Avenue of Fashion

[stasu1213]

How many feel that the Avenue of Fashion is still not meeting it's great potential as being a major walkable shopping destination such as Ferndale, Royal Oak, Grosse Pointe, and Birmingham? The Ave is bordered by two to three middle class communities such as Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods, and Green Acres but the many of the stores on the strip don't attract those in the surrounding communities but cater to those from elsewhere? I know that there is one or two developers who are trying to put something on the strip but I feel that there need to be more

[mwilbert]

How many feel that the Avenue of Fashion is still not meeting it's great potential as being a major walkable shopping destination such as Ferndale, Royal Oak, Grosse Pointe, and Birmingham? The Ave is bordered by two to three middle class communities such as Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods, and Green Acres but the many of the stores on the strip don't attract those in the surrounding communities but cater to those from elsewhere? I know that there is one or two developers who are trying to put something on the strip but I feel that there need to be more

That stretch of Livernois has improved a bit over the past 10-15 years, but it isn't clear to me what the future of those types of retail strips really is. When I was a kid, we walked to Livernois to shop. Nowadays, if they aren't shopping online, people drive to shop, and once they are in the car it isn't much harder to go to Meijer's than it is to go to Mike's Fresh Market or the Good Housekeeping store. And there's not really a lot of exciting shopping on the street. There are some boutiques, but as far as I can tell the most popular businesses on Livernois now are restaurants. There could be more of those.

[Shopgirl]

Yeah, they still have a long way to go. The sidewalks are messed up and they are still a number of vacant properties in the main shopping blocks. It will take some time.

[stasu1213]

Yeah, they still have a long way to go. The sidewalks are messed up and they are still a number of vacant properties in the main shopping blocks. It will take some time.

I had thought that there were money set aside and a plan in place back in 2014 or so to repave the sidewalks along the strip. What had happened to those plans?

[pjbear05]

Remember the Waymark Little House of Pancakes?

[stasu1213]

I see that Biggby had finally open it's doors on Livernois just south of 7 mile

[softailrider]

From what I understand even if you want to shop at any of those places they have unpredictable hours, somethings the stores are open sometimes they’re not. Looks like mostly shitty retail to me anyway.

[313WX]

Detroit still suffers from the problems of an extremely long permitting process, as well as high shrinkage rates, a huge labor force that can't even pass a drug test and ridiculously high insurance rates.

On top of being in an era where retailers aren't expanding into areas that aren't high growth and/or high income, the aforementioned issues make doing business in the city seem very unattractive.

Meijer makes it work only because they're a volume-based retailer that sells stuff at discounted prices, and even they can only run successful stores in Detroit with a format unique to Detroit's challenges.

[Bham1982]

The referenced suburban corridors don't have much retail these days, though. How many retailers are in, say, Ferndale?

Avenue of Fashion would probably only revitalize with restaurants, but Ferndale has a crapload just to the north [[and is safer, better located and more established) and downtown has most of the destination restaurants.

Also, everyone mentions the neighborhoods to the east [[which are indeed quite nice and prosperous) but forgets the other side. Neighborhoods west of Livernois are [[generally speaking) horrible.

[Towne Cluber]

The referenced suburban corridors don't have much retail these days, though. How many retailers are in, say, Ferndale?

Avenue of Fashion would probably only revitalize with restaurants, but Ferndale has a crapload just to the north [[and is safer, better located and more established) and downtown has most of the destination restaurants.

Also, everyone mentions the neighborhoods to the east [[which are indeed quite nice and prosperous) but forgets the other side. Neighborhoods west of Livernois are [[generally speaking) horrible.

The neighborhoods to the immediate west aren’t horrible at all. That’s the University of Detroit Jesuit High School area.

[Bham1982]

The neighborhoods to the immediate west aren’t horrible at all. That’s the University of Detroit Jesuit High School area.

I would definitely disagree. Neighborhoods west of Livernois, are, generally speaking, awful. Tons of abandonment, extremely low property values, extremely high crime.

Not sure what U of D high has to do with anything. You can have a good school within a bad neighborhood. Cass was in the middle of skid row for a half century.

[Towne Cluber]

I would definitely disagree. Neighborhoods west of Livernois, are, generally speaking, awful. Tons of abandonment, extremely low property values, extremely high crime.

Not sure what U of D high has to do with anything. You can have a good school within a bad neighborhood. Cass was in the middle of skid row for a half century.

You’re definitely wrong yet again. The neighborhoods to the west of the Avenue of Fashion section of Livernois definitely aren’t “horrible”.

[Luke09]

I would definitely disagree. Neighborhoods west of Livernois, are, generally speaking, awful. Tons of abandonment, extremely low property values, extremely high crime.

Not sure what U of D high has to do with anything. You can have a good school within a bad neighborhood. Cass was in the middle of skid row for a half century.

Bagley is far from awful, and some of the fastest rising home values in the city. It's in the top 1/3 of the city in terms of income, low crime and housing values.

Livernois/Avenue of Fashion are fine, but could use some new development. What needs improvement is McNichols....all those liquor stores are disgusting and don't help anyone

[Hypestyles]

it has yet to be seen what will be built at the corner of Livernois/7 Mile. residential/retail combo, likely. hopefully the businesses there will be allowed to stay.

[oliverdouglas]

There are no businesses there now. ETA There are no businesses where the project on the corner is.

[Seven&wyo]

If you seriously think the Bagley neighborhood is bad you're a moron it's obvious you've clearly never been there. And there are businesses up and down Livernois to say there isn't is a complete lie. More businesses are opening it's just taking some time.

[Seven&wyo]

So I personally like the messed up sudewalks😎

[stasu1213]

The neighborhoods west of Livernois from 8 mile south to Curtis had deteriorated in the past 30 years and is not as stable as the eastern communities of Livernois which are Green Acres, Sherwood Forest, and Palmer Woods. Those east of Livernois is where the money is at and the residents shop outside of the area. The stores on Livernois are probably supported by those who live on the west side of Livernois and those who live in the surrounding poorer areas. Many of the stores are crappy and I would not shop at those retail. Many of them sell merchandises that they want to sell but not what is needed. I would open a linen and housewares goods store on the strip if I was much younger and had the capita. I would focus on the communities eastside of Livernois. There are two sports stores on the strip. One of them buzzes you in. The other one is so dated that one would wonder how is he surviving. He is rarely opened and his merchandise are from the 80s. The majority of the strip need to be revamped and the community leaders and members of the association groups replaced.

[Seven&wyo]

I own several homes in the area and I'm always surprised by how many are being renovated.

[softailrider]

For a couple of decades before she went into a senior living apartment, I worked with a women who lived on North Cambridge, directly behind U of D high. Her view out her front door was the back of that school. I was at her house numerous times through out the years, her block and the blocks nearby were very nice, virtually all the houses were brick and well kept up.

[Bham1982]

For a couple of decades before she went into a senior living apartment, I worked with a women who lived on North Cambridge, directly behind U of D high. Her view out her front door was the back of that school. I was at her house numerous times through out the years, her block and the blocks nearby were very nice, virtually all the houses were brick and well kept up.

While I don't doubt this is true, what's the point of this anecdote?

I've never been a victim of crime in Detroit, despite doing some pretty inadvisable things during my younger years. So what? It doesn't mean that Detroit isn't a shockingly violent city.

NW Detroit has had crazy high crime and social disorder for 40 years now, and didn't really get rundown looking until very recently. It still has less abandonment than really anywhere else in the city, and obviously the housing stock was built for the upper middle class. But when homes are going for basically nothing, and crime is through the roof, anecdotes are useless.

The black middle class mostly left NW over the last 20 years, so who is gonna buy those homes? Why would any sane person with kids and a decent paycheck willingly live in a shooting gallery instead of some nice neighborhood in, say, Farmington Hills?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

While I don't doubt this is true, what's the point of this anecdote?

I've never been a victim of crime in Detroit, despite doing some pretty inadvisable things during my younger years. So what? It doesn't mean that Detroit isn't a shockingly violent city.

NW Detroit has had crazy high crime and social disorder for 40 years now, and didn't really get rundown looking until very recently. It still has less abandonment than really anywhere else in the city, and obviously the housing stock was built for the upper middle class. But when homes are going for basically nothing, and crime is through the roof, anecdotes are useless.

The black middle class mostly left NW over the last 20 years, so who is gonna buy those homes? Why would any sane person with kids and a decent paycheck willingly live in a shooting gallery instead of some nice neighborhood in, say, Farmington Hills?

Do you say anything positive about Detroit? You continue to live in your suburban bubble, and slam anything or any place outside your enclave. I happen to know plenty of people who have lived in NW Detroit for over 40 years, and have never been victimized by any major crime, no break-ins, car thefts, or armed robberies. Maybe, a vandalism every now and then, but you get that in the suburbs as well. As a matter of fact, I was driving by the area you're talking about a week ago, and it doesn't nearly look as bad, as you make it out to be.

[gpp1004]

The black middle class mostly left NW over the last 20 years, so who is gonna buy those homes? Why would any sane person with kids and a decent paycheck willingly live in a shooting gallery instead of some nice neighborhood in, say, Farmington Hills?

Because many people don't want to live in a suburb that is [[opinion - not fact) unwalkable, primarily low-density residential, and not particularly charming architecturally. When my husband and I moved back to the area from Seattle in 2017, we tried awfully hard to buy in the city. We're both reasonably sane, plan on adopting children in the next two years, and do well for ourselves financially - typical guppies. But banks don't like to approve mortgages for anything north of 500k in Detroit [[which is its own problem). So we ended up just outside of the city in a lovely home that was approved no problem. Farmington Hills - and the rest of Oakland county was never on our radar because it [[again, opinion - not fact) sucks.

[Bham1982]

Because many people don't want to live in a suburb that is [[opinion - not fact) unwalkable, primarily low-density residential, and not particularly charming architecturally.

But the vast majority of Detroit [[city proper) is "unwalkable, primarily low-density residential and not particularly charming architecturally". If you live at 7 & Meyers in NW Detroit, and then move to 9 & Coolidge in Oak Park, it isn't like there's any difference re. these factors.

Walkability might even be a bit more feasible in apples-to-apples burbs, because sidewalks are better maintained, fewer strays and less safety issues. 9 Mile is certainly more walkable than 7 Mile.

And I highly doubt that most people value such factors over safety, schools, taxes, neighbors and access to employment, retail and services. If they really value such things, they wouldn't be in one of the most sprawltastic places on the planet.

[masterblaster]

But the vast majority of Detroit [[city proper) is "unwalkable, primarily low-density residential and not particularly charming architecturally". If you live at 7 & Meyers in NW Detroit, and then move to 9 & Coolidge in Oak Park, it isn't like there's any difference re. these factors.

Walkability might even be a bit more feasible in apples-to-apples burbs, because sidewalks are better maintained, fewer strays and less safety issues. 9 Mile is certainly more walkable than 7 Mile.

And I highly doubt that most people value such factors over safety, schools, taxes, neighbors and access to employment, retail and services. If they really value such things, they wouldn't be in one of the most sprawltastic places on the planet.

1) The neighborhood west of Livernois, east of Wyoming, between 6 Mile and 8 Mile, is called Bagley [[named after the elementary school). This neighborhood has housing stock on par with Rosedale Park and East English Village EXCEPT the area north of Outer Drive. Your cherry-picked link showing the lesser-quality homes north of Outer Drive was not representative of what the majority of the neighborhood looks like.

2) Your article is about a shooting on Appoline Street, a street which is more than 1.5 miles west of Livernois. People in this neighborhood are not walking to the Avenue of Fashion, so it doesn't represent the customer base.

3) West 7 Mile is walkable, lined with storefronts all the way from University of Detroit-Jesuit west to the city limits, while 9 Mile Road in Oak Park is mostly lined with houses and stripmalls.