until after 2020 and would be nothing like it.

Perhaps you missed 1980?

[Zacha341]

Hah! Interesting point. Difference is that Jennifer Granholm was gov for eight years and by say year five she owned her choices and policies; not all inherited from previous admin.

And, just watch, in 4 yrs, this will ALL be Gretchen Whitmer's fault. No one will remember that whatever happens started under Snyder, and Trump. Nope, just another damned Dem.

[Pat001]

Blaming tariffs is just a smoke screen for GM's bad management. The models they're dropping weren't selling before tariffs. If GM built cars and trucks people wanted to buy, people would buy them - without profit-killing rebates or zero percent loans.

The real scandal is the fact that in addition to millions in tax breaks, over 1,000 homes, a half dozen churches and 100 businesses were bulldozed or moved to accommodate the GM Poletown plant which didn't create new jobs, just preserved existing jobs. Thanks, GM.

And don't forget GM recently started building Buicks in China for sale in the U.S. Creating jobs in China is not what the taxpayers had in mind when GM got those government loan guarantees that saved them from bankruptcy.

[401don]

[QUOTE=Pat001;560421]Blaming tariffs is just a smoke screen for GM's bad management. The models they're dropping weren't selling before tariffs. Build cars and trucks people want to buy and they will buy them - without profit-killing rebates or zero percent loans.

Maybe, maybe not. Remember the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix? Same car yet the Toyota outsold the Vibe about 3 or 4 to 1. A large segment of the population will never buy North American.

[Bham1982]

Sorry ass midget mobiles, all of them, worthless if you're 6' 4", 34" inseam, and have no leg room in these crap boxes.

Only about 3.9% of U.S. men are 6'2"" or taller, so irrelevant. At 6'4" you're talking a tiny proportion of U.S. adults [[<1%)

And you do realize that countries with much taller adults [[say Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Germany) drive much smaller cars, right?

Metro Detroit favors gigantic cars, usually much crappier than the smaller cars favored in other first world countries or in coastal metros. And newsflash: a Corolla or Accord might be boxy/boring, but they're very reliable, and a car is, above all, a tool, where reliability counts more than anything else.

They also aren't small cars; they're just considered small in the U.S. where anything smaller than an F-150 or Tahoe is considered small these days. In most of the world, they consider Escapes or CRVs to be really big cars.

[Colombian Dan]

End all tax abatements for corporations. Increase tariffs on all imports. Let Poletown be an example for all corporate welfare projects. America needs to stop subsidizing corrupt 3rd world economies. And not one dime more for the automotive companies, no more bailouts.

[oladub]

NAFTA was something that Reagan ran for president on and the proposal was finalized during the first Bush administration. All Clinton did was sign a done deal. So yeah, you're wrong again.

Clinton made it happen. Clinton pulled the trigger. No one put a gun to his head.

The biggest beneficiaries of of Obama's cash for clunkers program in terms of sales' upticks were Korean manufacturers. His bailout of GM put Hummer, Saturn, and Pontiac workers as well as employees of hundreds of GM dealerships out of work. GM was then able to invest a billion dollars in Chinese factories and now imports Buick engines, Buick Envisions, and plug in Cadillacs. No wonder GM doesn't like Trump's tariffs.

Electric vehicles are the future. They have fewer parts; no transmissions for starters. EV's have fewer parts to break down and replace. EV's are greener. Fewer workers are needed to make them. Robotics will further reduce the need for auto workers.

The Big 2.5 always eliminate small car production when gas prices are and unemployment are low to focus on making higher profit larger vehicles. Three years later during the next recession, we read recycled articles about how foreign manufacturers are better surviving the recession because they offer a wider variety of small, inexpensive, high gas milage cars. There is no learning curve.

Also, those who buy foreign autos, or technically - foreign content, management, and ownership, create Flints.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...cid=spartandhp

CEO Mary Barra explains her decision to shutter plants and cars...

[LongGone06]

"How does that disprove 401don's point?"

I interpreted 401don's comment to mean that people simply were not buying domestic sedans [[which seems to be supported by comment #58). The entire segment is, unfortunately, declining. Personally, I prefer driving a sedan and have little interest in a crossover.

[Honky Tonk]

Perhaps you missed 1980?

Sure did, wasn't even born yet.

[CassTechGrad]

My grandmother’s old house was on 2124 Adele Street, between Chene and St. Aubin in old Poletown. Mayor Young took it along with everything else back in the 80’s so now that the plant is closing, will the city give her property back to my family? It’s buried under the south parking lot and I’ll bet if they dig up the concrete everything is still there just like I remember it! Like old ruins that they find in a modern city when there’re digging for some public works project. I’ll bet my dad’s old bicycle is still down there somewhere!

[313WX]

"How does that disprove 401don's point?"

I interpreted 401don's comment to mean that people simply were not buying domestic sedans [[which seems to be supported by comment #58). The entire segment is, unfortunately, declining. Personally, I prefer driving a sedan and have little interest in a crossover.

But I think the point was foreign sedans are still outselling Domestic sedans by a sizable margin and the foreighn automakers are still able to make them at enough of a profit that they're not killing them off.

[313WX]

My grandmother’s old house was on 2124 Adele Street, between Chene and St. Aubin in old Poletown. Mayor Young took it along with everything else back in the 80’s so now that the plant is closing, will the city give her property back to my family? It’s buried under the south parking lot and I’ll bet if they dig up the concrete everything is still there just like I remember it! Like old ruins that they find in a modern city when there’re digging for some public works project. I’ll bet my dad’s old bicycle is still down there somewhere!

Sure, as soon as they give the families who lived in Black Bottom/Paradise Valley their property back after it was plowed down for the failed and sooned to be decommissioned I-375.

[Honky Tonk]

Sorry ass midget mobiles, all of them, worthless if you're 6' 4", 34" inseam, and have no leg room in these crap boxes.

Bear, I own an American made "mid-size" [[though it's large to me) sedan, and it isn't any better. No stretch-out leg room. I have friends that own large mom-mobiles, [[Thanx Meddle) and large pick-em up trucks, same same. The vehicles are large on the outside but short on leg room and comfort.

[Pat001]

GM has wrecked more cities than Godzilla.

[poobert]

Metro Detroit favors gigantic cars, usually much crappier than the smaller cars favored in other first world countries or in coastal metros. And newsflash: a Corolla or Accord might be boxy/boring, but they're very reliable, and a car is, above all, a tool, where reliability counts more than anything else.

There is something to this. I'm getting fed up with American cars because every one I've owned - i.e. every car I've owned - seems to need monthly visits to the repair shop. Eventually I give up and the check engine light just remains on until total implosion.

Somehow the domestic automakers still get decent rankings [[sometimes) and even win awards for reliability but all my friends with foreign cars don't seem to share the same hassles. There must be something to it, though. Leave Michigan and 9 out of 10 cars are foreign brands.

[Zacha341]

Yes, I was just in a popular southern state/ city and it was incredible how many Chevy's I saw -- LIKE hardly none. The brand comes off cheap. Buick is keeper, very nice but Kia and Toyota are 'killing-it' in sales as they say.

Yeah Hammy GM Plant a ghost town. Very sad. So much sacrificed for this?

The real scandal is the fact that in addition to millions in tax breaks, over 1,000 homes, a half dozen churches and 100 businesses were bulldozed or moved to accommodate the GM Poletown plant which didn't create new jobs, just preserved existing jobs. Thanks, GM.

[Zacha341]

I've purchased Toyota for decades [[USED not new) finding them at the ten year plus level very durable if not very versatile in style. However, I don't romanticize foreign cars -- avoiding European cars as they can become real tinker-mobiles and ultra expensive to repair.

I was recently considering a GM sedan [[Chevy Malibu) and it was just so cheap and rattly I had to go another direction. If I were purchasing new I'd consider a Buick but not enough people are. And the ticking engine noises I hear out of too many newer Chrysler/ Dodge models tells me something is lacking at the engineering level.

Anyway many mechanics know which cars are the strong runners, which have weak suspension systems, bad trannies, and bad components in general. I find out the model of car to purchase by talking to them.

Leave Michigan and 9 out of 10 cars are foreign brands.

[LongGone06]

I recently turned in a Kia Optima after a three-year lease. Although it was relatively inexpensive and reliable transportation, I grew less impressed with it over time. Purely a subjective preference, of course; but, I turned it in and got something from another brand.

[hybridy]

Kia and Toyota are 'killing-it' in sales as they say.

Toyota i completely understand. Kia...i don't know. I don't understand the appeal. I'll admit their design has come a long way, but whenever I've had one [[rentals) I wasn't impressed. Throw Hyndai into that bucket as well.

i find this to be the most revolting design on the roads today

[bust]

Only about 3.9% of U.S. men are 6'2"" or taller, so irrelevant. At 6'4" you're talking a tiny proportion of U.S. adults [[<1%)

And you do realize that countries with much taller adults [[say Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Germany) drive much smaller cars, right?

Metro Detroit favors gigantic cars, usually much crappier than the smaller cars favored in other first world countries or in coastal metros. And newsflash: a Corolla or Accord might be boxy/boring, but they're very reliable, and a car is, above all, a tool, where reliability counts more than anything else.

They also aren't small cars; they're just considered small in the U.S. where anything smaller than an F-150 or Tahoe is considered small these days. In most of the world, they consider Escapes or CRVs to be really big cars.

And people in most other parts of the world are shorter, on average, than Americans. Heck, most people in the US are shorter, on average, than Detroiters. I'm average height in Detroit and taller than average on the east coast.

Another thing: I don't know what the official statistics are, but it is possible to more conveniently carry cargo in a Corolla than a Ford Ecosport or a Jeep Renegade. The back of an Ecosport can't fit more than a large suitcase and a small carry on bag without losing the back seat. Two large suitcases fit in the trunk of a Corolla without folding the back seat. And even with one side of the rear seat folded down there is still room in back for a car seat and a small adult squeezed in the middle.

The designers of the Ecosport and the Renegade really should have been able to do better than a Corolla.

Meanwhile I have to tilt my head to the side so it doesn't bounce against the roof if I'm in the back seat of a Cadillac, but not in a Corolla.

Design matters, and I'm especially talking about design for utility, not for looks. Yeah, they're boring, but Corollas have utility down pat.

I'd like to buy an American car, but why is it so hard to find one that doesn't suffer from design issues? What would you recommend as the best Detroit-made [[whatever that means any more) alternative to a Corolla?

PS. There are large parts of the world where a Corolla is considered a big car.